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Ok, on another thread GW's stupid and arrogant decision to not release new codexes and chapter approved as full digital versions was discussed and it raised the fact that you are better off having every codex so you know what every enemy unit can do when playing against an army you don't own.

The fact that you are better off knowing exactly what every enemy unit can do is indisputable. A counterpoint was offered in that codexes have reviews and there are batrep videos that can give you a fair idea of what most units in any army can do.

If you're setting up an army another player doesn't run and is not fully familiar with, and he asks you what in general a particular unit can do, how do you answer?

Personally I think a general explanation of what makes a unit special or it's main abilities are is only fair.

So, if I happened to be an ork player (not) and I put down, say, a unit of shokk dragstas and he asked what they did, I think I'd fairly say "They have good firepower and can tellyport, which means if I roll good on their movement I can take them off the table and redeploy them on the table as per the DS rules."

As a necron player i'd fairly tell a non necrons who asked abvout new units things like "That's a skorpekh destroyer lord, he's a melee monster as you can see and has some close range firepower, plus he buffs destroyer units." or "Those are ophydian destroyers, they can deepstrike and will shred GEQ units in melee. No ranged attacks."

How do you feel about a player asking you about your units? I see it as only fair and an example of 'common knowledge" in the 40k universe.

Should be easy.

You give him or her an overview and ask them if they want to read the entry in the Codex you have with you.

 Mr Morden wrote:
Should be easy.

You give him or her an overview and ask them if they want to read the entry in the Codex you have with you.

Very fair and reasonable. I think Like you.

I mean this is a bit like asking how long is a bit of string.

The potential answer is going to vary ever so much based on the situation and the relationship between you and the other person.


The answers can range from simply saying "Oh those are "insert unit name" they are a "insert role (close combat, ranged etc...)" unit" all the way to a full breakdown and tactical options that you've got as well as potential synergies .


How much you say might also vary based on the other persons reaction, ergo they might want more detail or might say "Oh yeah I just needed to know what they are called" etc... So again it will vary ever ever so much.





In the end if its written in the Codex its open information that your opponent is free to know during the match.
How you might use a unit and what it can be used for and what synergies its got etc... is not open information; its application of information and you are free not to disclose it. Because this is bordering on how you are going to use the models which is how you are going to run the army - ergo your tactics. That's supposed to be private information.



Of course if its a tutorial game etc... then you might well go into far more detail to help the other player. Or you might enjoy the higher challenge and reveal your plan.



In the end the only time you should get concerned about someone asking about your army is if its in an event situation and they are asking a LOT of questions. Because at that point they might well be using a legitimate function of the game to stall/timewaste in a bid to try and ensure that the game ends on their terms. Or they are hoping to trip you up and get you to talk strategy instead of open information.






Note depending on the situation and how much information you are passing over you might well not say what aunit does and simply hand them the codex to read for themselves. Sometimes that's a lot easier and quicker. It's why "warscroll" cards are neat in AoS because you can just give them the unit card and they can quickly glance at the stats for the unit.

 Overread wrote:
How you might use a unit and what it can be used for and what synergies its got etc... is not open information; its application of information and you are free not to disclose it. Because this is bordering on how you are going to use the models which is how you are going to run the army - ergo your tactics. That's supposed to be private information.

I agree with this in principle. But in practical terms - it's going to be a lot easier to give each unit's role than delving into the stats for each one and letting the opponent figure it all out. The problem is one of volume. If they don't know the Codex, they're not likely to know about any of the units - so you're 1) going to spend way too long explaining each unit's stats in turn, and 2) expecting them to remember what they figured out for each unit as the game goes on.

Personally I'm happy to say "this is a close combat unit, this is a heavy weapon squad" and name the weapons they've got, and what roles those weapons have - then go into more detail if someone wants. I'd also call out anything unusual like high speed / jump packs, FNP, auras and so on.
If it's someone very new to the hobby and/or I'm feeling generous, I might also quickly go over stratagems that I'm likely to use (not every stratagem available, though! Again that'd take way too long).

It's why "warscroll" cards are neat in AoS because you can just give them the unit card and they can quickly glance at the stats for the unit.

Could not agree more with your post and this in particular.

Imo a player can ask me about anything and I'll give them as much detail as they want.

If you expect me to play a game with you on the basis of you deliberately underinforming me on what your units do so you can play 'Gotcha' with me later, then you are not someone I want to play with.

Sharing Codex's is a curtosy.

 Matt Swain wrote:


If you're setting up an army another player doesn't run and is not fully familiar with, and he asks you what in general a particular unit can do, how do you answer?

How do you feel about a player asking you about your units? I see it as only fair and an example of 'common knowledge" in the 40k universe.

I have no issue with anyone asking. Full disclosure. This is not a game of 'secret information gotcha!'

Paper is not a limitation.

When I played wmh, I showed the unit cards.

For 40k, open the codex to the entry in question. Show and tell.

