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oke i wanna start with aos but need to have a army then can win some games.
fist i would like tp play stormcast but my friend told me they are the posterboy for aos and they have great minis but they suck
they play the following army in my group

skaven, flesh eater court, fireslayers, blades of khorn, the gost stuff and slaves to darkness

what army do you suggest i take a look in to

Are you wanting to powergame and optimize and win grand tournaments or are you looking for a fun but B tier list?

my oponents play i would say strong list and i want to play for fun but have a change of winning from them once or twice

Play Stormcast. They have a very large roster and while some parts are a bit bad a lot of their units are decent to good. The army itself CAN suck, but by building out a list properly you can mitigate that. Personally I suspect a lot of the 'Stormcast suck' sentiment comes from people using units that have not been optimised in their equipment options--for some units this is a really big deal and it is easy for the unaware to slip into having poor weapon choices.

Sequitors are probably the biggest offender here; when attacking a 5+ save the same 5-man unit could have a base damage average of 3.2, or an average of 6.4, based entirely on how their weapons were allocated. The different options all have the same point cost, so you can imagine someone using the former configuration would get a very different impression than someone with the latter. Note that this is unusual for AoS, most armies do not have a notable problem with this.

Long story short, check in with experienced players when building a Stormcast army and you'll do fine.

could you give me some leads what i would need if i where to play stormcast against fireslayers or blades of khorn or skaven

I can, but are there any details you can give me about what units they are using? Anything could help me tailor the advice to suit.

fec : uses lots of big dragons and terrorgeist and some serfs
fireslayers : king on big beast and lots of slayers and they fast and can fight several times
ghost player :uses lots of little fellows buffed whit characters does a ton of attacks
blades of khorn : minimum 3 units of skullcrushers, lord on skullcrusher, 30 warriors and a bloodthirster
skaven : uses big ratogers whit guns
slaves : bloodthirster, 30 warriors, demonhound that can dispel and a unit of 3warriors with a hound

A suggestion. Make sure you like the look of whatever army you eventually build. You'll be painting a lot of them, and if you dislike their looks, painting will be a huge chore.

 Ancestral Hamster wrote:
A suggestion. Make sure you like the look of whatever army you eventually build. You'll be painting a lot of them, and if you dislike their looks, painting will be a huge chore.

This. I would settle on a few armies that you love the aesthetic of, then start trying to pick out one that suits your playstyle.

 skeleton wrote:
fec : uses lots of big dragons and terrorgeist and some serfs
fireslayers : king on big beast and lots of slayers and they fast and can fight several times
ghost player :uses lots of little fellows buffed whit characters does a ton of attacks
blades of khorn : minimum 3 units of skullcrushers, lord on skullcrusher, 30 warriors and a bloodthirster
skaven : uses big ratogers whit guns
slaves : bloodthirster, 30 warriors, demonhound that can dispel and a unit of 3warriors with a hound

Oof, that is some serious competition.

First off, you'll want to run the Anvils of the Heldenhammer sub-faction. This is mainly for their command ability allowing a unit to shoot or fight in the hero phase.

At least one 6-man unit of Vanguard-Raptors with Longstrike Crossbows. These are the guys you use aforementioned command ability on, allowing them to shoot in the hero phase and snipe high priority targets. For Fyreslayers, Nighthaunt, and Skaven this will mean killing their heroes. If this is something that particularly appeals to you a 9-man unit is also good, but the full size is too much of a points sink.

At least one Knight-Incantor. They are just really good for a lot of reasons. You should probably bring two.

Everblaze Comet endless spell. This is a bomb you drop on the enemy for a ton of mortal wounds.

The Ballista is good, especially because you can deploy it in the skies then have it deploy onto the field mid-game and immediately shoot with its shorter-range but higher-damage weapon. An 'all-in' option is to bring two Ballista and a Lord Ordinator, who buffs their hit rolls, and drop them down together. The Ballista are particularly durable if you get them in cover, which can hold up enemy units sent to deal with them.

Liberators are a cheaper battleline but won't deal much damage, sequitors cost more points and are vastly more effective, but require a Lord-Arcanum to be the general for them to be battleline. Either way you'll want 3 units of 5, and make sure the champion has a two-handed weapon (the sequitors will need two regular dudes with 2h as well).

I'll echo what Ninth said. You're up against some serious contenders. Those types of lists you mentioned are not playing around.

Stormcast are quite a lot like Space Marines. If you take Little Timmy's first batch of models, some Liberators, a few assorted characters and maybe some of the coolest looking models in the range, your army will suck.

It's once you pick out the fantastic parts and put them together in to a mighty list that you start being able to contend well with other strong lists.

One of the key things to learn if you play Stormcast, is how to make good use of your Teleport/Reserve Deployment abilities. Dropping units on to the table first turn can establish strong board presense on objectives... but it can also be a trap if you don't do it at the right places. Having a unit drop on the board and be too far from the rest of your forces can leave it without support and get picked off quickly. It will take playing and learning the game to get a feel of when and where it's right to teleport your troops in.

