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Back in the days of WHFB, I was quite interested in Dark Elves. I liked the general aesthetic and atmosphere, as well as what lore I'd read, and the playstyle looked appealing.

But then came Age of Sigmar and Dark Elves basically ceased to exist as any sort of cohesive faction.

They returned (kind of) in Cities of Sigmar, but nothing about the most Dark Elf-y city (Anvilgard) really enticed me to buy into the game.

However, someone recently pointed out to me that Broken Realms had given Dark Elves a new, slightly more developed city, where all the units have to be Dark Elves or Khainite Elves. And while I still lament parts of the range being inexplicably missing (no repeater bolt throwers? And Dreadlords just grow on the backs of dragons like fungus?), I'll admit that my interest has been piqued.

Hence, I just wondered if anyone here has had any experience with Har Kuron armies? If so, could you give me an idea what such armies look like and whether there are any lynchpin units?

Har Kuron is a very new subfaction, and I am willing to bet it's not very common due to that, it's too soon to have anyone actually have experience playing the subfaction.

It's a very similar list to what Anvilguard was, only a bit more restrictive in what you can take. It's still a cities of sigmar army which lets you ally in some Daughters of Khaine units, so will play very similar to that.

A lot of the Daughters of Khaine units rely a lot on buffs from their own books allegiance ability, but the heartrenders and other flying unit are fantastic cheap objective grabbers who can deep strike.

The core of your army should be blocks of infantry to screen with, and hold objectives.

Executioners can do mortal wounds, which is really nice, and Morathi is an absolute beast of a hero.

Scourgerunner chariots are also cheap, and very good to take multiple of.

Otherwise, I'm not too familiar with a lot of the other units.

A buddy of mine plays Anvilguard, and I've not been too impressed with the sorceress on black dragon, the hydra and Kyribdiss, or the Corsair units. Pretty fragile, and don't have much punch.

Thanks for the reply.

 jaredb wrote:
Har Kuron is a very new subfaction, and I am willing to bet it's not very common due to that, it's too soon to have anyone actually have experience playing the subfaction.

Ah, okay.

I'm a bit out-of-touch with AoS stuff, so I wasn't sure how new it was.

 jaredb wrote:
It's a very similar list to what Anvilguard was, only a bit more restrictive in what you can take. It's still a cities of sigmar army which lets you ally in some Daughters of Khaine units, so will play very similar to that.

Well, I wasn't very familiar with Anvilgard, tbg.

 jaredb wrote:

The core of your army should be blocks of infantry to screen with, and hold objectives.

Executioners can do mortal wounds, which is really nice

Blocks of infantry are fine with me.

 jaredb wrote:
and Morathi is an absolute beast of a hero.

Is Morathi a core part of Har Kuron armies?

 jaredb wrote:

Scourgerunner chariots are also cheap, and very good to take multiple of.

Otherwise, I'm not too familiar with a lot of the other units.

A buddy of mine plays Anvilguard, and I've not been too impressed with the sorceress on black dragon, the hydra and Kyribdiss, or the Corsair units. Pretty fragile, and don't have much punch.

Interesting. Okay, I'll bear all that in mind.

I don't know if you can answer this, but is this an army that can work with predominantly infantry (plus some chariots and such) and support heroes on foot? Or would I be looking to include Morathi and various other big models?

Anyway, thanks for the input.

A few key notes:
Daughters of Khaine aren't just "allies" for you in Har Kuron. They can be taken as part of the army, period, meaning they can benefit from Har Kuron specific auras and the like. This is a huge deal as Allies do not generally receive those things.

Anvilgard was a notable City because it let you take Kharibdyss or War Hydras as a Battleline choice. If you were going heavy on infantry or Dreadlords/Sorceresses on Black Dragons--you were kinda shooting yourself in the foot, since there were 3 "Drakeblood Curses" that you could take that beefed up monsters. You got 1, base, but then could add an additional one for each Warscroll Battalion you had or if you took a specific Illicit Dealing(Anvilgard's special trait) that granted an additional one.

