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Hi all,

I’m wondering how best to tool up my assault intercessor sgt and I am wondering what people’s opinion is on either the power fist or thunder hammer.

I know thunder hammers are popular but usually that’s because they are paired with a storm shield on that respective model, however at twice the cost, only 1 extra damage and 1 less AP I’m not quite seeing the value of the extra cost on a troop option. I could be missing some great combo however so opinions welcome.

I'm not familiar with the details, but if I recall, the TH had a flat damage profile of 3, while the PF had a damage of d3?

If so, the consistent, never fails to kill a 2 / 3 wound model in one hit can be valuable, depending on your meta. If you want to flatten MEQ, you don't want to roll a 1 for damage with a PF sort of thing.

It's the guaranteed damage from the hammer that makes them so appealing compared to a Power Fist, especially in a meta that is generally dominated by marines or the same kind of profile.

 Tyranid Horde wrote:
It's the guaranteed damage from the hammer that makes them so appealing compared to a Power Fist, especially in a meta that is generally dominated by marines or the same kind of profile.

The stats changed for both weapons.

Power fist: x2 -3 2
Thunder hammer : x2 -2 3

So if you want to kill Primaris, power fist is good. If you want to kill gravis/vehicles, thunderhammer is good.
I'd say upgrade to thunderhammers if you have points for them but theyre not required.

They nerfed the stats on the thunderhammer to bring it inline with the fist, but left it at the old points. Overpriced for what you get, but still decent against the right targets.

Magnets is the easy answer, but if I was gluing these days, I’d add the fist.

I like the powerfist, it's cheaper and AP-3.

Given updated info, I'd probably go with the PF then, unless you're specifically hunting big targets with that unit. Against W 1, 2, 4 models, you need the same number of successful wounds, and have a better AP to achieve that, apparently.

What an unusual move, and leaving them notably more expensive as well is odd. W 3 and 5+ wounds would make sense to rock the Hammer, but that seems like a dedicated big-thing hunting squad.

I think the better answer is whats the rest of your like they both have advantages

Typically I would go th on characters because mastercrafted d4 is pretty solid vs most targets

On a Sgt I would go neither it doesnt make enough of a difference to be worth it

Yeah it’s like comparing things like power swords and axes kind of thing. I’m leaning towards PF but mostly because TH is better on characters and I worry the extra 10pts may be a waste. That said, everyone loves thunder hammers so just in case I was missing something obvious.

Thunderhammmer would be worse if not for the proliferation of hard 3W profiles (Gravis Infantry, Custodes, imperial guard horsemen, and all the future stuff that will be pumped to 3W) or plague marines with 2W and -1 damage.

I think the difficulty is that on a Sgt your making 3 attacks you fail to hit with 1 against most targets with 3w+ they are T5 so 1 and a third wounds go through now at ap 2 assuming they are 3+ that leaves 0.88 saves

Now with the PF 1.12 go through but you do one less damage

Either way your looking at about 1 success which isn't enough to justify the points

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

 Tyranid Horde wrote:
It's the guaranteed damage from the hammer that makes them so appealing compared to a Power Fist, especially in a meta that is generally dominated by marines or the same kind of profile.

The stats changed for both weapons.

Power fist: x2 -3 2
Thunder hammer : x2 -2 3

So if you want to kill Primaris, power fist is good. If you want to kill gravis/vehicles, thunderhammer is good.
I'd say upgrade to thunderhammers if you have points for them but theyre not required.

In view of future popularity of Death Guard. I'd say we will see more TH in play. cos DR making D3 weapons "only" 50% worse while it make D2 weapons 100% worse.

U02dah4 wrote:
I think the difficulty is that on a Sgt your making 3 attacks you fail to hit with 1 against most targets with 3w+ they are T5 so 1 and a third wounds go through now at ap 2 assuming they are 3+ that leaves 0.88 saves

Now with the PF 1.12 go through but you do one less damage

Either way your looking at about 1 success which isn't enough to justify the points

Remember, the first round of combat you generally are getting one more attack from Shock Assault. If you are working on justifying the investment, that could be relevant.

--

For general use the drop in AP is a big deal IMHO. On a sarge, who is more likely to be swinging at troop-like things, I’d rather have the fist with the better AP. While there are a number of units that the hammer’s 3 damage would be nice for, Most guys who are on the objective they want to grab are probably not it. Obviously, this is very meta dependent, and if we see a lot of DG, heavy intercessors, or other chunky units proliferate, the hammer might come into play again.

