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After recent faqs one of the warlord traits got changed:

*Page 56 – Impeccable Mobility Change this Warlord Trait to read: ‘Whilst they are within 6" of this Warlord, models in Ravenwing units from your army that have Advanced this turn can treat any Heavy weapons they are equipped with as Assault weapons. In addition, such models do not suffer the penalty for Advancing and firing Assault weapons.’

English is not my first language, but going by RAW, since these heavy weapons are now treated as assault weapons then penalties for advancing are also ignored because of the second sentence.
Additionally you can benefit from combat doctrines for three turns, which huge.

Add another warlord trait for your second talonmaster and you get the best sniper in the game:

*Page 138 – Warlord Traits, Huntsman, rules text Change the first sentence to read: ‘Each time you select a target for a Pistol, Assault, Rapid Fire or Grenade weapon this Warlord is making an attack with, you can ignore the Look Out, Sir rule.

Going by RAW everything seems to be legal, but by RAI its clear that heavy weapons shouldnt get bonuses other than first turn nor should they be allowed to be used with huntsman for any reasons.

You think its RAI that no heavy weapon should be able to target characters ? No one, except GW, knows RAI.

Timur wrote:
After recent faqs one of the warlord traits got changed:

*Page 56 – Impeccable Mobility Change this Warlord Trait to read: ‘Whilst they are within 6" of this Warlord, models in Ravenwing units from your army that have Advanced this turn can treat any Heavy weapons they are equipped with as Assault weapons. In addition, such models do not suffer the penalty for Advancing and firing Assault weapons.’

English is not my first language, but going by RAW, since these heavy weapons are now treated as assault weapons then penalties for advancing are also ignored because of the second sentence.
Additionally you can benefit from combat doctrines for three turns, which huge.

Add another warlord trait for your second talonmaster and you get the best sniper in the game:

*Page 138 – Warlord Traits, Huntsman, rules text Change the first sentence to read: ‘Each time you select a target for a Pistol, Assault, Rapid Fire or Grenade weapon this Warlord is making an attack with, you can ignore the Look Out, Sir rule.

Going by RAW everything seems to be legal, but by RAI its clear that heavy weapons shouldnt get bonuses other than first turn nor should they be allowed to be used with huntsman for any reasons.

Everything seems to work exactly as you say it does. I'm not sure why its 'clear' to you that it wouldn't work that way.

Some people bring up arguments that "treated as" is not equal to "becomes", for example white scars have a stratagem where it says that heavy weapons "become" assault weapons. So "treated as" can might as well mean that heavy weapons are allowed to shoot after advancing using assault weapon rules and thats it, which is i started this post, to hear other peoples opinions on this

Unfortunately GW isnt consistent with their rules writing. Unless they clarify that something like "treated as" has a different meaning than "becomes", it means the same. Heavy weapons use the same rules as assault weapons.

 p5freak wrote:
Unfortunately GW isnt consistent with their rules writing. Unless they clarify that something like "treated as" has a different meaning than "becomes", it means the same. Heavy weapons use the same rules as assault weapons.

yeah that makes sense, but still feels like cheating

 p5freak wrote:
You think its RAI that no heavy weapon should be able to target characters ? No one, except GW, knows RAI.

When it's the sort of firepower a tallon master (twin assualt cannon and heavy bolterl can drop with charictor targeting is brutal. Which was specifically excluded from benifiting from this warlord trait untill they changed the benifit probably without spotting this interaction.

RAW yes it works RAI is probably an oversight.

I just want to point out that you're still hobbled by playing as Dark Angels, so the cheese isn't as mature as people make it out to be.

It's also a huge investment to get an assault cannon to do what a single vindicare could do better for less.

This is just the issue of the WH40k community having this weird knee-jerk reaction of automatically classifying any combo as unfair, no matter how good it actually is.

 Jidmah wrote:
It's also a huge investment to get an assault cannon to do what a single vindicare could do better for less.

This is just the issue of the WH40k community having this weird knee-jerk reaction of automatically classifying any combo as unfair, no matter how good it actually is.

Well, this combo is actually too good to be around for long. Personally i dont think it makes dark angels a top tier faction, but its very likely that GW simply overlooked this interaction, so as soon as they realize this it will get faqed 100%

Timur wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
It's also a huge investment to get an assault cannon to do what a single vindicare could do better for less.

This is just the issue of the WH40k community having this weird knee-jerk reaction of automatically classifying any combo as unfair, no matter how good it actually is.