I often saw people wasting their Drakeblood Curse on a Black Dragon Sorceress which was...yeah. At least on a Dreadlord, they'll be in combat anyways so they can really benefit from these melee-oriented traits(one dealt MWs to units that harmed the creature in melee, one gave you the ability to cause MWs after charging to an enemy unit within 1", and the last subtracted 2 from Bravery of enemy units within 12").

I can't tell you exactly how to play Har Kuron since it's new, but I can say that if you're wanting to take full advantage of it?
1 in 4 units can be Daughters of Khaine. For every 4 Har Kuron units(including heroes!), you can take a DoK unit fully as part of your army...which again I cannot stress enough how big of a deal that is.

 vipoid wrote:
Thanks for the reply.

 jaredb wrote:
Har Kuron is a very new subfaction, and I am willing to bet it's not very common due to that, it's too soon to have anyone actually have experience playing the subfaction.

Ah, okay.

I'm a bit out-of-touch with AoS stuff, so I wasn't sure how new it was.

 jaredb wrote:
It's a very similar list to what Anvilguard was, only a bit more restrictive in what you can take. It's still a cities of sigmar army which lets you ally in some Daughters of Khaine units, so will play very similar to that.

Well, I wasn't very familiar with Anvilgard, tbg.

 jaredb wrote:

The core of your army should be blocks of infantry to screen with, and hold objectives.

Executioners can do mortal wounds, which is really nice

Blocks of infantry are fine with me.

 jaredb wrote:
and Morathi is an absolute beast of a hero.

Is Morathi a core part of Har Kuron armies?

 jaredb wrote:

Scourgerunner chariots are also cheap, and very good to take multiple of.

Otherwise, I'm not too familiar with a lot of the other units.

A buddy of mine plays Anvilguard, and I've not been too impressed with the sorceress on black dragon, the hydra and Kyribdiss, or the Corsair units. Pretty fragile, and don't have much punch.

Interesting. Okay, I'll bear all that in mind.

I don't know if you can answer this, but is this an army that can work with predominantly infantry (plus some chariots and such) and support heroes on foot? Or would I be looking to include Morathi and various other big models?

Anyway, thanks for the input.

Yeah, Har Kuron came out with the Morathi book, at the end of November.

Morathi isn't a core part of Har Kuron, she's just a powerful Daughters of Khaine and order hero.


Really, it'll probably be a pretty rare subfaction to see on the table, so you'll be figuring it out on your own, but I'd look into reviews of City of Sigmar and Daughters of khaine units, and see what you'd like to include in the army based on that.

You can probably do fine without monsters. I don't rate a lot of the Darklings covens units too highly, but I know folks had some success with them. The main power will probably come from the Daughters of Khaine units. But, I don't have too many folks in my area who play Cities of Sigmar, and the one fellow who plays Anvilguard locally isn't a strong player, so it's hard to judge.

Age of Sigmar, is primarily an objective scoring game, so you just need to be able to get to objectives quickly, hold them, and keep your opponents off. It's a deadly game too, things die very fast, so it's good to have chaff and screening units to protect your hero's and valuable hitting units, before they can be charged and eliminated. T1 charges are a fact of life in AOS, so you need to be prepared for that.

Looking at it I see three main differences to my own current Dark Elf CoS list.

1) The most obvious - different lists of Battle Traits, Command Traits, artifacts, & spells. Better/Worse/just different? Not sure, haven't really studied these yet. I see a nifty Battlshock thing in there.

2) 1 in 4 units can be DoK. This could be interesting/important as I can now exceed the allies pt restriction I'm currently operating under CoS wise when I dip into DoK & they'll enjoy the benefits of the army. Hmm.... (currently I only include two Khinari units as my classic WHFB army had two units of harpies)
The big thing here would be that I could include Morathi....

3) I lose access to including Stormcast units. :(
This is important because they are providing me the rules for my missing repeating bolt throwers. My classic DE models + Stormcast rules.

Overall I don't think this city will change how my own stuff plays unit wise. In AoS I've found my DEs a bit soft saves & damage wise. This doesn't change that.

