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I've been wondering how GW are likely to arrange the Primaris Kill-Team in the new book. At launch it was pretty straightforward (5 Intercessors and 0-5 additional models chosen from Intercessors, Reivers, Aggressors, Hellblasters, and Inceptors), but now there are four Troops units instead of one, and Eradicators, Eliminators, Bikes, and Heavy Intercessors (whatever those are). I presume they'll at least split the base team from the Phobos team, but then how will they handle Intercessors/Assault Intercessors? Will the Assault Intercessors be an upgrade choice and you still need to start with 5 normal Intercessors? Will they cut back on how mixed the mixed Kill-Teams can really be? Any thoughts?

I’m more curious if Infiltrators or Incursors would be the 5 required part of the potential Phobos team.

I too am wondering about this. My Deathwatch army is 90% troops, so I'm kind of wondering how things are going to work. The pessimistic part of me thinks we will just be Black Marines without kill teams until we get our own codex.

Until the new DW Codex/Supplement hits, do not expect any integration. All DW are getting is "<CHAPTER> can now mean Deathwatch, have fun!" in the interim.

For the Codex proper, I expect Assault Intercessors will become a wargear option for the regular Fortis team, while something *may* happen with a Phobos team, but Im not holding my breath.

There's a lot of possibilities I think.

They could just expand whats already there with the new units and you can have a combat squad of 5 of the new bikes that is a Troop with obsec.

A Phobos KT could use Reivers as a base and be an Elite, or use one of the Phobos Troops, or not exist.

The guys without a separate shoulder pad might not be allowed in KTs.

I think like Sterling said the Intercessors will be able to pick either a bolt rifle/pistol or sword/heavy pistol.

Special Issue Ammo being reworked seems like a very likely possibility.

Maybe the supplement will have some new stuff that releases with it, like the books from last year, and they'll actually get something new and unique. A new set of shoulder pads and some of the unique guns on a sprue and a primaris character.

So one of the things the table of contents for the Marine book shows is a new data sheet for 'Veteran Intercessors' in addition to the 'Heavy Intercessor'.

Assuming for a moment that the Veteran Intercessors are basically just the Stratagem made into a datasheet, is is likely that this would also be the starting point for the new Primaris Deathwatch Killteam.

Hopefully, this datasheet means more than just shifting the Stratagem and actually exists as a future kit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Slowroll wrote:
There's a lot of possibilities I think.

They could just expand whats already there with the new units and you can have a combat squad of 5 of the new bikes that is a Troop with obsec.

A Phobos KT could use Reivers as a base and be an Elite, or use one of the Phobos Troops, or not exist.

The guys without a separate shoulder pad might not be allowed in KTs.

I think like Sterling said the Intercessors will be able to pick either a bolt rifle/pistol or sword/heavy pistol.

Special Issue Ammo being reworked seems like a very likely possibility.

Maybe the supplement will have some new stuff that releases with it, like the books from last year, and they'll actually get something new and unique. A new set of shoulder pads and some of the unique guns on a sprue and a primaris character.

After they kind of backtracked on the separate shoulder pad thing with Indomitus, I imagine that might not be much of a barrier any longer. Obviously not that important since the real question is who gets SIA and who gets added to Kill Team options.

If you let me go fantasy mode for a second:

Deathwatch Primaris Veteran Kill Team:

Min 5-man, must be either Intercessors or Assault Intercessors.

May have 0-5 additional members of any of the following: Aggressors, Eradicators, Hellblasters, Bladeguard Veterans.

Deathwatch Primaris Mobile Fire Support Team

0-6 members, may mix Inceptors with any loadout and Suppressors

Deathwatch Primaris Infiltration Team

5-10 any combination of Reivers, Infiltrators, and Incursors. Must have 5 or more Reivers to unlock their Spooky Masks ability. May be led by your choice of Sergeant or Helix Adept.

All bolt rifles, bolt pistols, and bolt carbines get and pay for SIA.

^This would give me a primaris deathwatch that would actually feel like deathwatch. And also, give poor marine players some faction that can actually field primaris in the classic arrangement of a squad of bolters with some special/heavy weapon guys.


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Heck, let's just go pure Bob Ross this is your world fantasy mode:

-GW releases a new Primaris Deathwatch Veterans box. The Deathwatch Storm Shield and Power Sword design is retained,and that's how you build Deathwatch Bladeguard Veterans.

-It's got HTHs, Xenophase blade, Infernus Heavy Bolter, frag cannons, a boltrifle version of combimelta/combiflamer/combiplasma, and it swaps the Shotgun/Stalker/Bolter for Assault Boltrifle/Stalker Boltrifle/Bolt Rifle.

