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Made in gb
Been Around the Block




The indomitus necron warriors the lowliest of the necron armies now stand taller than immortals and lychguard. This is getting ridiculous do we actually need this scale creep that means old models have to be assigned to the dustbin? At what point does it stop. When we are at 100mm scale? When marines are action figure size. Scale creep is only there to obsolete old models this is meant to be a miniatures game GW not action man. Stop inflicting this horrendous scale creep on our armies. It's making units unplayable and making armies peopled by giants ala severina raine the 9 foot commisar.
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





A Commissar with nine feet? MUTANT! DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA!

But seriously, don’t sweat the scale creep. I use RT minis and they still work just fine :-)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/28 06:12:26


 
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Scheming Archon





Between the sacred silence and sleep.

It is inevitable that the world will be overrun by cyclopean GW models....Iä! Iä! Cthulhu fthagn!

Kabal of the Mon-keigh's Paw
Coven of the Screaming Statues

"Death is only a concern if you're both weak enough to be killed and dumb enough not to arrange your own resurrection." PM713
 
   
Made in us
Steady Space Marine Vet Sergeant




San Jose, CA

Moriarty wrote:
A Commissar with nine feet? MUTANT! DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA!

But seriously, don’t sweat the scale creep. I use RT minis and they still work just fine :-)
Same here, I'm looking at my original beakies right now.

Do people not realize that even tho the minis are 28mm scale, it does not mean that are in the same scale in relation to each other. Its Gw, scale is more of a suggestion more than anything. Hell take a look at a tactical marine, then convince me that 12 of them fit inside a rhino.
   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut




I really dont like that GW is so lose with scale :( its really annoying.
   
Made in se
Bonkers Buggy Driver with Rockets




Sweden

It is fun that while the scale increases the tables also get smaller. The worst offenders in my oppinion are characters. Like what is the deal with abbadon and guillyguy? They are massive...

Brutal, but kunning!  
   
Made in us
Mutated Chosen Chaos Marine






I'm actually okay with the new look of the Warriors compared to the Lychguard. It makes the warriors look like the big, dumb tall brutes. Where as the Lychguard look more regal and as though smaller, they still command more capacity to think.
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka




UK

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJUhlRoBL8M

Far as I can see they are the same size, the new ones just visited the back-doctor and lost a little bit of their long sleepy back hunch

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/28 07:45:52


   
Made in gb
Princeps of the Emperor's Titan!






Eh, it’s a thing and always has been since Rogue Trader.

Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives?Why not join us?

 
   
Made in de
Regular Dakkanaut




All new models getting rescaled to fit properly with Primaris size is the best thing that could have happened.

Warhammer was always using "heroic scale" where limbs and heads were not properly proportional to the rest of the body and each other. Just look at the classic Marines. As much as I love these iconic models, Primaris properties just look better.

(Slightly) bigger models allow for more detailed models more easily.

Nobody is forced to buy redone units if they already have the old one and no army becomes unplayable.


OP is just writing hyperbole, lies and doomsaying as with every other single post of his.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/28 07:57:04


 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Another quality post from the OP, I see.

Comparing the old and the new warriors they look like they're actually very similar in size it's just that the old warriors are more hunched over while the newer ones stand straighter. Side by side they look fine and compared to Immortals or Lychguard the new warriors are clearly less bulky and overall less imposing even if they are a tiny bit taller overall. Given how dated the old warriors look the new ones are a vast improvement.

No idea why this means we should throw old models out. (That's a lie, I know full well it's so the OP can go off on another hyperbolic rant.) I still have Space Marines from 2nd edition and they look fine next to my Space Marine models from every edition from 2-8. The Deathwatch models are modelled in a more upright pose, just like the Necron warriors, and they look fine with equipment from 2nd edition models as well.

There is no problem here.
   
Made in us
Hungry Ghoul




OH NOOOOOO...

GW makes bigger and prettier models with more details and better poses who are closer to what we would normally see as anatomically correct and it's a terrible thing.

DAMN YOU GW!!!!
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut



NE Ohio, USA

Icegoat wrote:
The indomitus necron warriors the lowliest of the necron armies now stand taller than immortals and lychguard. This is getting ridiculous do we actually need this scale creep that means old models have to be assigned to the dustbin? At what point does it stop. When we are at 100mm scale? When marines are action figure size. Scale creep is only there to obsolete old models this is meant to be a miniatures game GW not action man. Stop inflicting this horrendous scale creep on our armies. It's making units unplayable and making armies peopled by giants ala severina raine the 9 foot commisar.


