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"The Talon of Horus is a large archaic Lightning Claw fitted with an early custom-built Combi-Bolter that is currently wielded by Abaddon the Despoiler, the greatest Champion of Chaos, master of the Black Legion and the current Warmaster of Chaos. Abaddon reclaimed the weapon from the body of Horus himself at the end of the Horus Heresy in the early 31st Millennium. Abaddon currently uses the Talon as one of the primary emblems of his authority over the Forces of Chaos."


I want to use the Daemon Shells Stratagem. I know this thing is a combi-bolter. I don't see that its defined in the rules as a combi-bolter.

So... is it a combi-bolter or not?

 Sazzlefrats wrote:
"The Talon of Horus is a large archaic Lightning Claw fitted with an early custom-built Combi-Bolter that is currently wielded by Abaddon the Despoiler, the greatest Champion of Chaos, master of the Black Legion and the current Warmaster of Chaos. Abaddon reclaimed the weapon from the body of Horus himself at the end of the Horus Heresy in the early 31st Millennium. Abaddon currently uses the Talon as one of the primary emblems of his authority over the Forces of Chaos."


I want to use the Daemon Shells Stratagem. I know this thing is a combi-bolter. I don't see that its defined in the rules as a combi-bolter.

So... is it a combi-bolter or not?

Fluff is not rules. The Talon of Horus is a Talon of Horus, not a Combi-bolter.

While the talon is defined as a bolt weapon, the stratagem explicitly asks for bolt pistol, boltgun, combi-bolter or the boltgun profile of a combi-weapon.
Rules-wise there is no way of telling whether the talon of horus is one of those or just a similar weapons. For example an inferno boltgun couldn't use this stratagem either.

Yea, in a game with friends it probably SHOULD be able to be used because it’s definitely a combi-bolter, but strictly RAW it isn’t. There may be an argument with the precedent set from “malicious volleys” effecting relics that replace bolt-weapons, but that would be a stretch. IMO, it’s not like it’s game breaking and it makes sense. I’d allow it if my opponent in a tournament did it, but as a TO I definitely wouldn’t.

rbacus wrote:
Yea, in a game with friends...

In a game with friends I'd expect them to follow the rules.

Why does everyone immediately assume that games with friends always involve just making up a bunch'a gak that isn't in the game?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

rbacus wrote:
Yea, in a game with friends...

In a game with friends I'd expect them to follow the rules.

Why does everyone immediately assume that games with friends always involve just making up a bunch'a gak that isn't in the game?

The term "game with friends" is often used to refer to a more relaxed game where the narrative and having fun takes precedence over following the rules to the letter, a better term to use would likely just be "narrative game" but that also has other meaning.

In a relaxed friendly game I would happily let an opponent use the strat on the talon because its cool, makes sense and doesn't break the game in any way.

RAW you cant use it.

RAW you can't use it.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

rbacus wrote:
Yea, in a game with friends...

In a game with friends I'd expect them to follow the rules.

Why does everyone immediately assume that games with friends always involve just making up a bunch'a gak that isn't in the game?

To be fair, that fluff blurb clearly says that it's a combi-bolter and the stratagem sucks anyways, so I'd allow a friend to use it

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

rbacus wrote:
Yea, in a game with friends...

In a game with friends I'd expect them to follow the rules.

Why does everyone immediately assume that games with friends always involve just making up a bunch'a gak that isn't in the game?

Why does everyone in YMDC instantly become unable to understand context?

 p5freak wrote:
RAW you can't use it.

Agreed, its pretty clear cut by the rules. There are some situations where an omission feels like a clear error, but personally I dont think we can say that here. As noted above, there do exist other bolt weapons that can't use the strat.

If you want to agree with an opponent to house rule it go ahead of course

I don't like house rules unless its in a tournament... and if I can't do it there, I'm certainty not going to do it at home.


If a TO says sure.. great! Anyhow, looks like everyone is basically saying no and I haven't overlooked anything in all the books/faqs and where ever else GW hides rules and clarifications these days.