As a Skaven player(Rat ogres with guns play here), I absolutely love it when an inexperienced Stormcast player drops all their Evocators or Sequitors in front of my army first turn and slaughtered my Clan Rats. Free food for the Stormfiend guns and Hellpit Abominations right behind the horde models.

The other important benefit of the Teleport ability Stormcast get, is that it can protect key pieces from shooting or alpha-strikes on the first turn, if you're not going first.

To keep on the Skaven examples, if my Stormcast opponent has Longstrike Crossbows, every long-range gun (Jezzails especially) are getting aimed at the Longstrikes. You can avoid this if I take first turn by having them deploy in Reserves instead of on the table. This will guarantee at least one round of shooting with the Longstrikes, but you'll miss out on the Anvils of the Heldenhammer ability (command ability is in the Hero phase, Stormcast teleport is in the Movement phase after hero phase.) This will all make more sense once you get playing.

Stormcast as an army have some bad units, but they are not a bad army. Effectiveness varies greatly depending on what models you take.

Also be prepared to buy a new army in the middle of next year when they do their annual point changes if you're playing in that kind of environment where everyone is min/maxing, because they dont keep the max armies max for longer than a year or two.

 auticus wrote:
Also be prepared to buy a new army in the middle of next year when they do their annual point changes if you're playing in that kind of environment where everyone is min/maxing, because they dont keep the max armies max for longer than a year or two.

Aside from when they do... *cough*Tzeentch*cough*

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 auticus wrote:
Also be prepared to buy a new army in the middle of next year when they do their annual point changes if you're playing in that kind of environment where everyone is min/maxing, because they dont keep the max armies max for longer than a year or two.

Aside from when they do... *cough*Tzeentch*cough*

Didn't tzeentch get battle tome january? So actually his statement still fits. There hasn't been at least year after battletome. And by the time that book came out GHB20 was already pretty much written...First point changes you would expect for changing balance is thus 2021 GHB.

Expecting them to redo points before book is even out is pretty weird

Tzeentch has been a top tournament army since its first Battletome back under GHB1. At no point has it ever ceased to be tourney viable, throwing a wrench into the 'top don't stay top' argument. It is also the tip of the iceberg, there is a whole gradient of armies that were OP then got nerfed but remained very strong or others that were OP and got nerfed into sub-par, and the reverse for armies that started off bad and everything in between. The ultimate point is that simplifying the shifting meta down to 'the good gets bad, the bad gets good' is as misleading as saying 'the meta never shifts that much'. As much as many people would like for it to be simple, cut-and-dry, it isn't. It is a complex web of interactions which draws not only on the raw value of a unit verses its point cost but what other units & armies are dominant, what type of play scenarios favor, how new an army is, the price of different miniatures, if they are direct only or not, and more. There is no way to boil that down to a single-sentance blurb.

thanks for all the input

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Tzeentch has been a top tournament army since its first Battletome back under GHB1. At no point has it ever ceased to be tourney viable, throwing a wrench into the 'top don't stay top' argument. It is also the tip of the iceberg, there is a whole gradient of armies that were OP then got nerfed but remained very strong or others that were OP and got nerfed into sub-par, and the reverse for armies that started off bad and everything in between. The ultimate point is that simplifying the shifting meta down to 'the good gets bad, the bad gets good' is as misleading as saying 'the meta never shifts that much'. As much as many people would like for it to be simple, cut-and-dry, it isn't. It is a complex web of interactions which draws not only on the raw value of a unit verses its point cost but what other units & armies are dominant, what type of play scenarios favor, how new an army is, the price of different miniatures, if they are direct only or not, and more. There is no way to boil that down to a single-sentance blurb.

I have yet to see someone use the same collection that they started with five years ago and continue to be tournament viable years later. Even the tzeentch guys.

Maybe the RACE or FACTION remains viable, but the composition of the competitive elements within that race or faction do need changed up and do require buying new models (or if you buy everything ... switching them out) on the regular to keep up for the most part if playing cutthroat min/max style is your environment.

Yeah, that is another reason that meta is complicated. And for our OP it does not need to be tourney-viable it just needs to be on that side of the bell curve, so to speak. There are a broad swathe of units which have little to no history of dominating the meta at any point, but also have never been bad such that they would weaken an average army for being in it. For example, a Tzeentch list that was strong three years ago may not be as strong now, but it could definitely show up and perform decently in the environment the OP is describing.

The risk to actually worry about is buying into units which are subsequently over-nerfed to being a liability. I could see that happening to longstrikes, but even then their role as long-range artillery let's them fill a niche no other unit can. Possibly the Knight-Incantor but I doubt she will ever reach a point of not being useful. The comet on the other hand, yeah I could see that getting hit hard enough with the nerf bat to no longer be worth taking. At any rate none of that will happen until a new battletome, which will probably hit with 3rd edition, and I'd say we are at least 8 months out from that.

The thing that Storm Cast need to do to be successful is not try to out fight the enemy. Just play the objectives. Also make sure you get some speed in your army too - the birds and dogs make great disruption pieces or units to camp on objectives. They are cheap and can run away if needed.