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I have always found the lore behind both the obliterators and mutilators really interesting. The whole concept of your desires and ambitions resonating within the warp in such a powerful way, that it can change your physique was always a fascinating concept for me within the CSM lore. One of the best examples of this are the obliterators and mutilators.

I really like new sculpts for the new obliterators that first came with the shadowspear box. (though I think it's really dumb that you still can't buy them as a single unit)
However, it has bugged me for some time now that GW apparently kinda forgot about the mutilators. Their models are really old and super ugly and their rules aren't very good either. In fact I believe their rules were kinda bad the last couple editions if my memory servers right.

Do you guys think we'll ever see a new mutilator kit? Maybe even with decent rules?

Tiberias wrote:
I have always found the lore behind both the obliterators and mutilators really interesting. The whole concept of your desires and ambitions resonating within the warp in such a powerful way, that it can change your physique was always a fascinating concept for me within the CSM lore. One of the best examples of this are the obliterators and mutilators.

I really like new sculpts for the new obliterators that first came with the shadowspear box. (though I think it's really dumb that you still can't buy them as a single unit)
However, it has bugged me for some time now that GW apparently kinda forgot about the mutilators. Their models are really old and super ugly and their rules aren't very good either. In fact I believe their rules were kinda bad the last couple editions if my memory servers right.

Do you guys think we'll ever see a new mutilator kit? Maybe even with decent rules?

pretty sure that when we get our new codex, mutilators and oblits will be combined in one entry. Why else would the new oblits sculpt get powerfists?

Which should've been done to begin with instead of the two separate entries.

Which should've been done to begin with instead of the two separate entries.

This. I am so tired of all the -ever so slightly different - entries across all the armies. Several factions could probably stand to do some data-sheet consolidation imo.

As to the question in the OP - no, I don't think we'll see new sculpts. As a platform, I think Mutilators have failed pretty hard. They have never been popular, (ironically, I think the worst they've ever been was upon release, which never bodes well) and given how much GW has expanded the game, they'd probably rather consolidate into the Obliterator statline and free up the production slot for something that will sell more.

That said, if you like Mutilators, I feel like they're the perfect unit for some really fun conversion work!

How long have ya'll been waiting for oblits?

Unlike Obliterators Mutilators aren't that old actually, they're from 6th Edition, so pretty new in Non-Space Marine terms, on par with the heldrake and fiends. On the other hand they've always been Failcast which is always a good reason to be replaced.
So, either GW just continues to write them in the CSM Codex with terrible rules and without caring about the models, or they get a Combiset together with Obliterators once these get their own kit. I somehow doubt they'll get their own plastics.

I agree with the above about new models. Conversion might be the way to go.

As to useful, it really depends on the codex, but for now, I have had some use with them. There is a Strat that allows a charge roll die to be changed to a 6 after it is rolled. This is an almost guaranteed charge out of any form of "deep strike". So with the right combo you can get them into combat, probably with a unit you want them to smash. This does not make them great, but I can see them as useful.

I'd honestly hate if they just get consolidated in one datasheet. And oblits being modeled with some powerfists doesn't fit mutilators nearly enough imo. They need to be geared out to the brim with blades and claws....that is their whole shtick.

Marines can get a million different kits for niche units. Mutilators deserve their own also. I'd rather propose they just scrap them entirely if GW is not willing to give them proper new sculpts and rules. Consolidating them into oblits would just absolutely suck.

Edit: multi kit of oblits/mutilators would be the dream, but that will never happen, because the new oblit models are monopose. It would be more work to create a multi kit based off that compared to just giving mutilators their own, new kit.

edwardmyst wrote:
I agree with the above about new models. Conversion might be the way to go.

As to useful, it really depends on the codex, but for now, I have had some use with them. There is a Strat that allows a charge roll die to be changed to a 6 after it is rolled. This is an almost guaranteed charge out of any form of "deep strike". So with the right combo you can get them into combat, probably with a unit you want them to smash. This does not make them great, but I can see them as useful.

