Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Just had a bit of a brainwave regarding Tau empire. Even though i don't play the army i always found that the blue communist always felt underwhelming in terms of their play style.

So i thought of some idea's on how it could be improved and decided to post it here for comments/discussions/criticism.

Do note this is what i feel could be for tau empire, not what GW might think up.

First thing i have to bring up is markerlights, the second most iconic niche that tau have. And also it's most lackluster and hard clutch mechanic.

As it stands, markerlights are garbage, a huge amount of effort for minuscule returns until you hit the threshold (which is 5)

Instead, i thought of bringing the old school into the new school by bringing markerlights back to it's roots, but in a 9th edition way.

Markerlights
A projected holo-beam illuminates the target, providing advanced targetting and telemetry data that renders the target vulnurable to precise and pinpoint fusilades from supporting units. This uploaded data in turn is connected through a sophisticated targeting and prediction network can also be used to predict and anticipate the enemies next move if additional data is provided.

At the beginning of the command phase, units equiped with models containing at least one markerlight can use their markerlights as an action.Select a visible enemy unit as part of this action and roll a D6 for each model in the unit with a markerlight, subtracting one from the result if the model is a DRONE, on a 2+, the uplink is successful and the enemy unit receives a makerlight counter, VEHICLE and CHARACTER models count as three markerlight counters instead.
This action is completed at the end of the movement phase (VEHICLE and CHARACTER units count this as completed at the beginning of the movement phase instead). If a unit fails the action then the markerlight counters are discarded from the enemy unit. These markerlight counters remain on the enemy unit until your next command phase.

At the beginning of any phase, you can discard any number of marketlight counters on an enemy unit to activate one or more abilities from the table below, when selecting an ability you must discard the number of markerlights needed from the total pool of markerlights on the enemy unit. Unless specified, friendly T'AU EMPIRE models that target the enemy unit benefit from that effect until the end of the phase. Do note that multiple effects can be selected on the same unit, providing the unit has a sufficient amount of markerlight counters.


Markerlight Table

MARKERLIGHTS NEEDED/ BENEFIT
1 You can Re-roll hit rolls of 1 for TA'U EMPIRE models attacking this unit
2 Destroyer and seeker missiles fired at this unit use the firing model's Balistic Skill (and any modifiers) rather than only hitting on 6's.
3 The target unit does not gain any bonus to its saving throws for being in cover
4 T’AU EMPIRE models attacking this unit do not suffer the penalty for moving and firing Heavy weapons or Advancing and firing Assault weapons.
5 Add 1 to hit rolls for T’AU EMPIRE models attacking this unit.
6 You can re roll any hit rolls for T'AU EMPIRE models attacking this unit
7 You can re roll any wound rolls for T'AU EMPIRE models attacking this unit
8 Add 1 to wound rolls for T'AU EMPIRE models attacking this unit
9 An unmodified hit roll of 6 scores 1 additional hit for T'AU EMPIRE models attacking this unit


As you can see, the markerlights work slightly different, for one thing they are now an action, and are now successful on a 2+ rather than BS, with drones being a 3+ cause drones. I did make it so there was one downside, that being the action is done at the end of the movement phase, so that means that units have to forgo their movement to 'mark' a target. but this also means there is no range limit anymore, only sight restrictions.

The effects follow the old 4/5th edition Tau empire rules, where you spent counters to give effects, ive expanded the table and added some pretty good power play abilities on the bottom half of the table, but this opens up to the first restriction ive given this, which is you only have x amount of marker lights in your army and too many targets, which opens up to different styles of play, the one hitter quiter strat for that single priority threat, or spread the love and try and go for a wider net of enemies, the choice is up to the player.

To compliment these, i have also tweaked the stratagems that make or use their own sets of markerlights.

UPLINKED MARKERLIGHT 1CP
T’au Empire Stratagem
Some markerlights are uplinked directly into the T’au command network, enabling a much faster and more accurate tactical targeting support.
Use this stratagem after an enemy unit has been targeted by a unit using a markerlight. The enemy unit receives double the amount of markerlights instead.