I'll give as much information as asked, but I'll volunteer the basics. When I run down my army list, I'll cover any unit my opponent is unfamiliar with in the following template:
Unit Name
Statline
Weapons / Special abilities
Major stratagems they can use

For example:
"For Fast attack I have 3-man Vertus Praetors, they have a 14" move, fly, 4 attacks and are T6 4W with a 2+/4++.
They have hurricane bolters (you know what those are, right?) and in close combat hit at S6 AP-3 D3 damage, re-rolling wounds on the charge.
They can be affected by the -1 to wound strat, the ignore re-rolls strat, and have a special stratagem where they can charge at the end of YOUR charge phase and fight first when they do"

And I make it clear my opponent can ask other questions as the game goes on, plus I'll add stuff I may have forgotten "Oh yeah they also auto-advance 6". If you memorize it, it goes pretty quick.

I'll be blunt: if you try to win by denying your opponent info about your army, you don't deserve to win a single competitive game of 40K and the hobby would be better off without you.

 greyknight12 wrote:

For example:
"For Fast attack I have 3-man Vertus Praetors, they have a 14" move, fly, 4 attacks and are T6 4W with a 2+/4++.
They have hurricane bolters (you know what those are, right?) and in close combat hit at S6 AP-3 D3 damage, re-rolling wounds on the charge.
They can be affected by the -1 to wound strat, the ignore re-rolls strat, and have a special stratagem where they can charge at the end of YOUR charge phase and fight first when they do"

That's admirable, but unfortunately a good example of being completely impractical. Imagine that I have absolutely no knowledge of your Codex, and you need to do this for every unit for me.
...ok, probably not an issue for Custodes really!

...now imagine you're playing Orks, or Tyranids.

I'd ask pre-game if they wanted a run down now, or as and when, or if they already knew.

If they choose as and when, if, say, they shoot at something, I'll offer to show the unit's stats and what I might do in regards to stratagems. If they decide "oh wait, that's way more tanky than I expected", I let them call mulligan and choose something else. This also extends to things like if they'd moved in that direction, forgoing another unit they might have preferred to shoot.

But when it comes to my stuff, that's largely without their input. Sure, I can say in advance "that's anti-infantry, that's anti-tank, that's a super powerful single shot, that's a high ROF mid damage weapon", but once I've done my movement, it's in my hands now.

Stratagems I rarely play first time against newbies, and rarely base my game around. I'll add more in later, and oftentimes, have the stat cards ready on hand if I think I'm going to play them, which my opponent is able to see.


There is nothing to be gained from withholding anything.

I'll give them whatever information I think is relevant to the current situation but as brief as possible.

Lascannon Havocs
"They're basically just CSM but with +1T, don't get -1 for moving and they have a bunch of anti-tank weapons. If I use some strats they can shoot twice and be really nasty"

Mixed Weapons Chaos Terminators
"They have some weapons for infantry and some for tanks. They're really durable 2+ armour, 5+ Invul and 2(soon 3) wounds. They're not very fast but they'll hit hard when they get in there.

If they want more details they're free to read them themselves or I can list the stats and abilities and any synergies and relevant buffs I have available, whatever is more time saving.

If your goal is to have fun, you need to fully divulge absolutely everything about your army, hopefully in a way that they actually understand it.

It's a game, for fun.

If you're setting up an army another player doesn't run and is not fully familiar with, and he asks you what in general a particular unit can do, how do you answer?

If nice give him codex and tell him page. If not nice give him codex and tell him to be quick about checking, because play time is already running, and he is wasting it.

 Matt Swain wrote:
Ok, on another thread GW's stupid and arrogant decision to not release new codexes and chapter approved as full digital versions was discussed and it raised the fact that you are better off having every codex so you know what every enemy unit can do when playing against an army you don't own.

The fact that you are better off knowing exactly what every enemy unit can do is indisputable. A counterpoint was offered in that codexes have reviews and there are batrep videos that can give you a fair idea of what most units in any army can do.

If you're setting up an army another player doesn't run and is not fully familiar with, and he asks you what in general a particular unit can do, how do you answer?

Personally I think a general explanation of what makes a unit special or it's main abilities are is only fair.

So, if I happened to be an ork player (not) and I put down, say, a unit of shokk dragstas and he asked what they did, I think I'd fairly say "They have good firepower and can tellyport, which means if I roll good on their movement I can take them off the table and redeploy them on the table as per the DS rules."

As a necron player i'd fairly tell a non necrons who asked abvout new units things like "That's a skorpekh destroyer lord, he's a melee monster as you can see and has some close range firepower, plus he buffs destroyer units." or "Those are ophydian destroyers, they can deepstrike and will shred GEQ units in melee. No ranged attacks."

How do you feel about a player asking you about your units? I see it as only fair and an example of 'common knowledge" in the 40k universe.

Codecies are open information. You can't and shouldn't be keeping the profiles of your units secret. If I asked you a question about the rules in your codex, you should answer clearly and honestly in the context of the situation.

For example, if you asked about my Leman Russ Command Tank, I'd tell you that it's T8, Sv3+, W12 and equipped with a battle cannon and lascannon. If I move half or less of my 10" move, I may fire the battle cannon a second time targeting the same unit. At the beginning of my shooting phase, she gives one of three buffs: re-rolls to hit, move again, or use smoke and still shoot; to a tank within 6" of her which can be herself.