The thing is that almost any other CSM infantry is a better target for that strat. Termis, Berzerkers, Possesed, Chosen, even regular chainsword CSM honestly.

For now they're monopose, yes. But I'm assuming a multipart set once they're released outside of shadowspear again. And with than there's a chance for Mutilators, too.

I'd expect if/when Obliterators get a multi-part kit, it'd built mutilators too. If such a thing is on the pipeline, I don't know.

Some of the Shadowspear Space Marine mono-build models (infiltrators, Eliminators), eventually got multi-part kits, so it's not out of question Obliterators will get the same.

Tycho wrote:

Which should've been done to begin with instead of the two separate entries.

This. I am so tired of all the -ever so slightly different - entries across all the armies. Several factions could probably stand to do some data-sheet consolidation imo.

I'm a Marine player, and I approve this message.

I'm a Marine player, and I approve this message.

Yeah - being a marine is what has largely got me feeling that way I think.

EDIT:

PLAYER - Marine PLAYER lol .

I am NOT an actual marine.

jaredb wrote:I'd expect if/when Obliterators get a multi-part kit, it'd built mutilators too. If such a thing is on the pipeline, I don't know.

Some of the Shadowspear Space Marine mono-build models (infiltrators, Eliminators), eventually got multi-part kits, so it's not out of question Obliterators will get the same.

One can always hope, but then again hope is the first step on the road to damnation.

This may just be me getting brainwashed by GW, but I've always been kind of okay with Mutilators having ugly models. After all, if anyone has to look that bad, it should be the warp-mutated lunatic covered in his own twisted flesh, right? Don't get me wrong, I would love to see some new Mutilator models, but I think they're a much lower priority than say, CWE, Lictors, or even the Deffkopta. I would be fine with these dudes being the last finecast model to be converted, in fact.

Also, maybe this is just me, but I think the new Obliterators look ten times stupider than the old ones. The fleshmetal guns have changed from a cool collection of weird pipe things to half-formed versions of other weapons, and I despise how annoyingly slick their flesh looks. Give me the texture of the Mutilator skin over that any day of the week.

I also love the fluff for Obliterator Cults and always have. I have wanted to do an Obliterator Cult army for a long, long time but it has never been a viable option. I even have an obliterator-daemon prince converted up. I am holding out for the obliterator/multilator plastic kit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

The Newman wrote:

Tycho wrote:

Which should've been done to begin with instead of the two separate entries.

This. I am so tired of all the -ever so slightly different - entries across all the armies. Several factions could probably stand to do some data-sheet consolidation imo.

I'm a Marine player, and I approve this message.

Ikr...

 Flipsiders wrote:
This may just be me getting brainwashed by GW, but I've always been kind of okay with Mutilators having ugly models. After all, if anyone has to look that bad, it should be the warp-mutated lunatic covered in his own twisted flesh, right? Don't get me wrong, I would love to see some new Mutilator models, but I think they're a much lower priority than say, CWE, Lictors, or even the Deffkopta. I would be fine with these dudes being the last finecast model to be converted, in fact.

Also, maybe this is just me, but I think the new Obliterators look ten times stupider than the old ones. The fleshmetal guns have changed from a cool collection of weird pipe things to half-formed versions of other weapons, and I despise how annoyingly slick their flesh looks. Give me the texture of the Mutilator skin over that any day of the week.

Mutilators should look kinda ugly that is basically their lore...i mean they are literally fused with their weapons. But when I called the old mutilators ugly I meant that their proportions and scale is just badly designed. Also their faces are just objectively bad....sure they are not supposed to look like sanguinius, but you don't have to make their faces look like mush to get across the fact that they are mutated and insane.

The final nail in the coffin is the fact that they are failcast, which is just horrible no matter how you look at it. No, they deserve a new kit or multi kit with the obliterators.