Pretty straightforward, you want something marked to die? then mark it, effectively doubling a markerlight units markerlight counter output, handy if you are tight on markerlight support.

AERIAL TARGETING 3CP
T’au Empire Stratagem
Air caste pilots sweep over the battlefield, identifying prime targets for destruction.
Use this stratagem during the command phase. Select one enemy unit. Until the end of that phase, any markerlights that target an enemy unit also target this unit aswell.

This is the strat i have HEAVILY modified, it now makes it so you can do a set and forget to an extra unit, say like something that you want to be taken out but wish you could mark other targets, for 3 CP i feel this is a fair deal for a strong stratagem.

COORDINATED ENGAGEMENT 2CP
T’au Empire Stratagem
T’au combined arms groups are called Hunter Cadres for good reason. Working in close coordination, they hunt and destroy the most dangerous enemy targets.
Use this Stratagem at the beginning of your Shooting phase. Select one XV8 CRISIS BATTLESUITS or XV8 CRISIS BODYGUARDS unit from your army, and select one enemy unit. Until the end of that phase, when resolving an attack made by a model in that XV8 CRISIS BATTLESUITS or XV8 CRISIS BODYGUARDS unit against that enemy unit, treat that unit as having 15 markerlight counters.

This is the greater good strat that everyone and their dog uses, so i just tweaked it so you have flexibility for that unit of crisis units, this is the niche strat for when you want to ensure you save markerlights for other units and can easily respond to your opponents elite or 'dangerous' units.

Anyway. that's all i got for now, ill add on to this from time to time, leave your comments, suggestions and tweaks below

Character markerlights were OP in 8th, making them three times as effective as regular markerlights is a bad idea.

Expanding the markerlight table is a bad idea, it makes it very hard to remember the whole table.

The whole mechanic is very involved compared to the current system, making them work in melee is also weird. I don't really buy that markerlights are bad, they were used in most lists in 8th and they seem to still get used in 9th, markerlights are not what is holding Tau back. Making the mechanic too strong risks making Tau into the markerlight faction when it is just one tool in their toolbox and not one that everyone has bought into with their model collection.

Unless you get 9 markerlights your system, for all its strength it doesn't help flamers one bit and if you are putting 9 markerlights on something then you basically hit automatically anyway so why shoot flamers at the target? So with your system, you are pushing people away from using flamers and towards fielding other types of units, particularly long-ranged ones that synergise with your infinite range markerlights.

Unless you get 9 markerlights your system, for all its strength it doesn't help flamers one bit and if you are putting 9 markerlights on something then you basically hit automatically anyway so why shoot flamers at the target? So with your system, you are pushing people away from using flamers and towards fielding other types of units, particularly long-ranged ones that synergise with your infinite range markerlights.

Which is exactly what i am going for, because it means that there is more variety among what weapons people will use, rather than being one trick ponies.

The single most annoying thing about the meta at the moment is the fact that most list are copy-pasted from high tournament list, with a small amount of tweaks.

That is a stagnant meta and falls back to the codex creep of old editions.

The whole mechanic is very involved compared to the current system, making them work in melee is also weird. I don't really buy that markerlights are bad, they were used in most lists in 8th and they seem to still get used in 9th, markerlights are not what is holding Tau back. Making the mechanic too strong risks making Tau into the markerlight faction when it is just one tool in their toolbox and not one that everyone has bought into with their model collection.

The thing is, this is a mechanic that is unique to Tau and tau alone, no other faction has a mechanic that is similar to the markerlight system. And this is what separates Tau from any other armies. In fact other armies have mechanics that are unique to them and is exclusive to them (Canticles to mechanicum/Combat Doctrines with astartes/Orders for imperial guard/Synapse and shadow of the warp for tyranids/Cult ambush for GSC/Expanded psyker powers for Eldar/Invulnurable saves for daemons) the list goes for every faction, this is Tau's niche mechanic. Implying thattau will devolve into a 'markerlight faction' implies nothing because that is their own unique mechanic. And it is up to a player if they want to use it or not.

Again, as a person that doesn't play Tau empire, yet has seen and know people who play it alot, I am not tied down to things that tau players scream should be better. Rather i look at their mechanics from a design and intention perspective and try and find out what could make this mechanic work for them.