Har Kuron is not a strong set of allegiance abilities, most of the advantage lies in the broad unit roster. You will need to capitalize on that, which may involve a bit of a steep learning curve. The allegiance offers a free prayer and a potent spell lore, both of which you will need to be using. Perhaps the main benefit of HK is simply having anvil units to tank for high-offense DoK ones, and having decent shooting alongside it. You will definitely be wanting big blobs of the basic dark elf infantry.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Notable strengths;

Dreadspears buffed by the Incitement to Murder prayer will have 6s hitting twice, both with an extra rend. They are also battleline and solid front line anvils when in big blocks. This makes them great to have a sorceress stand behind and stab for bonus casting and aoe battleshock immunity via their own warscroll and the HK command ability respectively. HK likes to stab underlings.

Black dragon sorceress with vitriolic spray will have both a spell that is fantastic against low armor targets and a spell that is fantastic against high armor targets. Make her the general with Dark Adept and you can cast both in the same turn, at +2 to the rolls (after stabbing an underling). Give her the traitor's banner and she will also bubble out a large aura of -1 to hit vs shooting (a big deal these days).

The basic coven sorceress has a spell that gives -1 to hit, and the HK spell lore has a spell that gives -1 to hit. They stack.

Blood sisters and sisters of slaughter are good choices as hammers, with 2" range attacks allowing them to swing from behind a line or two of their dreadspear buddies.

Doomfire warlocks get to pick a spell from the HK lore, which is really nice. But they also eat up a DoK unit slot, so something to think about.

10-man shard units are great for filling battleline, camping objectives and adding more regular units for the purposes of fitting in 1-per-4 DoK ones.

You do not need the CoS battletome for HK, just the Morathi campaign book.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

You do not need the CoS battletome for HK, just the Morathi campaign book.

Well you need to get the stats, pts, etc for the CoS/DoK units from somewhere as they aren't in this book....

ccs wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

You do not need the CoS battletome for HK, just the Morathi campaign book.

Well you need to get the stats, pts, etc for the CoS/DoK units from somewhere as they aren't in this book....

There's a free army builder with points available from GW themselves.
And then individual kits have free downloadable PDFs.

Only thing you will not have are the rules for CoS/DoK relics and spells. You're outright disallowed from using any of the special Cities of Sigmar stuff(adjutants and Stormkeeps being the most notable) anyways in Har Kuron.

One note though is that Warscroll Builder lets you add unallowed units in. So I guess you maybe need to know the factions but that stuff is, again, via the webstore.

 Kanluwen wrote:

ccs wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

You do not need the CoS battletome for HK, just the Morathi campaign book.

Well you need to get the stats, pts, etc for the CoS/DoK units from somewhere as they aren't in this book....

There's a free army builder with points available from GW themselves.
And then individual kits have free downloadable PDFs.

Only thing you will not have are the rules for CoS/DoK relics and spells. You're outright disallowed from using any of the special Cities of Sigmar stuff(adjutants and Stormkeeps being the most notable) anyways in Har Kuron.

One note though is that Warscroll Builder lets you add unallowed units in. So I guess you maybe need to know the factions but that stuff is, again, via the webstore.

Yea, like I said, somewhere.

If digital is fine, the AoS app is free and has all the warscrolls. If printed is desired the cards can be bought. Either way the battletome is not needed to play the army.

Thanks for the further replies, all.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

Dreadspears buffed by the Incitement to Murder prayer will have 6s hitting twice, both with an extra rend.

I'm probably going to be asking something stupid here, but would the prayer be good on a large unit of Darkshards?

It just struck me that it didn't specify melee attacks, and Darkshards get 2 attacks each.