Edit: I also never get the point to consolidate units that have unique concepts and lore. I am not saying anyone here in this thread falls in this category, but sometimes I think that marine players have some sort of a guilt complex, because their faction gets the most attention most of the time. So they say stuff should get consolidated because Marines have so many units anyway....no! marines having many options both rules and models wise is cool imo. This means more depth and options both in list building and modeling and kitbashing, which in my book is always a good thing. It is just that marines shouldn't get almost all of the releases for such a prolonged period of time.

Tiberias wrote:

 Flipsiders wrote:
This may just be me getting brainwashed by GW, but I've always been kind of okay with Mutilators having ugly models. After all, if anyone has to look that bad, it should be the warp-mutated lunatic covered in his own twisted flesh, right? Don't get me wrong, I would love to see some new Mutilator models, but I think they're a much lower priority than say, CWE, Lictors, or even the Deffkopta. I would be fine with these dudes being the last finecast model to be converted, in fact.

Also, maybe this is just me, but I think the new Obliterators look ten times stupider than the old ones. The fleshmetal guns have changed from a cool collection of weird pipe things to half-formed versions of other weapons, and I despise how annoyingly slick their flesh looks. Give me the texture of the Mutilator skin over that any day of the week.

Mutilators should look kinda ugly that is basically their lore...i mean they are literally fused with their weapons. But when I called the old mutilators ugly I meant that their proportions and scale is just badly designed. Also their faces are just objectively bad....sure they are not supposed to look like sanguinius, but you don't have to make their faces look like mush to get across the fact that they are mutated and insane.

The final nail in the coffin is the fact that they are failcast, which is just horrible no matter how you look at it. No, they deserve a new kit or multi kit with the obliterators.

Obviously I agree about the finecast, but I feel the faces are part of the charm. It would be absolutely horrendous on anything else, but the Mutilators have a sort of "begging for death" expression that really suits them. It reminds me of the lore surrounding the Hellbrutes. As for the proportions, the weird shoulder gaps are the only thing which I feel stand out in a bad way. Everything else isn't that much worse than a new Obliterator or a Demon Prince.

I'd even just settle for more fluff on obliterator/mutilator cults and the obliterator virus, come to think of it. Give me ANYTHING GW!!

I don't know. I would hazard a guess yes as I think GW is pretty loathe to throw away an idea.

At the same time, I wouldn't be shedding a teardrop on their removal. The models are just... not good. I haven't been playing 40k all that long, but I can't really remember a time their rules were that good. They don't really fulfill any kind of role in CSM army I wouldn't rather take something else in general. Assault focused Chaos Terminators really cover most everything I could want from them, and I want something bigger and scarier I have melee Hellbrutes or even Maulerfiends.

I would much rather have the return of Chaos Dreadnoughts, Possessed in Terminator armor, a real set of Greater Possessed, Obliterators reincorporating them or any number of other things for my CSM army instead. I hope I didn't upset any fans of Mutilators out there.

They can be boxed with obliterators, but yes, they should get new models. Just like obliterators sync well with the Iron Warriors, mutilators could be good heavy units to go with World Eaters or Red Corsairs.

 Flipsiders wrote:

Also, maybe this is just me, but I think the new Obliterators look ten times stupider than the old ones. The fleshmetal guns have changed from a cool collection of weird pipe things to half-formed versions of other weapons, and I despise how annoyingly slick their flesh looks. Give me the texture of the Mutilator skin over that any day of the week.

Which Obliterators are you talking about? Because the finecast ones didn't have a collection of weird pipe things, they had lascannon barrels, assault cannon barrels, flamer barrels, plasma gun barrels, stubber barrels...

Thinking about it, they also had enough blades, chainswords etc that you could have probably made passable Mutilators out of them. Probably would have been better looking than the official Mutilators too.

Tiberias wrote:


Edit: I also never get the point to consolidate units that have unique concepts and lore. I am not saying anyone here in this thread falls in this category, but sometimes I think that marine players have some sort of a guilt complex, because their faction gets the most attention most of the time. So they say stuff should get consolidated because Marines have so many units anyway....no! marines having many options both rules and models wise is cool imo. This means more depth and options both in list building and modeling and kitbashing, which in my book is always a good thing. It is just that marines shouldn't get almost all of the releases for such a prolonged period of time.