Also, for the CC, it gives tau players at least some form of fighting in CC, which is traditionally their worst phase, instead of making them into a shooting only army, which is a massive design flaw in the army itself, i have thought of ways to make them somewhat rounded into their weakness, not too much as to make them suddenly a good all rounder, but just enough to give them a way to defend themselves should they be stuck in melee

The latter part you say is pretty easy, you just have to make the auxiliary species worth anything in melee, since they currently aren't.

Honestly I wouldn't be bothered by expending markerlights for BS buffs, like in the earlier editions. Perhaps units over a value needing 2 markerlights per point of BS to stop a single markerlight being all you need for a riptide. expending 4 markerlights to get a bs2 riptide feels about right.

I'm saying this as someone who'd be on the receiving end of the tau dakka mind you.

Maybe other tasks such as hitting out of LOS for a few markerlights, remove cover as usual, autohitting seeker missles that sort of thing. It'd keep the markerlight buffs and make them feel valuable. Also not needing you to shove a whole armies worth of lights onto a single unit to get any sort of value out of them.

I agree with most of vict's points. Having that many unique effects to remember (especially if you find yourself marker lighting multiple enemy units thus having different markerlight levels to track) seems a bit much. I'm also not a fan of giving the supposedly mobile tau army yet another reason to hold still (on top of Kau'yon, fireblade/ethereal buffs, and FtGG). Plus, I remember tau players complaining about feeling they were forced to stuff their army to the gills with markerlights back in the day because said markerlights were a bit too important for their army.

I'd actually go the other way with markerlights:

* Let all markerlights in the army be shot at the start of the shooting phase before any of the pew pew guns shoot. This just cleans things up a bit, keeps the "plan your firing solution in advance" feeling, and leaves markerlights susceptible to reduced accuracy due to running and gunning, smoke screens, etc.

* Each time a target is hit by a markerlight, place a markerlight counter next to it.

* Ditch the markerlight table entirely. Instead, introduce "markerlight stratagems." Markerlight stratagems always target an enemy unit with one or more markerlight counters. You can pay for them with command points per usual OR by expending markerlight counters. So markerlights basically make targets eligible targets for certain strats and give your army extra command points.

* Markerlight strats are basically what you'd expect; tau empire units shooting at the markerlit unit get bonuses against that unit. You can make that bonuses to to-hit rolls, to-wound rolls, bonuses to the damage of rail weapons, whatever. Each such benefit can be priced an appropriate CP cost, and you can have multiple effects that require the same amount of CP (rather than making shooting missiles or ignoring cover require a ton of 'lights for the sake of having a sequential table).

This would also make markerlights benefit your whole army against a marked target. Which I like. Why does the glowy light get "used up" when someone accesses the targeting data it provides? Does the tau empire have really crappy load balancing on its markerlight server farm? Also also, this means that a single markerlight gives you access to the full suite of your markerlight abilities. No more seeker missiles that become useless when your pathfinder teams get wiped.

So instead of a 9 step chart of potential benefits and a new mechanic for shooting-but-not-shooting markerlights, we can more or less streamline the system into existing game mechanics while both making markerlights more flexible/useful and also reducing the need to take a ton of them.

OTHER STUFF ON MY TAU WISHLIST
* Give Kroot a second melee attack and a bit more love in general. They don't need to be death company tier combatants, but they should be reasonably threatening to non-melee units.

*Free kroot outflank/strategic reserves would be nice.

* Give vespid just a small melee boost. Maybegive the sergeant a modest melee weapon option or two. Giant bug aliens should be so easy to make cool, and giving tau a half-decent countercharge unit would do a lot for their playstyle.

* Turn Kau'yon/Mont'Ka into the tau version of doctrines. Choose which one you're using before the game, and gain that option's first set of abilities. At any point in the game, you can swap out your first set of abilities for a second set. So Mont'Ka might start off with abilities that encourage using mobility to get into position or to focus down key targets. Then, when your commander declares you've killed the thing you came to kill, you switch to abilities that let you retreat in good order. Kau'yon would start off with abilities that let you infiltrate or escape harm (the bait/setting the trap), then switch to abilities that let you punish isolated enemy units or enemy units that you fell back from that turn (the trap is sprung).

