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Made in es
Regular Dakkanaut





UK

Have not played 9th yet, but I was looking at some ork stuff, and on the "Open-topped" rule for trucks, wagons and others, says :

"Models embarked on this model can attack in their Shooting phase. Measure the range and draw line of sight from any point on this model. When they do so, any restrictions or modifiers that apply to this model also apply to its passengers...."

This quote comes from battlescribe which is updated to 9th. In fact, later on the same rule says "While this transport is within Engagement Range of any enemy units, embarked units cannot shoot, except with any Pistols they are equipped with."

As it reads, it seems like because vehicles do not get -1 to hit when shooting heavy weapons, the passengers shooting heavy weapons while inside them do not get that modifier. This could apply to Flash glitzs, lootas or characters with heavy weapons mounted on vehicles, moving 12 inches and still shooting at full blast.
The intended way to apply the rule is not clear either, since you could both think "the unit is moving, thus cant aim as it could when stacionary, -1 it is" or "the unit is just sitting on the truck, not running around with a massive gun. They are only focused on shooting, like the gunners of the vehicle, and those do not get -1 either".

I am reading this correctly? Is there any specification related to this?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/08/30 17:42:02


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Made in us
Captain of the Forlorn Hope





Chicago, IL

Well...

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/791489.page#10910797

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/791436.page

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/791033.page#10897450

Basically the "Open-topped" rule is a mess.



"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.

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We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
 
   
Made in gb
Horrific Hive Tyrant





Yeah, basically just talk to your opponent. Every time this question comes up it turns into a trash fire.
   
Made in gb
Norn Queen






As the others have said, the Open-Topped rules don't actually function properly, because of the vagueness of the English Language, and there is no agreement on how to parse the rules.

There also seems to be no indication that GW care or will do anything about it.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/08/30 17:56:13


 
   
Made in us
Confessor Of Sins





Tacoma, WA, USA

While there are many things about the "Open Topped" rules that can considered to be ambiguous, this is not one of them.

A unit in a Transport is considered to have made the same movement as the Transport.
An Infantry unit that moved has a -1 to hit when firing Heavy weapons.
So an Infantry unit in a transport that moved has a -1 to hit when firing Heavy weapons because that unit moved.
   
Made in gb
Chalice-Wielding Sanguinary High Priest





Stevenage, UK

Agreed with Alextroy. Also, you've overreached in the initial reading:

"When they do so, any restrictions or modifiers that apply to this model also apply to its passengers...."

You're not dealing with a restriction or modifier that does apply to the transport model - you're dealing with one that doesn't. That rule doesn't cover those instances.

"Hard pressed on my right. My centre is yielding. Impossible to manoeuvre. Situation excellent. I am attacking." - General Ferdinand Foch  
   
Made in de
Nihilistic Necron Lord






Germany

The transports rules says :

Units cannot normally do anything or be affected in any way while they are embarked. Unless specifically stated, abilities have no effect on units while they are embarked, and Stratagems cannot be used to affect units while they are embarked. For all rules purposes, units that are embarked within a Transport model that has made a Normal Move, Advanced, Fallen Back or Remained Stationary also count as having made the same kind of move that turn.


This means, when the transport makes a normal move, the embarked unit also counts as having made a normal move, and they get -1 to hit. This also means that a unit which advanced, and embarked, can still fire their heavy weapons, if the transport remained stationary. Open topped has nothing to do with this, its a different rule.

And i agree with super ready. The transport ignoring -1 to hit when moving has no effect on the embarked unit. Open topped only transfers restrictions and modifiers, ignoring -1 to hit is neither a restriction, nor a modifier.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/08/31 05:23:42


 
   
Made in us
Confessor Of Sins





Tacoma, WA, USA

And remember they aren't even ignoring the hit modifier. I just doesn't apply to non-Infantry models.
   
 
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