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A few things jump out at me:
-Elysians got their unique units, but no Doctrine. I assume this means they can pick their own, following the guidance in the codex?
-Renegades & Heretics are back, they're BS4+ (!), infantry are 6PPM (!!), and vox-casters and Enforcers now just confer Ld bonuses. R&H never aligned directly to Astra Militarum, but I wonder if this shows us what vox-casters and Commissars will be doing in the new codex, and how much basic Guardsmen will cost.
-Corsairs have rules again.
-Tyranid Shrikes aren't in this, nor are they in the new FW book- I take this as confirmation that shrikes will be in the next Tyranid codex.
Honestly this is a lot better than I was expecting.
Edit: Bizarrely, the Centaur has two different entries on the points cost table, with different base costs and upgrades. Wonder what that's about.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/11/09 16:17:07
Necrosius looks pretty damn good again, he's simply a better plaguecaster and his unique wargear got better. He lost his special Aura that only him and Mammon could use, but that's not really a loss. Oh and he lost the ability to deny 3 psychic powers, but that was honestly a little off, he's now 2 cast/ 1 deny like usual sorcerors.
DG and TS got access to all the legion models except Rapiers again. I still don't know why they decided that Rapiers aren't for them, but it is what it is.
My Demios(Hellforged) predator I just got is Martial Legacy. That sucks. Hellwright is better yet worse at the same time. Zhufor doesn't give rerolls anymore. I'm disappoint.
Ooof. Looks like GW is doubling down on the garbage eldar statline, that's very very unfortunate.
Eldar desperately need some core statline improvement to compare to W2 (effectively) A2 marines with Bolter Discipline and Doctrines.
And yet, with the forgeworld compendium and legends we have the same gak S3 A1 T3 W1 statline on both an aspect warrior unit and a guardian-equivalent unit...uuuugh.
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
Ugh, this PDF is both a poorly constructed (making each page take forever to load) and didn't bother bookmarking anything. Navigating this thing is a pain. Oh well.
So, looking quickly at stuff that's most immediately relevant to my interests.
Death Korps Grenadiers are reasonably priced, 7ppm, that's a surprise. Albeit they still have their original 3E Stormtrooper weapons limitations of 2 per 10, but at 7ppm I'll deal.
The Quartermaster Cadre doesn't do much, but at a minimum 15pts, doesn't cost much either, for a 3" 6+FNP bubble, if you're running a blob of DKoK infantry units of sorts, where this unit might be within range of five or six units, I could see it having a purpose, but that's about it.
Looks like they made the Storm Chimera just the generic "Autocannon Chimera" option, it's literally just got the autocannon and none of the other old upgrades, which is fine. I can live with that, especially as they were largely hideously overpriced and mandatory previously.
The Centaur indeed has two identically named but differently costed points entries with different upgrade uptions. There used to be two different versions, the assault carrier and the artillery tractor (where the former received the 4E Extra Armour upgrade to downgrade Stunned results to Shaken), but that hasn't been a thing in a while and it's not how the rules are laid out or written.
The Griffon is ok, ironically it's actually a better Marine killer than muppet mower, not that its spectacularly scary, but at 85pts it's hard to complain too much.
My big problem is that basically all of this Legends stuff basically appears to be written to the 9E transition stats, which as we've seen were pretty hamfistedly done, and they're going to remain in that zone forever.
IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights! The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.
I laughed a little bit at the Tauros Venator Twin Multilaser having only 3 shots, while seemingly still costing 10 points. But at least the Tauros Assault Vehicle Grenade Launcher now costs the same as the Heavy flamer. Still a bit overcosted for what is basically a twin grenade launcher, but I take what I can get.
Also I'm really happy the funny Sentinel variants (drop and powerlifter) are still alive.
~7510 build and painted
1312 build and painted
1200
BaconCatBug wrote: I see the removal of Shrikes as a complete removal, they won't be in the new Codex methinks.
For me Shrieks have long been in the same van as The Parasite of Mortex and the Doom etc... Ergo really neat ideas that GW had at one time but then never developed - likely because whoever does the Tyranids in the design team doesn't want to make them for some reason or some such. Heck didn't we have 2 whole codex editions with those special characters and yet no model. Annoying as it is at least "no model no rules" means they no longer endlessly tease us with them (we did get a neurothrope though
Covenant of chaos is now a general generic gakky former khorne covenant... yeah S 4 for getting charged or charging or heroic intervention... I guess get fethed any non Khorne R&H players...
Commander: 35 pts for an ignore attriton modifiers aura.. so 5 ppm more for worse?
Malefic lord: You know what people hated? Smite bots, so how bout we make him a only smite bot, that's right NO MORE R&H psy, but now 30 ppm cheaper. feth you GW
Rogue psyker coven: You know what people hated, Smite bots, have this allways smiting bot group for 35 pts, EACH WITH 3 W. ARE YOU STUPID GW?
Renegade cultists: Strictly better then regular CSM cultists: For 5 PPM. on behalf of any CSM player: feth you gw.