It's a money grab aimed at people like you who'll throw out perfectly fine models every few years.

   
Made in us
Jinking Ravenwing Land Speeder Pilot




Hanoi, Vietnam.

The thing is OP, if you'd just have complained about how geedubs actually invalidates stuff, that is, using bad rules and irrational points values, you'd probably have everyone agreeing with you, but as it stands, you chose to attack the one thing that most people seem agree is great.
   
Made in gb
Executing Exarch





Gitdakka wrote:
It is fun that while the scale increases the tables also get smaller. The worst offenders in my oppinion are characters. Like what is the deal with abbadon and guillyguy? They are massive...


its an infection thats crept in from video games, MMOs being the biggest culprit where humaniod boss monsters are usually far bigger than the grunt, although the eldar command chain seems connected to whoever stands on the nicest scenic bit is boss rather the physical bulk

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/28 08:42:22


"AND YET YOU ACT AS IF THERE IS SOME IDEAL ORDER IN THE WORLD, AS IF THERE IS SOME...SOME RIGHTNESS IN THE UNIVERSE BY WHICH IT MAY BE JUDGED." 
   
Made in fi
Courageous Space Marine Captain






This thread is useless without pics.

Only the insane have strength enough to prosper. Only those who prosper may truly judge what is sane. 
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Scheming Archon





Between the sacred silence and sleep.

 Turnip Jedi wrote:
Gitdakka wrote:
It is fun that while the scale increases the tables also get smaller. The worst offenders in my oppinion are characters. Like what is the deal with abbadon and guillyguy? They are massive...


its an infection thats crept in from video games, MMOs being the biggest culprit where humaniod boss monsters are usually far bigger than the grunt, although the eldar command chain seems connected to whoever stands on the nicest scenic bit is boss rather the physical bulk


For the latest Drukhari stuff it's a bit of both. The Incubi are slightly larger than Kabalites (as I suppose they should be), but are alos on 28mm bases rather than 25mm.

Drazhar is about the same size as the Incubi, but (as you suggested) is standing on a large piece of Parthenon. He also has a rather massive hat, which might signal a return to 'tradtional Eldar values' where a huge hat meant you were important.

Kabal of the Mon-keigh's Paw
Coven of the Screaming Statues

"Death is only a concern if you're both weak enough to be killed and dumb enough not to arrange your own resurrection." PM713
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Annandale, VA

Seabass wrote:
OH NOOOOOO...

GW makes bigger and prettier models with more details and better poses who are closer to what we would normally see as anatomically correct and it's a terrible thing.

DAMN YOU GW!!!!


I mean, scale creep is a legitimate concern from a gameplay standpoint. A Marine army on all 25mm bases has a much smaller footprint than one on a mix of 32mm and 40mm.

There are also a number of models that have just been bumped up to larger base sizes without getting new sculpts at all, like Ork Boyz.
   
Made in it
Stormin' Stompa




Italy

Seabass wrote:
OH NOOOOOO...

GW makes bigger and prettier models with more details and better poses who are closer to what we would normally see as anatomically correct and it's a terrible thing.

DAMN YOU GW!!!!


Prettier is an entirely subjective thing. IMHO any primaris miniature is flatout uglier than any classic SM one. And I'm not a fan of SM models either. The fact that they are bigger than older power armor dudes make it worse but it's not the main cause about why I strongly dislike those models.

Scale creep for that kind of infantry models isn't a big issue. It is when a hero that is supposed to be as big as a regular infantry model is actually 4x taller and 300% more fragile because it's supposed to make use of her wings. I'm referring on Celestine by the way. Just have a look at some of the new necrons, especially the diorama one. Miniatures like that one may be good as a fancy piece of furniture but they are a pure nightmare to transport and play with, and I'll never buy models like those ones.

Orks 7000
Space Wolves 4000
 
   
Made in us
Ferocious Black Templar Castellan




On the Internet

Racerguy180 wrote:
Moriarty wrote:
A Commissar with nine feet? MUTANT! DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA!

But seriously, don’t sweat the scale creep. I use RT minis and they still work just fine :-)
Same here, I'm looking at my original beakies right now.

Do people not realize that even tho the minis are 28mm scale, it does not mean that are in the same scale in relation to each other. Its Gw, scale is more of a suggestion more than anything. Hell take a look at a tactical marine, then convince me that 12 of them fit inside a rhino.

Historically vehicles were at a different scale so it wouldn't take two turns to walk around them. They're all about half as big as they should be.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 catbarf wrote:
Seabass wrote:
OH NOOOOOO...