My tournament list is Har Huron, but I don't think you want my list

Morathi duo
Fleetmaster
Fleetmaster
Scourgerunner Chariots x3
Scourgerunner Chariots x3
Scourgerunner Chariots x3
Scourgerunner Chariots x3
Shadow Warriors x10
Shadow Warriors x10
Shadow Warriors x10
Shadow Warriors x10

OR

Morathi duo
Fleetmaster
Fleetmaster
Scourgerunner Chariots x3
Scourgerunner Chariots x3
Scourgerunner Chariots x3
Scourgerunner Chariots x3
Scourgerunner Chariots x3
Shadow Warriors x10
Shadow Warriors x10


Again, its for tournament so thats why it looks like that. I like the top one more, but the bottom one is stronger. The top list is just much easier to play.

 vipoid wrote:
Thanks for the further replies, all.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

Dreadspears buffed by the Incitement to Murder prayer will have 6s hitting twice, both with an extra rend.

I'm probably going to be asking something stupid here, but would the prayer be good on a large unit of Darkshards?

It just struck me that it didn't specify melee attacks, and Darkshards get 2 attacks each.

It would, especially round 1 were it may be that nothing is in melee range anyways. I specifically called out dreadspears, though, because there is compounding benefits. Their own ability makes 6s to hit have an extra rend, making it so those already improved hits are also hitting twice means dreadspears benefit comparatively more than other units.

 Amishprn86 wrote:
My tournament list is Har Huron, but I don't think you want my list

Morathi duo
Fleetmaster
Fleetmaster
Scourgerunner Chariots x3
Scourgerunner Chariots x3
Scourgerunner Chariots x3
Scourgerunner Chariots x3
Shadow Warriors x10
Shadow Warriors x10
Shadow Warriors x10
Shadow Warriors x10

OR

Morathi duo
Fleetmaster
Fleetmaster
Scourgerunner Chariots x3
Scourgerunner Chariots x3
Scourgerunner Chariots x3
Scourgerunner Chariots x3
Scourgerunner Chariots x3
Shadow Warriors x10
Shadow Warriors x10


Again, its for tournament so thats why it looks like that. I like the top one more, but the bottom one is stronger. The top list is just much easier to play.

Heh.

To be honest, I think my biggest concern is that, in the second list, the Scourgerunners alone would cost over £400. I'm not sure I paid that much for my entire Dark Eldar collection.

That said, if I was able to pick up a pile of chariots from ebay or such (or find suitable stand-in models), I actually wouldn't mind using something similar to your first list.

The main thing I'd want to change would be to swap out Morothi and one of the Fleetmasters for some standard sorceresses and maybe an Assassin or Slaughter Queen (plus whatever else is needed to fill out remaining points).

I'm guessing, however, that replacing Morothi would rather defeat the functionality of the list?

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 vipoid wrote:
Thanks for the further replies, all.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

Dreadspears buffed by the Incitement to Murder prayer will have 6s hitting twice, both with an extra rend.

I'm probably going to be asking something stupid here, but would the prayer be good on a large unit of Darkshards?

It just struck me that it didn't specify melee attacks, and Darkshards get 2 attacks each.

It would, especially round 1 were it may be that nothing is in melee range anyways. I specifically called out dreadspears, though, because there is compounding benefits. Their own ability makes 6s to hit have an extra rend, making it so those already improved hits are also hitting twice means dreadspears benefit comparatively more than other units.

Ah, I see.

Thanks for explaining that.

NP. In regards to corsairs, personally I feel that while the units absolutely have their role they aren't particularly suited for HK. They eat up points that you really need for both the anvil infantry blocks and for the hammer DoK units and for the various leaders, because really you are wanting 3 wizards in a list. Special exemption for the chariot since 1-man units are cheap throwaways that do just enough damage to not be ignorable and bulk out your unit count. Though sidenote; never run multiple chariots in a unit. It forces wounds all on one model at a time and makes the unit vulnerable to battleshock.

 vipoid wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:
My tournament list is Har Huron, but I don't think you want my list

Morathi duo
Fleetmaster
Fleetmaster
Scourgerunner Chariots x3
Scourgerunner Chariots x3
Scourgerunner Chariots x3
Scourgerunner Chariots x3
Shadow Warriors x10
Shadow Warriors x10
Shadow Warriors x10
Shadow Warriors x10

OR

Morathi duo
Fleetmaster
Fleetmaster
Scourgerunner Chariots x3
Scourgerunner Chariots x3
Scourgerunner Chariots x3
Scourgerunner Chariots x3
Scourgerunner Chariots x3
Shadow Warriors x10
Shadow Warriors x10


Again, its for tournament so thats why it looks like that. I like the top one more, but the bottom one is stronger. The top list is just much easier to play.