* Replace the various HQ auras with guard-style orders. Preferably ones that bring back some of the tau mobility they've been lacking. Example:
--Let units move after shooting.
--Let a unit hold its fire so it can shoot an enemy unit when it arrives from reserves.
--Let a crisis suit unit treat their guns as having the Pistol type that turn.

* Rip off the GSC brood brothers rules to give tau some "human helper" options.

*Make savior protocols a shield-drones-only rule, and then put a 1 per 3 or 2 per 5 limit on how many shield drones can be taken in a squad of drones. This would basically remove shield drone spam without reducing shield drones to ablative wounds, and you could price other drones appropriately; they'd basically go back to being a tougher, faster, less accurate rifle platform.

I completely agree with Kroot getting a second attack.

Regarding Vespid, not sure what to do to boost their melee. Probably two attacks and then one additional one that wounds strictly on a 4+ on non-vehicles?

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I completely agree with Kroot getting a second attack.

Regarding Vespid, not sure what to do to boost their melee. Probably two attacks and then one additional one that wounds strictly on a 4+ on non-vehicles?

An extra attack and then give the squad leader some cool, insectoid, organic weapons. Pincers that incorporate the same crystals as their guns so they can deal with heavy infantry. Venom stingers for those beefy, poorly-armored targets. Something like that. Though maybe semi-organic weaponry like that overlaps too much with kroot shapeshifting. I like the idea of vespid being choppy enough to give dedicated shooting units in the back field a hard time but not being a dedicated melee unit overall. But then having the option to make the squad leader killy enough to challenge units that aren't worthless in melee. Sort of like how the nob in a storm boy squad does most of the heavy lifting even though storm boyz aren't awful at melee.

mchammadad wrote:
The thing is, this is a mechanic that is unique to Tau and tau alone, no other faction has a mechanic that is similar to the markerlight system. And this is what separates Tau from any other armies. In fact other armies have mechanics that are unique to them and is exclusive to them (Canticles to mechanicum/Combat Doctrines with astartes/Orders for imperial guard/Synapse and shadow of the warp for tyranids/Cult ambush for GSC/Expanded psyker powers for Eldar/Invulnurable saves for daemons) the list goes for every faction, this is Tau's niche mechanic. Implying that tau will devolve into a 'markerlight faction' implies nothing because that is their own unique mechanic. And it is up to a player if they want to use it or not.

A mechanic's uniqueness should not decide how powerful it is. Even if Tau were just Space Marines with markerlights then markerlights should still not be an overpowered must-bring mechanic. Every SM psychic discipline is unique, should they all be massively complicated and powerful?

Again, as a person that doesn't play Tau empire, yet has seen and know people who play it alot, I am not tied down to things that tau players scream should be better. Rather i look at their mechanics from a design and intention perspective and try and find out what could make this mechanic work for them.

I have no idea what Tau players scream should be better, I think it is a pretty common opinion both inside and outside the Tau community that the alien auxiliaries should see a decent amount of play because being a faction of multiple races is one of the things that makes Tau unique. Do the people you know never bring markerlights? If the mechanic doesn't work then why do people bring markerlights?

mchammadad wrote:

Unless you get 9 markerlights your system, for all its strength it doesn't help flamers one bit and if you are putting 9 markerlights on something then you basically hit automatically anyway so why shoot flamers at the target? So with your system, you are pushing people away from using flamers and towards fielding other types of units, particularly long-ranged ones that synergise with your infinite range markerlights.

Which is exactly what i am going for, because it means that there is more variety among what weapons people will use, rather than being one trick ponies.

The single most annoying thing about the meta at the moment is the fact that most list are copy-pasted from high tournament list, with a small amount of tweaks.

That is a stagnant meta and falls back to the codex creep of old editions.

The whole mechanic is very involved compared to the current system, making them work in melee is also weird. I don't really buy that markerlights are bad, they were used in most lists in 8th and they seem to still get used in 9th, markerlights are not what is holding Tau back. Making the mechanic too strong risks making Tau into the markerlight faction when it is just one tool in their toolbox and not one that everyone has bought into with their model collection.