 Super Ready wrote:

That's admirable, but unfortunately a good example of being completely impractical. Imagine that I have absolutely no knowledge of your Codex, and you need to do this for every unit for me.
...ok, probably not an issue for Custodes really!

...now imagine you're playing Orks, or Tyranids.

Bluntly, if someone is that far into not having a general inkling of what an army's units can do?
It means they're likely new to the game or the army is new to the game. Which means that I'm aware (or should be) of this from the outset and I keep my book handy, with sticky notes marking the potential 'hold up, WHAT?' units.

In Age of Sigmar? This is why I buy both the book and warscroll cards for armies I like/play. It means that if something comes up--I can show them the warscroll card/book.

Aye a tutorial game or a game against a beginner where you know they are beginner is going to be very different to many others. When you know from the start that your opponent understands the game less then, as a player, you'd likely expect to spend more time during the game explaining some basic concepts and giving more detailed info on your codex stats.

It's something you'd go into the game expecting. It might mean you accept that you might not finish the game in the time allowed because you'll spend more time talking then playing.

Are you literally in a tournament where you're on a clock and there's prize money on the line? If so, feel free to give minimal information or hand over your Codex and say "figure it out yourself". If not, you may want to consider calming down and explaining things such that your opponent knows what's going on.

Yeah... tournaments can do tournaments, but I'd usually run through my army at the start of the game. I'd at least say what everything was. Hopefully it would be pretty obvious by what the model looks like - or what weapon its got unless wysiwig has left the building. (Can't say this is common, because its a disease that has increasingly got its hooks into me - but for sets where GW gives you 1 of a weapon you want to arm 3 models with, I'm not that bothered. Looking at say Killer Kanz or Crisis Suits... its reasonable to say they've all got X loadout, rather than a complete mess because I'm not paying to acquire or print extra bits.)

Mostly though "here's my codex, knock yourself out".

In a usual game we "present" our armies to each other at the beginning. So explaining the army list, detachment boni, relics, warlord traits and units that we may bring for the first time or that are very unique to the faction played.
Sometimes we also hint at certain stratagems that are tied to a unit to make an opponent aware of possible surprises. But you can't explain everything and I think it's part of the fun of 40K to keep some "gotchas" in your pocket.

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
In a usual game we "present" our armies to each other at the beginning. So explaining the army list, detachment boni, relics, warlord traits and units that we may bring for the first time or that are very unique to the faction played.
Sometimes we also hint at certain stratagems that are tied to a unit to make an opponent aware of possible surprises. But you can't explain everything and I think it's part of the fun of 40K to keep some "gotchas" in your pocket.

This is what me and my friends do too, even if at this point we can more or less fill in the blanks of each others armies anyway. Generally speaking after a big update (like War of the Spider for me) we update each other on some of the new goodies we got rules-wise. But the few occasions I (used to) play at the store, I give a brief rundown of my army to my opponent and ask them if they have any questions rule/stat/strats wise and I will ask for theirs too. I despise gotcha moments since it feels like cheating your way to a one-time win you would otherwise not have gotten. One friend used that once on me and I, and another friend spectating, politely told him that in the future we prefer he doesn't spring surprises like that on us.

 AnomanderRake wrote:
Are you literally in a tournament where you're on a clock and there's prize money on the line? If so, feel free to give minimal information or hand over your Codex and say "figure it out yourself". If not, you may want to consider calming down and explaining things such that your opponent knows what's going on.

If, at a tournament, I have to figure out if I need to interrupt an action or use a stratagem and that rides on the question "what does that do?" then I would expect you to wait for me to figure it out. Thus wasting time because you chose not to answer a simple question.

A tournament is not an excuse to make the decisions of your opponents more difficult by not answering something like that.

 DarknessEternal wrote:
If your goal is to have fun, you need to fully divulge absolutely everything about your army, hopefully in a way that they actually understand it.

It's a game, for fun.

That really depends on the individuals involved. It's certainly possible to have fun playing the game without being fully aware of what the opposing army is capable of, provided you trust your opponent to play by the actual rules and not take deliberate advantage of your ignorance by getting stretchy with them.

 Matt Swain wrote:

The fact that you are better off knowing exactly what every enemy unit can do is indisputable.

It is, yes, and has been since at least 2nd edition. For most players, though, it's also a completely unrealistic goal, and also always has been.

Even aside from the expense of buying all of the codexes, a cost that has only grown over the years as armies expanded and books became more expensive, the game is just far too big to expect anyone other than a really dedicated player to actually read all those books, and retain any amount of that information until such a time as they need it.

For casual play, unless you're playing people you know can't be relied on to follow the rules (in which case the question becomes: why the hell are you doing that to yourself?) having just a general level of knowledge of the armies you're likely to face, at the level of 'This unit is killy in melee, this unit can teleport, DO NOT stand in front of that unit, is generally sufficient, and from my experience most players just develop that knowledge through playing games and learning the hard way.