GW makes bigger and prettier models with more details and better poses who are closer to what we would normally see as anatomically correct and it's a terrible thing.

DAMN YOU GW!!!!


I mean, scale creep is a legitimate concern from a gameplay standpoint. A Marine army on all 25mm bases has a much smaller footprint than one on a mix of 32mm and 40mm.

There are also a number of models that have just been bumped up to larger base sizes without getting new sculpts at all, like Ork Boyz.

While true, GW seems to be employing it to bring things more in scale with each other, give things more natural proportions and generally increase the detail on the models. They're not just making things bigger every release arbitrarily.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/28 13:29:02


 
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba





Ummm...the ones my buddy used didn't...seem to be?

Yeah, look:

https://preview.redd.it/r84bkcz79ja51.jpg?width=960&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=4adc130d2f21ec782e2d4f88ee73d1c89154b04a

This is an old warrior next to a new warrior. I'm not seeing it. Is this a 25mm vs 32mm thing again?
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




Seabass wrote:
OH NOOOOOO...

GW makes bigger and prettier models with more details and better poses who are closer to what we would normally see as anatomically correct and it's a terrible thing.

DAMN YOU GW!!!!

Not everyone wants to rebuy or can afford to rebuy, their whole army. Plus it seems kind of a strange that everything gets scaled up. Primaris were explained to be bigger then marine through lore, but there is no explanation why a SoB is taller then a classic marine now. What is the sense in updating marine size, if everyone gets bigger.

And lets no go in to anatomicaly correct with w40k world, because half the stuff in it should not be anatomicaly correct, and stuff that should like IG or SoB does not look it often enough to consider everyone in the setting some sort of mutant.

If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain. 
   
Made in es
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain




Vigo. Spain.

Yeah, theres no actual scale creep. It has not existed in 20 years. Primaris are not scale creep, are a scale change. GW has been consistent with everything else. Genestealer cultists, Skitarii, sisters, normal humans all are the same size.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/28 13:37:52


 Crimson Devil wrote:

Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.

ERJAK wrote:
Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.

 
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba





Karol wrote:
Seabass wrote:
OH NOOOOOO...

GW makes bigger and prettier models with more details and better poses who are closer to what we would normally see as anatomically correct and it's a terrible thing.

DAMN YOU GW!!!!

Not everyone wants to rebuy or can afford to rebuy, their whole army. Plus it seems kind of a strange that everything gets scaled up. Primaris were explained to be bigger then marine through lore, but there is no explanation why a SoB is taller then a classic marine now. What is the sense in updating marine size, if everyone gets bigger.

And lets no go in to anatomicaly correct with w40k world, because half the stuff in it should not be anatomicaly correct, and stuff that should like IG or SoB does not look it often enough to consider everyone in the setting some sort of mutant.


Probably because if you make models bigger you can fit more detail on them?

That seems to be the general sort of idea. Also, not everything has been scaled up. If you put a Cadian next to a Genestealer Cultist, for example, the cadian is way bigger, the GSC just has anything close to resembling a human body in terms of scale, while the cadian looks like you went into an old PS2 shooter and enabled "big heads mode"
   
Made in us
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Right behind you.

the_scotsman wrote:
Ummm...the ones my buddy used didn't...seem to be?

Yeah, look:

https://preview.redd.it/r84bkcz79ja51.jpg?width=960&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=4adc130d2f21ec782e2d4f88ee73d1c89154b04a

This is an old warrior next to a new warrior. I'm not seeing it. Is this a 25mm vs 32mm thing again?

It's an Icegoat wants to whine about something thing.
   
Made in ca
Stubborn Dark Angels Veteran Sergeant





Halifax, Nova Scotia

 Blackie wrote:
Seabass wrote:
OH NOOOOOO...

GW makes bigger and prettier models with more details and better poses who are closer to what we would normally see as anatomically correct and it's a terrible thing.

DAMN YOU GW!!!!


Prettier is an entirely subjective thing. IMHO any primaris miniature is flatout uglier than any classic SM one. And I'm not a fan of SM models either. The fact that they are bigger than older power armor dudes make it worse but it's not the main cause about why I strongly dislike those models.

Scale creep for that kind of infantry models isn't a big issue. It is when a hero that is supposed to be as big as a regular infantry model is actually 4x taller and 300% more fragile because it's supposed to make use of her wings. I'm referring on Celestine by the way. Just have a look at some of the new necrons, especially the diorama one. Miniatures like that one may be good as a fancy piece of furniture but they are a pure nightmare to transport and play with, and I'll never buy models like those ones.