Militia Squad: OH Wow GW realised that it overpriced the squad, HOW ABOUT WE DO IT AGAIN. 6 PPM For a worse Guardsmen with worse morale and Armor? Atleast now WS and BS 4 + but still gak and nowhere near IA13 status.
Btw: here comes the Chaos sigil, a shity reroll 1 for charging or charged melee status, FOR 10 PPM on S3(4) bodies...
Renegade mutant rabble: Nerfed in squad size, morale , got better mutations... 7PPM for a worse then Militia unit...
Renegade Command squad: Nerfed morale, nerfed fanatic, banners are bad. SV nerfed. still WSBS 3+ for 6 pts. So why'd people even bother with militia? or Mutants for that matter? Also no more command vox because of course!
Renegade disciple squad: Yay it got a champ, therefore morale is back to ONLY SLIGHTLY UNDER THE AVERAGE OF THE LAST ALLREADY BAD ITERATION. 7ppm?
it's excactly the same as the fething command disciples but it's one ppm more... feth you GW.
Enforcer: No more auto morale on d3 dead, infact he doesn't even execute anymore, got a price drop ? Better morale rule... Hell he might even be worth it now without the blob build but still lost alot of flavour...
Marauders: Now stalkers and murder cultists at the same time, also only unit with an SV4+ in the whole fething army still 9ppm for a disciple body is overpriced even with the tac on rules though. Atleast the brutes now are hitting half decent... also no more mercs so their morale now is conventional.
Ogryn beashandlers are wierd now, the more dogs you use the cheaper .. on average because min 1 ogryn and beast for 15 ppm regardless what you get? WHO THE feth LET THE INTERN WRITE THAT?
Berzerkers got nerfed, in regards to drugs and have no more champion
Chaos Spawn is now 23 ppm...with the covenant.. yeah that is really fething cheap..
Renegade heavy weapons squad: Basically like milita overpriced.... Until you realise that a clown aded a special equipment entry for the heavy weapons squad, yeah, they get a quad launcher for 35 ppm. you get a quad launcher team for 47 ppm....
Conclusion:
you couldn't even bother to give back some flavour of IA 13, instead we got a Index 8th somehow WORSE functionality for a collectors army . You actively achieved to make it simultaniously WORSE to play against, because i am sure somewhere some donkey-cave decides to coven smite spam, and field all the bloody quad launchers he can, whilest also making the regular R&H player basically also worse off with the nonsense that is the equipment and pts cost for the regular actually intersting units of a R&H army.
feth you GW. sincerly , i hope the donkey-cave that wrote this list has a seriously bad day. this is supposed to be a farwell, with no replacement option in sight that is worth that name. I hope the added ressources to develop primaris leutnants is fething worth it.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/11/09 17:43:41
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
The Destroyer Tank Hunter got quite a nice boost to it's weapon. It use to be essentially a D3 shot Lascannon, now it's Heavy 2 S12 Ap-4 Damage D3+3.
The S12 is somewhat meaningless, but the extra reliability and Ap are certainly welcome.
It did lose its tank Hunter ability though which is is a shame. I'm just happy to not be wasting my time putting it on a table. It's not so much a tank Hunter, more a scavenger picking off wounded vehicles with a bit of reliability.
I was really hoping for the Leman Russ keyword though, as it's a model that screams out for a tank ace ability.
So maybe I'm a bit out of the loop, as admittedly I've not looked at 8th edition R&H, but I have seen 7th edition rules, and looking at the current legends rules for them, with what (also, admittedly limited) knowledge I have of astra militarum rules, solely due to having a friend who plays guard..
Are the problems with the army really that bad? I see a huge amount of issue with points costs, but didnt AM also get a points hike recently? It seems to me like at least with a brief skim over of their rules to be "guard, but more melee focused, and with their own tricks". Which, is kind of what playing chaos marines feels like in relation to loyalist marines.
I understand they're not going to be competitive, and may not stand toe to toe with the best guard regiments, but it -feels- like they're a different way to play guard, but as the baddies.
How do they stack up as if they were a unique guard regiments? As in, the +1s if charging, charged or HI, plus unique units and such were just regimental adjustments?
BaconCatBug wrote:I see the removal of Shrikes as a complete removal, they won't be in the new Codex methinks.
Overread wrote:For me Shrieks have long been in the same van as The Parasite of Mortex and the Doom etc... Ergo really neat ideas that GW had at one time but then never developed - likely because whoever does the Tyranids in the design team doesn't want to make them for some reason or some such. Heck didn't we have 2 whole codex editions with those special characters and yet no model. Annoying as it is at least "no model no rules" means they no longer endlessly tease us with them (we did get a neurothrope though
Maybe I'm being overly optimistic, but it would be downright weird for a unit that had Matched Play legal rules (but no model) in 8th to disappear entirely and forever, while a couple of kits that haven't been produced in close to a decade and never got Matched Play rules in 8th, like the Knarlocs, made it into Legends.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
LordOfWar wrote: How do they stack up as if they were a unique guard regiments? As in, the +1s if charging, charged or HI, plus unique units and such were just regimental adjustments?