The thing is, this is a mechanic that is unique to Tau and tau alone, no other faction has a mechanic that is similar to the markerlight system. And this is what separates Tau from any other armies. In fact other armies have mechanics that are unique to them and is exclusive to them (Canticles to mechanicum/Combat Doctrines with astartes/Orders for imperial guard/Synapse and shadow of the warp for tyranids/Cult ambush for GSC/Expanded psyker powers for Eldar/Invulnurable saves for daemons) the list goes for every faction, this is Tau's niche mechanic. Implying thattau will devolve into a 'markerlight faction' implies nothing because that is their own unique mechanic. And it is up to a player if they want to use it or not.

Again, as a person that doesn't play Tau empire, yet has seen and know people who play it alot, I am not tied down to things that tau players scream should be better. Rather i look at their mechanics from a design and intention perspective and try and find out what could make this mechanic work for them.

Also, for the CC, it gives tau players at least some form of fighting in CC, which is traditionally their worst phase, instead of making them into a shooting only army, which is a massive design flaw in the army itself, i have thought of ways to make them somewhat rounded into their weakness, not too much as to make them suddenly a good all rounder, but just enough to give them a way to defend themselves should they be stuck in melee

Having played Tau since their introduction to the game in 3rd Markerlights were not and have never been their unique thing thier defining factor.

It was that Crisis suits could Jump (movement) shoot (shooting phase) then Jump again(charge phase).
Yeah that mechanic that GW decided was OP on crisis suits but handed out to all eldar infantry & guard tanks FFS.

Tau were supoosed to be almost the eldar version of guard
Esentially more mobile and with more focused units however needing to leverage manoeuvring and unit special rules to win out.
Simply put standing in front of opponents on plannet bowling ball got Tau killed.

Back then Markerlights were pathfinders specific.
Also Kroot were actually better at Close combat than they are now, back then they had 3 times the attacks they have now on the charge and double ever other turn, not that second turn melee performance matters when you have no save.

Take your markerlights and shove them.

Your post just reinforces my opinion that who ever wrote the 8th edition codex had never actually played the dang army they just wrote the codex for.

Charictor markerlights in 8th was a thing becuase charictor targeting was broken, and the other codex option died to being looked at for more than 3 seconds.

Adding JSJ back to Crisis suits may actually be a good solution.

Part of the reason shooting armies are struggling at the moment is it takes them a whole turn after clearing an objective to move onto and take it. Not only is that a turn they don't score, but it's a turn the enemy has to retake and reinforce that objective.

Melee units on the otherhand can simultaneously kill the unit on an objective and take it, then defend that objective going forwards.

Giving Tau JSJ back will give them the ability to do that. Shoot a unit off of an objective and then jump onto it in the charge phase.
Is being able to hide behind buildings instead OP? Probably not given they're giving up the objective to do so.

You could also make Fireblades more interesting. Instead of just "stand still to shoot better", perhaps give them Imperial Guard style orders to them order Firewarriors to move perhaps.
Although that's Imperial Guard's thing so probably not.

Or make Kauyon/Montka fit into this.

I agree that Markerlights should be just a tool in the toolbox for Tau, it should not define the army.

One of the more consistent problems with Tau is that the faction identity's been all screwed up since the Riptide's introduction and whilst it was okay for 6th and most of 7th, its gone off the rails particularly in 8th. As far as things to resolve the issues with Tau, I think it needs a deeper look into how to return some of that feel, and also enhance their effectiveness.

Current weaknesses really are anemic suit firepower caused by the 8th weapon transition, a markerlight system that doesn't work, and of course, the lack of Jump Shoot Jump. Assault moves really did kill the ascending science based semi modern combined arms theme they had.