Well, this combo is actually too good to be around for long. Personally i dont think it makes dark angels a top tier faction, but its very likely that GW simply overlooked this interaction, so as soon as they realize this it will get faqed 100%

So, you need a ravenwing character with Impeccable Mobility warlord trait, and you need a ravenwing talonmaster with the second warlord trait huntsman. Thats almost 300 pts. and 1 CP to be able to snipe characters. For about the same points you get 3 vindicare assassins.

 p5freak wrote:

Timur wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
It's also a huge investment to get an assault cannon to do what a single vindicare could do better for less.

This is just the issue of the WH40k community having this weird knee-jerk reaction of automatically classifying any combo as unfair, no matter how good it actually is.

Well, this combo is actually too good to be around for long. Personally i dont think it makes dark angels a top tier faction, but its very likely that GW simply overlooked this interaction, so as soon as they realize this it will get faqed 100%

So, you need a ravenwing character with Impeccable Mobility warlord trait, and you need a ravenwing talonmaster with the second warlord trait huntsman. Thats almost 300 pts. and 1 CP to be able to snipe characters. For about the same points you get 3 vindicare assassins.

2 talonmasters are actually 360 pts and with this combo you get:
12 shots 6 -2 1
6 shots 5 -2 1
12 shots 6 -2 1 with ability to snipe characters
6 shots 5 -2 1 with ability to snipe characters
All shots will ignore cover and reroll 1s to wound and failed hit rolls because you are gonna have sammael around too.

3 vindicares can only snipe characters, they have no other role, other than sitting on an objective

Those 360 points will be able to kill roughly one lightly armored character per turn, something more durable like a space marine character every other turn and something like a warboss on bike or daemon prince every three turns.

It's a cute trick, but by no means powerful.

 Jidmah wrote:
Those 360 points will be able to kill roughly one lightly armored character per turn, something more durable like a space marine character every other turn and something like a warboss on bike or daemon prince every three turns.

It's a cute trick, but by no means powerful.

After doing some math, yep its roughly one character per turn

But throw in all the re-rolls and and its enough to kill any space marine in 2 turns. But yeah, 3 vindicares will be able to kill him in one.

You don't need two talonmasters, one can be a ravenwing apothecary, or any other ravenwing character.

 p5freak wrote:
You don't need two talonmasters, one can be a ravenwing apothecary, or any other ravenwing character.

thats true, but if you have spare points 2 talonmasters are better than one))

 p5freak wrote:
You don't need two talonmasters, one can be a ravenwing apothecary, or any other ravenwing character.

So like a techmarine, very low points wise, and can heal damage. to the talon

The character has to have the ravenwing keyword and be near the talonmaster to make this work.

 Jidmah wrote:
The character has to have the ravenwing keyword and be near the talonmaster to make this work.

Sure, but that is hardly an issue. you can keep a talonmaster in the back near a Techmarine and still advance and shoot. When you advance you do not have to move the full distannce or really any distance.

 DeathReaper wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
The character has to have the ravenwing keyword and be near the talonmaster to make this work.

Sure, but that is hardly an issue. you can keep a talonmaster in the back near a Techmarine and still advance and shoot. When you advance you do not have to move the full distannce or really any distance.

How far back are you hiding your 24" range gun that needs LoS?

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
The character has to have the ravenwing keyword and be near the talonmaster to make this work.

Sure, but that is hardly an issue. you can keep a talonmaster in the back near a Techmarine and still advance and shoot. When you advance you do not have to move the full distannce or really any distance.

How far back are you hiding your 24" range gun that needs LoS?

Its actually 24 range + 14 mov + 6 from relic + advance = 44 + d6 range

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
The character has to have the ravenwing keyword and be near the talonmaster to make this work.

Sure, but that is hardly an issue. you can keep a talonmaster in the back near a Techmarine and still advance and shoot. When you advance you do not have to move the full distannce or really any distance.

How far back are you hiding your 24" range gun that needs LoS?

28-30 inches away, since you give him the CORVUS OCULUS Relic of Caliban.

Seriously people, go read the rules in question before giving any smart advice.

Impeccable Mobility is for RAVENWING CHARACTERS only, a tech marine, can never, ever be a RAVENWING CHARACTER. Even if he could, he would have to be within 6" of the Talonmaster with the Huntsman trait at the time of shooting, so if you advance towards your target at full speed, you won't be shooting any heavy weapons at it.
And you definitely need the relic on the huntsman talonmaster, otherwise your super-expensive combo will only be hitting on 3s.

 Jidmah wrote:
Seriously people, go read the rules in question before giving any smart advice.

Impeccable Mobility is for RAVENWING CHARACTERS only, a tech marine, can never, ever be a RAVENWING CHARACTER. Even if he could, he would have to be within 6" of the Talonmaster with the Huntsman trait at the time of shooting, so if you advance towards your target at full speed, you won't be shooting any heavy weapons at it.
And you definitely need the relic on the huntsman talonmaster, otherwise your super-expensive combo will only be hitting on 3s.