Put it this way- Catachans get S4 all the time, get Orders that let them melee in the Shooting Phase, have better armor and Ld, and are a point cheaper.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/11/09 18:56:31
Apparently GW stealth-updated the legends document so that the FW stuff is available to TS and DG without it being considered as a legends unit.
DG stuff get the <bubonic astartes> keyword and can be part of a plague company
TS stuff gets the <Arcana astartes> and can be part of any cult of magic.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/11/09 19:08:23
Hmm that's odd it has changed the wording. Doesn't necessarily apply to the actual Imperial armour compendium though so I wouldn't get too excited.
I imagine they have decided it was a little convoluted to put the rule in legends so they will instead FAQIA.
Shrikes did used to have an upgrade kit made by forgeworld. But they were always a codex unit. There's been confusion due to them having rules in Index Xenos 2, but later having point cost updates in the forgeworld section of CA books. They seem to have fallen into a hole where GW can't decide whether they are codex unit or a forgeworld unit, and have settled on neither.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/11/09 19:12:59
Sororitas Repressors look decent-ish at their points cost. Pity they couldn't just revamp the model and make it, well, not Legends? I have 3 3d-printed ones that are now paperweights unfortunately. I mean, I could fix them up and paint them for casual games where my opponent is okay with legends, but the incentive just isn't there for me.
My armies (re-counted and updated on 11/7/24, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~16000 Astra Militarum: ~1200 | Imperial Knights: ~2300 | Leagues of Votann: ~1300 | Tyranids: ~3400 | Stormcast Eternals: ~5000 | Kruleboyz: ~3500 | Lumineth Realm-Lords: ~700
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Board Games blog | Total models painted in 2024: 40 | Total models painted in 2025: 25 | Current main painting project: Tomb Kings
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: You need your bumps felt. With a patented, Grotsnik Corp Bump Feelerer 9,000.
The Grotsnik Corp Bump Feelerer 9,000. It only looks like several bricks crudely gaffer taped to a cricket bat.
Grotsnik Corp. Sorry, No Refunds.
Lias doesn't have any Deep Strike shenanigans so I'm surprised they kept his cost so high. At least I can still use that model though.
Also FANTASTIC that Anton got Blast on his gun. My shotgun wielding standin is gonna be totally cool. Shame he didn't get more damage on any of his weapons though.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
ZergSmasher wrote: Sororitas Repressors look decent-ish at their points cost. Pity they couldn't just revamp the model and make it, well, not Legends? I have 3 3d-printed ones that are now paperweights unfortunately. I mean, I could fix them up and paint them for casual games where my opponent is okay with legends, but the incentive just isn't there for me.
Now is the ideal time to play with them though, before further "corrections and adjustments" occur!
While I'm disappointed to see some units reduced to Legends (mainly Lias and the Stormhammer), I honestly don't get why it's a big deal that R&H, Elysians and the like are in here.
From what I've seen mainly on the Facebook pages, people seem to be treating it as if the sky is falling:
"Well, guess I can't use my Elysian army anymore!"
"That's it!! I'm selling my DKK force!!!"
etc, etc.
What's the big deal? Nothing's stopping you from using them. Hell, if anything this gives you more flexibility to use Doctrines to better represent your army's flavour. Use your R&H as regular Guard, use Elysians as Tempestus, great! That sort of variation is what we should be seeing.
Valkyrie wrote: While I'm disappointed to see some units reduced to Legends (mainly Lias and the Stormhammer), I honestly don't get why it's a big deal that R&H, Elysians and the like are in here.
From what I've seen mainly on the Facebook pages, people seem to be treating it as if the sky is falling:
"Well, guess I can't use my Elysian army anymore!"
"That's it!! I'm selling my DKK force!!!"
etc, etc.
What's the big deal? Nothing's stopping you from using them. Hell, if anything this gives you more flexibility to use Doctrines to better represent your army's flavour. Use your R&H as regular Guard, use Elysians as Tempestus, great! That sort of variation is what we should be seeing.
In many respects, at least regarding the Death Korps, I agree, I'm entirely fine with using the basic IG Infantry Squad entry for DKoK infantry instead of having a separate datasheet. My big issue is that, for any sort of competitive event (or people playing games to those rules), if they're not allowing legends, it does make certain things impossible to run, or at least run in any way that makes sense.
The DKK regimental doctrine is pretty crap, but I can live with that, and if I really care for the most part the Catachan one fits just as well and is miles better
IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights! The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.
~7510 build and painted
1312 build and painted
1200 
~16000 Astra Militarum: 
~1200 | Imperial Knights: 
~2300 | Leagues of Votann: 
~1300 | Tyranids: 
~3400 | Stormcast Eternals: 
~5000 | Kruleboyz: 
~3500 | Lumineth Realm-Lords: 
~700