Primaris Deathwatch vets can take all those things.

Now THAT would be an ideal primaricization of deathwatch. Everyone can just, boop, counts-as and update their army. Nobody has to buy new sculpts, you can just have far more functional Deathwatch with the much better 2W base statline of primaris.

Assault Intercessors might just be the start of a new type of Kill Team that requires 5 of them and then can add up to 5 of a combination of Outriders, Bladeguards, and Eradicators.

The real question is whether they'll spend the time to make the unique rules worthwhile. At the moment, the only additions that are at all worthwhile are really the Aggressors for the move without penalty.

I'm not counting on Phobos. Scouts have never really been part of the DW design.

Personal hope:

Primaris get treated like the 'Kill-Marines'(I think that's what they were called?) from the FFG RPGs. One Deathwatch Marine, weird specializations and weapons, utterly lethal.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Personal hope:

Primaris get treated like the 'Kill-Marines'(I think that's what they were called?) from the FFG RPGs. One Deathwatch Marine, weird specializations and weapons, utterly lethal.

I wonder if there is a good way to fit what Deathwatch Kill Teams are trying to be in standard scale 40k.

They work so well in Kill Team (go figure given the name of the game) and actually seem like the group of A-Team Commandos that they're supposed to function as. On the tabletop that's always been represented by these bonkers, stupid clusterfucks of units that don't make any sense on the tabletop like jump pack and biker models shackled to footslogging space marines, which now would be made even more comical by the new coherency rules, which incidentally do kick in the second you decide to add any kind of mixed member to a kill team..

I don't think the alternative of having them operate as single models is any less nightmarish to resolve in full scale 40k.

What if...I guess I"m just spitballing here, what if instead of the normal Combat Squads rule, Deathwatch had Combat Specialists, with the same trigger point of "the first time they set up on the board/disembark from a transport for free, OR spend 1CP to do it during the game". And Combat Specialists allowed you to split 1-2 models off of one of your deathwatch kill teams to act as an individual unit for the remainder of the game.

The combined units work fine, honestly. They just need to add worthwhile rules to make them interesting inclusions and those inclusions can't be insanely expensive for what they add. Fall back and shoot/charge, move and shoot without penalty, heroic intervention, fearless are all good rules. It's just a matter of balancing out their costs to make them worth taking.

 LunarSol wrote:
The combined units work fine, honestly. They just need to add worthwhile rules to make them interesting inclusions and those inclusions can't be insanely expensive for what they add. Fall back and shoot/charge, move and shoot without penalty, heroic intervention, fearless are all good rules. It's just a matter of balancing out their costs to make them worth taking.

Nope. Combined units are a mess. They have been since the outset.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:
The combined units work fine, honestly. They just need to add worthwhile rules to make them interesting inclusions and those inclusions can't be insanely expensive for what they add. Fall back and shoot/charge, move and shoot without penalty, heroic intervention, fearless are all good rules. It's just a matter of balancing out their costs to make them worth taking.

Nope. Combined units are a mess. They have been since the outset.

Eh, they are "messy", but I don't think it's problematic. Only really a problem for fluffy bunnies who build every single marine in a kill team like Kill Team Cassius with wildly different loadouts with absolutely no thought to how they work together. (this is what you usually see in battle reports by the likes of MWG and Guerilla Miniatures)

I really like the customization options and have 2 ten man vet squads magnetized (yikes!). It's kinda the whole point of Deathwatch, other than having bonus strats vs Xenos.

If I feel like playing more normal marines or just want to field more stuff in general, I play normal codex marines.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:
The combined units work fine, honestly. They just need to add worthwhile rules to make them interesting inclusions and those inclusions can't be insanely expensive for what they add. Fall back and shoot/charge, move and shoot without penalty, heroic intervention, fearless are all good rules. It's just a matter of balancing out their costs to make them worth taking.

Nope. Combined units are a mess. They have been since the outset.

Not really. As soon as you get that the additional models are still, essentially Veteran/Intercessor Troops in terms of rules it gets pretty clean. Aggressors are probably the best example of the system working and we saw Terminators start working once they started being priced remotely competently. Bikers likewise have been fine, but the unit itself had no business actively charging and provided a much stronger overwatch threat. Inceptor/Vanguards are probably the best example of "real good rule that costs too much" though even there you can see the issue mostly lies with the Vanguard's weapon options not matching a unit that wants to fall back and shoot.