Reintroducing Jump Shoot Jump is pretty simple, as you just allow the Suit to make a Normal Move during the Charge Phase, which allows one to shoot stuff off an objective and still take it. Perhaps restricting it to a maximum of 8" in keeping with the basic crisis suit movement band.
As for suit firepower, the transition to 8th shows in some weapons that were staples never existing any more. I think transitioning Missile Pods to flat 3 damage at their current shot output is probably a good choice, providing a little more punch. Plasma Rifles just need to be Assault 2 18" D2 in keeping with the shorter ranged themed of the weapons in the arsenal and to counteract their normal target being a 2W model. Still keep it at S6 AP-3 though. Fusion's in a decent place, just give it modern Melta rules and call it a good one. Flamer's a flamer, the 12" range buff it already got helps it drastically. Burst Cannon needs to be the supreme budget option, and if keeping the same statline, it needs to be essentially dirt cheap. Cyclic Ion's a weird weapon still, maybe increasing shotcount and making it Flat D2 for the overcharge profile over the D3 damage.
A final change for suits that really should just happen if they're going to be charge for as much as GW thinks they're worth is to make them BS3+ instead of 4+.

As far as the markerlight system, honestly, the classical system might be the better pick. Obviously hit buffs are restricted to a maximum of +1, but they can stack to counteract debuffs. Make the Markerlight a command phase weapon to take advantage of it, allowing units to tag then continue on their turn comfortably, maybe just skipping out on the hit roll entirely for either a flat 2+ or automatic. 1 Markerlight expended for +1 to hit, with the ability to spend multiple to counteract negatives. 2 Markerlights expended to ignore Light Cover, and 1 Markerlight to fire a Seeker Missile/Destroyer Missile at maybe an increased profile over the standard profile instead of making them able to hit 'better'

Have an exalt, AegistFate. I agree with pretty much all of that. (Although I still prefer other ways of handling markerlights.)

Just a note about JSJ: it was considered really frustrating back in the day partly because blasting your opponent off the table from the relative safety of your backfield was often a viable route to victory. These days, hopping out of line of sight will often mean you're not diving onto the oh-so-important objectives.

Also, shrinking the size of the table means that it's harder to kite those melee units that are trying to cross the table to run you down. I've also found that there generally aren't a ton of riptide-sized hiding spaces in a given player's deployment zone.

So with all that in mind, I don't think that JSJ would be the huge frustration that it was in the past. I'd love to see tau and aeldari both get some JSJ options back.

I haven't pulled my Tau army out in several editions. Looking at the rules for Kroot, my first impression is WTF???? Why the hell are their squad leaders a separate elites choice? They will NEVER be chosen over other options.

I also think there is room for Kroot hounds and Kroot Oxen to be BOTH units in their own right, and added into Kroot carnivore squads.

 cuda1179 wrote:
I haven't pulled my Tau army out in several editions. Looking at the rules for Kroot, my first impression is WTF???? Why the hell are their squad leaders a separate elites choice? They will NEVER be chosen over other options.

Shapers in the elite slot maybe worked slightly better in 8th when you wanted to fill out as many slots as possible to fill out detachments and get CP. Now, it's slightly more awkward. Shapers should probably be HQs rather than elites, at least if you're taking a "kroot" detachment or something (ala the recent DA rules). That said, shapers as separate characters is consistent with what they did with a bunch of units in 8th. Runtherds are separate from gretchin now, for instance.

I also think there is room for Kroot hounds and Kroot Oxen to be BOTH units in their own right, and added into Kroot carnivore squads.

Interesting. How do you picture that working? From my perspective, krootox riders only benefit from being in a carnivore squad (and would thus never be taken on their own) while hounds would be slowed down by the non-hound models (and would thus only be taken on their own). Do you have anything particular in mind?

I really want Tau to return to their previous mobile origins.
I played the army through 5th, but moved on in 6th because they just weren't the army I loved anymore.
FtGG, Riptides, and Fireblades really solidified them as a gunline as mobility was largely redundant for most units.

I'd like to see a return to JSJ for tau, and for a rework of markerlights. I agree that markerlights shouldn't be the defining characteristic of Tau.

IIRC Space Marines already have JSJ as a special rule for Eliminators, so I see no reason why Crisis suits shouldn't have a similar rule.