Sure, a Ravenwing Apothecary then instead of a techmarine (They cost about the same). So it is not a "super-expensive combo" as you say.

And you can advance and stay still... No need to advance anywhere with a 30 inch range on the Talonmaster's weapons.

 DeathReaper wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
Seriously people, go read the rules in question before giving any smart advice.

Impeccable Mobility is for RAVENWING CHARACTERS only, a tech marine, can never, ever be a RAVENWING CHARACTER. Even if he could, he would have to be within 6" of the Talonmaster with the Huntsman trait at the time of shooting, so if you advance towards your target at full speed, you won't be shooting any heavy weapons at it.
And you definitely need the relic on the huntsman talonmaster, otherwise your super-expensive combo will only be hitting on 3s.

Sure, a Ravenwing Apothecary then instead of a techmarine (They cost about the same). So it is not a "super-expensive combo" as you say.

And you can advance and stay still... No need to advance anywhere with a 30 inch range on the Talonmaster's weapons.

Please, please go read the rules before discussing this any further. Advancing is mandatory for the combo to work.

Any yes, 188 for a talon master plus 65 apothecary plus two warlord traits, one relic and 1CP is expensive as feth for just barely being able to kill a captain or chaos lord on average. Especially when you consider that you can remove the combo by just killing either of the characters, which is quite easy to do in 9th.

 Jidmah wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
Seriously people, go read the rules in question before giving any smart advice.

Impeccable Mobility is for RAVENWING CHARACTERS only, a tech marine, can never, ever be a RAVENWING CHARACTER. Even if he could, he would have to be within 6" of the Talonmaster with the Huntsman trait at the time of shooting, so if you advance towards your target at full speed, you won't be shooting any heavy weapons at it.
And you definitely need the relic on the huntsman talonmaster, otherwise your super-expensive combo will only be hitting on 3s.

Sure, a Ravenwing Apothecary then instead of a techmarine (They cost about the same). So it is not a "super-expensive combo" as you say.

And you can advance and stay still... No need to advance anywhere with a 30 inch range on the Talonmaster's weapons.

Please, please go read the rules before discussing this any further. Advancing is mandatory for the combo to work.

Any yes, 188 for a talon master plus 65 apothecary plus two warlord traits, one relic and 1CP is expensive as feth for just barely being able to kill a captain or chaos lord on average. Especially when you consider that you can remove the combo by just killing either of the characters, which is quite easy to do in 9th.

And how are you gonna kill any of them? When there are two talonmasters near each other you cannot shoot at them, unless they are the closest units

 Jidmah wrote:
Please, please go read the rules before discussing this any further. Advancing is mandatory for the combo to work.

I have read the rules. I know Advancing is mandatory for the combo to work. Have you not read my posts? Please go read my posts before replying further. (I literally said "you can advance and stay still... No need to advance anywhere with a 30 inch range on the Talonmaster's weapons..") "No need to advance anywhere" means you can use the advance move and go 0 inches.

Do you realize you can advance and move 1 inch?

Do you realize you can advance and not actually move at all?

When you advance you roll a D6 and add the result in inches to the Move (M) Characteristic. Then each model in that unit can move a distance in inches equal to or less than that total.

0 inches is equal to or less than that total, so you do not have to go anywhere when you advance.

Any yes, 188 for a talon master plus 65 apothecary plus two warlord traits, one relic and 1CP is expensive as feth for just barely being able to kill a captain or chaos lord on average. Especially when you consider that you can remove the combo by just killing either of the characters, which is quite easy to do in 9th.

Not really. Characters still have quite a bit of protection in 9th.
Edited for clarification.

its actually a very cheap combo for what you get from it:
1)3 rounds of bonus -1ap for all your speeders with heavy weapons

2)all speeders with heavy weapons can shoot after advancing without penalties

3) character sniping for 1 talonmaster

its actually too good to last for long

Based on the language of the sniper warlord trait, it seems pretty clear they were specifically trying to exclude heavy weapons precisely because they realized that a talonmaster being able to snipe was too powerful. Then they inadvertently allowed it via the combination with the other warlord trait.

I'm not sure it actually is all that powerful, but it seems really clear from the sniper warlord trait that they were trying to avoid precisely this thing from happening.

RAW it works, but it does make the RAI extremely suspect. I wouldn't use it in a game.

Personally not going to use it, just prefer the Impeccable Mobility as it stands to buff my speeders in general, and will probably take the Corvus Occulus. Only have Sammy and 1 TM in my force since I don't want multiple detachments and keep the high CPs.