Heh.

To be honest, I think my biggest concern is that, in the second list, the Scourgerunners alone would cost over £400. I'm not sure I paid that much for my entire Dark Eldar collection.

That said, if I was able to pick up a pile of chariots from ebay or such (or find suitable stand-in models), I actually wouldn't mind using something similar to your first list.

The main thing I'd want to change would be to swap out Morothi and one of the Fleetmasters for some standard sorceresses and maybe an Assassin or Slaughter Queen (plus whatever else is needed to fill out remaining points).

I'm guessing, however, that replacing Morothi would rather defeat the functionality of the list?

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 vipoid wrote:
Thanks for the further replies, all.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

Dreadspears buffed by the Incitement to Murder prayer will have 6s hitting twice, both with an extra rend.

I'm probably going to be asking something stupid here, but would the prayer be good on a large unit of Darkshards?

It just struck me that it didn't specify melee attacks, and Darkshards get 2 attacks each.

It would, especially round 1 were it may be that nothing is in melee range anyways. I specifically called out dreadspears, though, because there is compounding benefits. Their own ability makes 6s to hit have an extra rend, making it so those already improved hits are also hitting twice means dreadspears benefit comparatively more than other units.

Ah, I see.

Thanks for explaining that.

Morathi is a very good unit for me, but i have played it before this book without her to great success, 2 phoenixes for examples are just as good on the defense side, a bit faster, but not as strong on offense. You can also take Hurricaniums for re-rolls, MW's, and a spell.

 Amishprn86 wrote:

Morathi is a very good unit for me, but i have played it before this book without her to great success, 2 phoenixes for examples are just as good on the defense side, a bit faster, but not as strong on offense. You can also take Hurricaniums for re-rolls, MW's, and a spell.

I thought Har Kuron couldn't take anything except Dark Elf stuff?

 vipoid wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:

Morathi is a very good unit for me, but i have played it before this book without her to great success, 2 phoenixes for examples are just as good on the defense side, a bit faster, but not as strong on offense. You can also take Hurricaniums for re-rolls, MW's, and a spell.

I thought Har Kuron couldn't take anything except Dark Elf stuff?

That poster has a history of getting rules wrong when giving advice on this forum. There is no way for an HK army to run either of those, even as allies.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 vipoid wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:

Morathi is a very good unit for me, but i have played it before this book without her to great success, 2 phoenixes for examples are just as good on the defense side, a bit faster, but not as strong on offense. You can also take Hurricaniums for re-rolls, MW's, and a spell.

I thought Har Kuron couldn't take anything except Dark Elf stuff?

That poster has a history of getting rules wrong when giving advice on this forum. There is no way for an HK army to run either of those, even as allies.

They did state that they'd played those mixes BEFORE this book. Wich would make the Phoenix/Hurricanium lists just regular CoS lists.

Right, but the thread's about Har Kuron so all those suggestions are kind of pointless.


Regarding Corsairs:
I like them. They are cheap. My Anvilgard setup tends to go heavy on Corsairs, Kharibdyss, and Dark Riders for some battleshock manipulation.

I don't think corsairs are bad at all, I just think they aren't ideal for HK specifically. That is theoryhammer though, so not totally sure. Are you able to play Kan? Would be awesome if you could test them out using HK rules for us.

I can't, unfortunately. Personal theoryhammering though is that since there's seemingly no Retinues in Har Kuron(unless I missed a FAQ note, that stuff falls under the items you're told to ignore)? Having Corsairs as cheap(and they are cheap!) units that you would not feel bad using "Make an Example of the Weak" on for Ignores Battleshock? Yeah. That always has a place.

I feel like having corsairs sit there as stab bags is wasting a lot of their talents, personally. But it could be really viable, not totally sure.