Options are only good if they're meaningful. Just constantly adding and adding leaves you with multiple redundant units or units with pointlessly tiny differences between them. CSM aren't really hurting for close combat options with things like Possessed, Greater Possessed, Warp Talons, Terminators and so on. Sometimes if a unit doesn't fill an appropriate niche and you can't find a new one to put it into you're as well just removing it. SM suffer hugely from this. Yes, there are minor difference between Incursors and Infiltrators but I constantly get the two mixed up and there's no good reason why both need to exist when they fulfil very similar roles. It adds bloat without really adding depth and often you end up with the unit that's 5% better being the only one you ever see anyway.

Since they are not Space Marines: who knows?

Right now they are only available in a big box set (same for the Venomcrawler and Greater Possessed). So sooner or later they have to get a box of their own. I think it would be incredibly easy to do them as a shared kit with Mutilators: weapons would be different, as would heads and some "cosmetic" parts here and there. Mostly they share the same overall look and size though, so two kits would be overkill.

I do hope for the next CSM codex.

I think the original Obliterators/Mutilators were very much based around Terminators, now they seem to be somewhere between a Terminator and a Hellbrute, and I'd rather they did a new kit for Mutilators than roll them into one entry as Obliterators, however they'd definitely have to redo the rules as they're one of the worst units in the game at the moment, let alone the Chaos codex.

 Saturmorn Carvilli wrote:
I don't know. I would hazard a guess yes as I think GW is pretty loathe to throw away an idea.

At the same time, I wouldn't be shedding a teardrop on their removal. The models are just... not good. I haven't been playing 40k all that long, but I can't really remember a time their rules were that good..

To be fair, they haven't existed for very long. Oblits did both roles for several editions after their introduction (in 3rd, iirc).

Then suddenly, mutilators, rules and model failures from their random inception in the middle of the failcast debacle. And to rub salt in the wound, the Oblits received their third (or fourth?) size increase in shadowspear, and the pointless mutilators are even more the abandoned stepchild.

If GW does do something with them, it'll need to be a complete model AND rules overhaul, and frankly there's more interesting chaos stuff that needs attention on both counts.

I don't know. I would hazard a guess yes as I think GW is pretty loathe to throw away an idea.

They've shown the opposite imo. They've thrown away entire game systems, squatted armies, eliminated characters - they are actually surprisingly cavalier about dumping things they don't think are working. This is why I can see Mutilators being eliminated in favor of giving Oblits some extra options. I'm willing to bet that we see at least some of the options for Legions from Faith and Fury getting rolled into the actual CSM dex. They're going to want to start consolidating where they can similar to what they did for marines imo.

Edit: I also never get the point to consolidate units that have unique concepts and lore. I am not saying anyone here in this thread falls in this category, but sometimes I think that marine players have some sort of a guilt complex, because their faction gets the most attention most of the time. So they say stuff should get consolidated because Marines have so many units anyway....no! marines having many options both rules and models wise is cool imo. This means more depth and options both in list building and modeling and kitbashing, which in my book is always a good thing. It is just that marines shouldn't get almost all of the releases for such a prolonged period of time.

Slipspace gave a good answer to this, but for my own 2 cents, the ikey for me is "unique". You hit the nail on the head that if they really are unique then there's probably no reason to consolidate (although I would still argue that my loyalist marine dex has a bunch of "unique" options that would have looked better as Vect, or Keradruahk, or plastic aspect warriors, or new guard infantry, but I digress). BUT ... when units aren't that different you do have to wonder a bit. I mean the lore between muties and oblits isn't "unique". It's identical with the difference being "This one makes swords and that one makes guns". When you get to the point where you've got two units, and one is "kuning but brutal", and the other is "brutal but kuning", or, "No no no - these ones are different because the shoulder pad ends in 43 degree angle rather than the typical 45, or these ones are different because they're red", yeah, it's probably time to consolidate.