Vs. things with invulns, the AP on the hammer is probably enough to cut out the armor and hit the ++ save. And the extra damage is probably needed. But that’s more a captain’s job, and not a sarge’s.

I suspect that next time they do a point adjustment, the TH will drop. Right now it’s victim of GW’s wild pendulum of balancing. It’s in-line with the fist, but twice the points.

They do look cool though...

Neophyte2012 wrote:


In view of future popularity of Death Guard. I'd say we will see more TH in play. cos DR making D3 weapons "only" 50% worse while it make D2 weapons 100% worse.

Haha, can confirm -- played my first two games against deathguard. Charging ten power fist terminators into something and having them do flat 1 damage...feels bad.

Sumilidon wrote:
...I’m wondering how best to tool up my assault intercessor sgt and I am wondering what people’s opinion is on either the power fist or thunder hammer....

I'd go with the hammer or just a basic chainsword. 1 fist isn't really going to do much, and bladeguard are a way better source of flat 2 damage attacks. The hammer is a genuine threat to characters (who probably have an invul so don't care about the fists AP).

If you have the CP to spare, the hammer makes the most of honour the chapter too for deleting 3W models, or potentially more if you stick master crafting in the mix.

I would say powerfists is the stronger weapon. But I have my wolf lord on thunderwolf a thunderhammer because he will be fighting big vehicles and monsters in combat and I want a high damage potensial. This can be further improved with buffs from warlord traits and stratagems. And what I fight do not always have a good armour save.

Thunder Hammers are better than fists as damage 3 is what we really want these days and marines get an AP bonus from turn 3 to the end of the game which means that better AP Fists have over Hammers doesn't really matter. Most of the heavy stuff also has invulns so AP-2 could already be enough. Hammers are 5 points more expensive though, and that puts both weapons basically on par.

I'd say on a single dude Hammer is better, but if you need to bring several or can't really spare those extra points go for the Fists.

With SW I typically give Fists to those units that can't have Hammers like Blood Claws. Hammers (or Frost Claws) to the Wolf Lord or Wulfen, who can't have Fists. Anyone else get Chainswords or Claws.

 Blackie wrote:
Thunder Hammers are better than fists as damage 3 is what we really want these days and marines get an AP bonus from turn 3 to the end of the game which means that better AP Fists have over Hammers doesn't really matter. Most of the heavy stuff also has invulns so AP-2 could already be enough. Hammers are 5 points more expensive though, and that puts both weapons basically on par.

I'd say on a single dude Hammer is better, but if you need to bring several or can't really spare those extra points go for the Fists.

With SW I typically give Fists to those units that can't have Hammers like Blood Claws. Hammers (or Frost Claws) to the Wolf Lord or Wulfen, who can't have Fists. Anyone else get Chainswords or Claws.

Unless I’m reading something wrong or missing a FAQ, fists are 10 point upgrades, while the hammer is 20 points. So it’s not just a 5 point upgrade.

Right, there's a difference of 10 points, I thought hammers were 15 pts. I haven't played since 2.5 months.

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

 Tyranid Horde wrote:
It's the guaranteed damage from the hammer that makes them so appealing compared to a Power Fist, especially in a meta that is generally dominated by marines or the same kind of profile.

The stats changed for both weapons.

Power fist: x2 -3 2
Thunder hammer : x2 -2 3

So if you want to kill Primaris, power fist is good. If you want to kill gravis/vehicles, thunderhammer is good.
I'd say upgrade to thunderhammers if you have points for them but theyre not required.

My apologies, it's been so long since I've had a game that I've forgotten! I guess I'll err on the side of Power Fists until Gravis meta appears!

As someone stated above, TH for HQs, Fists for sergeants.

 Blackie wrote:
Right, there's a difference of 10 points, I thought hammers were 15 pts. I haven't played since 2.5 months.

Some already come with a powersword etc. For them it is only 15, but fists also cost 5 in those cirumstances. So you did remember correct 'that they cost 15.' Just under certain sircumstances.

Master crafted powerfist x2, ap-3, d3.

But otherwise powerfist. More reliable via the extra pip of AP in my mind. Otherwise chain sword for cheap and cheerful.