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This may sound a bit strange, seeing as Epic exists but...

I don't want to play epic (don't want to learn another rules at the minute for a game I'm going to play solo) and I like the bare bones of 40k (hit/wound/save) but I don't like strategems and cards etc. I don't want to play magic the gathering I want to put my minis on the table and not have to faff with extra bits.


I plan on doing infantry heavy marine Vs marine or marine Vs Ork battles (because that's what I have)

I'm going to:
-Use existing unit stats
-Use Multibased minis
-Use cities of death terrain rules
-Get rid of all cards etc
-Keep IGOUGO
-Use DENSE terrain
-figure out a flanking mechanic that punishes poor positioning or being outmanoeuvred.
-Devise a moral system or incorporate the current morale system.

The main thing that will be a massive change = casualties/damage.

-Instead of unit removal I will abstract it without actually changing much. A unit of Space Marines will still have the same ammount of wounds but will function as a whole unit until they reach 50% wounds. At which point they need to test moral - do they rout or stay out? If they don't rout they will only have half shots at this point signifying dead/wounded and pinned troops.

I think this could be pretty fun, is cheap and encourages manoeuvre and careful placement of units.

The wound (damage system) doesn't really change mechanics wise but is abstracted to simulate morale and pinning etc.

It's like my little homebrew smaller scale epic - in between 40k and epic/apocalypse.

Any suggestions to make this better? I was considering making it alternate activation but with the cover rules, starting further away and units maintaining an ability to kill stuff and stay on the board for longer, alpha strike doesn't seem like such a problem. Especially as I plan to create scenarios rather than scrabbling for objectives.

You could try the Warpath rules from mantic, as it sounds very similar to what you are trying to do.

 Hellebore wrote:
You could try the Warpath rules from mantic, as it sounds very similar to what you are trying to do.

Thanks for this!

I've just had a trawl and found the Warpath 1.0 rules which seem to essentially be KOW in space - which is actually perfect and what I'm looking for.

The only problem is that I can't find any army lists - do you know of any?

Rocinante wrote:

 Hellebore wrote:
You could try the Warpath rules from mantic, as it sounds very similar to what you are trying to do.

Thanks for this!

I've just had a trawl and found the Warpath 1.0 rules which seem to essentially be KOW in space - which is actually perfect and what I'm looking for.

The only problem is that I can't find any army lists - do you know of any?

Unsure sorry. The newest version of Warpath is a little different but similar to what you want as well.

You can download that version from mantic's site for free: https://www.manticgames.com/mantic-games-free-rules/

It has complete rules for all armies in it. It uses suppression mechanics and 5 man fire teams as the smallest unit size. That's actually the one I was referring to.

If you really want a KoW style for scifi, I would probably suggest just using the KoW game and remove the regimental movement, treating crossbows as rifles etc.

Hmm. Is it important to you to have a huge number of models in play? If not, it kind of sounds like you might just want an earlier edition of the game. You could use the 7th edition or Horus Heresy rules (or a mixture of the two) if your focus is largely on marines. No stratagems. Existing Cities of Death rules for 7th (which probably plug reasonably well into HH if you want). 7th had lots of fiddly rules and dice rolls that didn't add a lot, so you might consider cutting some of those out, but it seems like a decent foundation for what you have in mind.

Reduced profiles for damaged/pinned units seems like a cool abstraction with lots of potential. How do you intend to handle things like special weapons? If you have a 10 man tac squad with a missile launcher and a plasma gun and the unit has lost half its wounds, do you lose access to one or both of those special weapons? Or do you go the Apoc route and just abstract squad abilities in such a way that the specific weapons don't matter?

Pasting my reply from Game Design in here as well:

I think this isn't a bad starting point. A couple ideas for you WRT how to incorporate some more maneuver based elements:

Let's assume that every unit is based on a rectangular base of some sort. Units may declare shooting attacks and Fight phase attacks in an arc that extends 45 degrees out from the corner of their rectangular base.

As a part of any move, a non-flyer unit may pivot freely to face in any direction. Any attack (ranged or melee) that can draw a straight line in firing arc to the rear line of the target unit's base receives +1 to the wound roll. When a unit is charged, the pile-in move may include a free pivot to face directly towards the charging unit.

So, how do you take advantage of this if you can freely pivot during your normal movement?

-Units that are already within Engagement Range when they are charged may not Pivot

-Units that perform a Fall Back move must end their move facing directly away from units they started the turn in Engagement Range of

-Units that are Broken (more on that later) may not move, and consequently may not pivot

-Units that perform a charge move must face directly toward a unit that was a target of that charge

-Units on Overwatch (more on that later) may not move or pivot.

OK, on to Overwatch!

You're getting rid of strats, that means getting rid of Overwatch as a stratagem, so we can freely add it back in as a way to make the IGOUGO structure more interesting.

Rather than acting normally in its turn, a unit not within Engagement Range may choose to go on Overwatch. When Overwatch is declared in the movement phase, the unit may only pivot rather than moving, and may not act in the shooting, charge or fight phases later in the turn.

You may declare a unit on Overwatch will attack at any point after an opponent either completes a move during their movement phase, or declares a shooting attack or a charge during their shooting or charge phase. The unit immediately shoots as if it were your shooting phase, with a -1 penalty to all hit rolls made.

Units with abilities that would ordinarily cause them to be able to fire Overwatch shots on a number other than 6 instead fire overwatch shots without a -1 to hit penalty (E.g. the T'au subfaction trait)

And lastly morale.

The last phase of the turn is the Morale Phase. A unit must make a Leadership Test in the Morale Phase if one of three conditions have occurred:

-The unit has only a single model and that model has taken over 1/2 of its total Wounds

-The unit has taken one or more casualties that turn

-The unit is already Broken

To take a Leadership Test roll 2d6. If the result exceeds the highest Leadership value in the unit, the unit is Broken. A Broken unit may not end its move closer to the closest enemy unit, must declare a Fall Back move if it begins its turn in Engagement Range of one or more enemy units, and may not declare shooting attacks or charges. A Broken unit receives -1 to hit rolls and -1 to wound rolls if it fights in the fight phase. (if it is charged by an enemy unit, for example).

Broken units wholly on or within terrain may re-roll their leadership test if they fail.

Any unit with an ability that limits modifiers to Attrition Tests instead automatically succeeds their leadership test if they must take it only because they are currently Broken and not because they have taken casualties. (E.g. the Angels of Death rule)

A unit with an ability that limits casualties taken due to morale instead may still act normally while Broken, but suffers a -1 to all hit rolls and wound rolls while Broken. (E.g. the Grim Resolve rule)

Wyldhunt wrote:
...Reduced profiles for damaged/pinned units seems like a cool abstraction with lots of potential. How do you intend to handle things like special weapons? If you have a 10 man tac squad with a missile launcher and a plasma gun and the unit has lost half its wounds, do you lose access to one or both of those special weapons? Or do you go the Apoc route and just abstract squad abilities in such a way that the specific weapons don't matter?...

In 6mm or 15mm scales one "squad" usually represents a smaller fireteam rather than something like a full Tactical squad, and usually has one health. A Flames of War 1HP infantry base, for instance, is usually either four riflemen or a 2-4-man team weapon with one heavy weapon.