Celestine is pretty durable. I transport mine to games weekly and she's not required any fixes yet. The actual model is very light and the scrolls supporting her are quite thick.

The new Necron diorama is supported by thick rods of plastic in multiple places. He'll be no more difficult to transport or play with than a Rhino.
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba





 Kanluwen wrote:
the_scotsman wrote:
Ummm...the ones my buddy used didn't...seem to be?

Yeah, look:

https://preview.redd.it/r84bkcz79ja51.jpg?width=960&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=4adc130d2f21ec782e2d4f88ee73d1c89154b04a

This is an old warrior next to a new warrior. I'm not seeing it. Is this a 25mm vs 32mm thing again?

It's an Icegoat wants to whine about something thing.


Kind of makes me feel like Dakka needs a "poster does absolutely nothing that ever contributes to anything, seems simply to exist to try and morosely flail, maybe we ought to put him out of his misery" rule.

Kind of like that "dalymiddleboro" dude who seems to exist solely to post threads like

Post Title: "is Unit X competitive now"

Post body: "Title"
   
Made in us
Mutilatin' Mad Dok




Sedona, Arizona

 Turnip Jedi wrote:
Gitdakka wrote:
It is fun that while the scale increases the tables also get smaller. The worst offenders in my oppinion are characters. Like what is the deal with abbadon and guillyguy? They are massive...


its an infection thats crept in from video games, MMOs being the biggest culprit where humaniod boss monsters are usually far bigger than the grunt, although the eldar command chain seems connected to whoever stands on the nicest scenic bit is boss rather the physical bulk


Boss size serves a legitimate purpose in many video games, especially MMO's. While you can have player-sized bosses in smaller content (1-5 players) without too many issues, you can't really do it in content which is meant for 20, or even 40, players. But at the same time it's not really reasonable to rule out all humanoid races as bosses. So the solution is to scale them up to where they won't get lost "in the crowd" of players while also having hit boxes large enough to facilitate mechanics.

Similar logic (sans player count) is at the heart of many up-sized bosses for single player games. Dark Souls wouldn't be a functional game with smaller boss models as it would would require every move to either have gigantic sparking lights to telegraph it or else just be unreadable in most situations.

 welshhoppo wrote:

I like my Orks how I like my Emperor, dead.
 
   
Made in us
Ferocious Black Templar Castellan




On the Internet

 morganfreeman wrote:
 Turnip Jedi wrote:
Gitdakka wrote:
It is fun that while the scale increases the tables also get smaller. The worst offenders in my oppinion are characters. Like what is the deal with abbadon and guillyguy? They are massive...


its an infection thats crept in from video games, MMOs being the biggest culprit where humaniod boss monsters are usually far bigger than the grunt, although the eldar command chain seems connected to whoever stands on the nicest scenic bit is boss rather the physical bulk


Boss size serves a legitimate purpose in many video games, especially MMO's. While you can have player-sized bosses in smaller content (1-5 players) without too many issues, you can't really do it in content which is meant for 20, or even 40, players. But at the same time it's not really reasonable to rule out all humanoid races as bosses. So the solution is to scale them up to where they won't get lost "in the crowd" of players while also having hit boxes large enough to facilitate mechanics.

Similar logic (sans player count) is at the heart of many up-sized bosses for single player games. Dark Souls wouldn't be a functional game with smaller boss models as it would would require every move to either have gigantic sparking lights to telegraph it or else just be unreadable in most situations.

To add to this, bigger things also tend to look more important, meaning GW can inform you through visual language the importance of something based on the height and size of the model as well as the base itself. This is why they having character models stand on something.
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




the_scotsman 790434 10880681 wrote:
Probably because if you make models bigger you can fit more detail on them?

That seems to be the general sort of idea. Also, not everything has been scaled up. If you put a Cadian next to a Genestealer Cultist, for example, the cadian is way bigger, the GSC just has anything close to resembling a human body in terms of scale, while the cadian looks like you went into an old PS2 shooter and enabled "big heads mode"


Could be, GSC really do have nice looking models. But on the other side of the coin are the new SoB. Even primaris suffer from it. I actualy like how clean the rank and file and the older primaris look like, with maybe the exeption of the fat flyer dudes. The new stuff gets overloaded with unneeded details and stange design choices, which end with people being force to do head swamps. I is kind of a funny how people started looking for DW knights heads, just to replace the attrocious head thing the hour glass dude has.

If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain. 
   
 
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