In 8th edition space marines codex 2.0, eliminators had a rule where the squad could get +1 to hit and to wound if the sergeant didn't fire. I could see a rule like this being used for Markerlights. This wouldn't work for a squad equipped with only markerlights, so something would need to be done there, but I'd much prefer something like this over the current system of accumulating markerlights on a target to gain different bonuses.

As a new FSE player (well, army builder at this point), I think some of the suits weapons should have a melee profile. Basically, all fusion blasters get a fusion blade profile, and flamers/plasma rifles also get a melee profile. Have it be that the Tau can adjust the weapon range/intensity based on proximity, etc. At least some of the tau could then be useful in assault.

I think to make Tau work, GW needs to scrap their special rules as they exist and recast them to do the following:

1. Give then a meaningful way to take and hold objectives

2. Play to their twin-combat styles of Kauyon and Mont'ka

3. Make Markerlights both meaningful and simple to use

My thought on Markerlights would be to divide them into two groups, standard and networked. The standard markerlight works only for the unit that has it, while the networked allows you to give the same abilities to a different unit in the army when it fires at that target. When fired at a unit, a Markerlight allows the unit off the bearer to do one a few simple things:

The unit may re-roll 1's to Hit

The target unit does not benefit from Heavy Cover

Gain +1 to Hit target unit if the unit is imposing a negative modifier to hit it

Select unit in your army that has one or more unfired Seeker Missiles. One of its Seeker Missile counts as fired. Execute an attack with a Seeker Missile against the target unit.

Ways to play around with Kauyon and Mont'ka would be to give select units abilities that support the concept rather than the Waaghish Master of War ability. Let's use the Cadre Fireblade as a sample unit.

First, a few bookkeeping items:

Breacher Teams, Strike Teams, and Pathfinder Teams all gain the Firewarrior keyword

Pulse Blaster: R 15, Assault 2, S4, AP -1, D 1, Ability: If within half Range the attack is S5 AP -2

Cadre Fireblades lose Volley Fire and gain Firewarrior Leader.

Firewarrior Leader: During your Command phase of the turn, select one of the two auras below. All Cadre Fireblades in your army have that aura until your next Command Phase.

Firewarrior Kauyon (Aura): All models in<<Sept>> Firewarrior units within 6" always count as if within 1/2 maximum distance for pulse weapons. They still must be within maximum range to fire on a target unit.

Firewarrior Mont'ka (Aura): All models in<<Sept>> Firewarrior units within 6" may fire pulse weapons during the Shooting phase even if they Fell Back or Advanced that turn. They do not suffer -1 To Hit when firing Assault weapons if they Advanced.

Now you have the option of bringing the pain or moving quickly.

Was going to post this in another thread but here feela more appropriate

 catbarf wrote:
Back in the day, Fire Warriors slagged a Rhino in an average of just 9 hits, so it wouldn't be that unreasonable to make them D2.

I mean, people are saying it'd break the game with anti-vehicle damage as if Stalker Bolt Rifles don't already exist. Take a comparison vs T8/3+ at 24", turn 1:

[edit: math where I forget an SBR doesn't get to bolter discipline out two shots, never mind!]

But I don't think D2 is especially likely; AP-1 seems a more reasonable change, now that S5/AP-1/D1 is no longer a heavy bolter profile. Wounding Marines on 3s and reducing them to a 4+ save is pretty spicy for a 30" rifle on a sub-10pt platform.

Except marine player's say that like they're troops deserve to be imune to dying to other infantry weapons
Using the Free AP and shoot twice for marines. Point for point on troops the shooting faction is laughably bad per point.

Heavy intercessors 140p
Vrs T8 3+ 1.48W
Vrs T4 3+ 2.96W

Intercessors 140p
Vrs T8 3+ 1.04W
Vrs T4 3+ 3.11W

Firewarriors 140p
Vrs T8 3+ .89W
Vrs T4 3+ 1.78W

FFS making them D2 would drag them into line with shooting marines at
Vrs T8 3+ 1.78W
Vrs T4 3+ 3.56W

AP-1 does diddly
Vrs T8 3+ 1.33W
Vrs T4 3+ 2.67W

BS 3+
Vrs T8 3+ 1.19W
Vrs T4 3+ 2.37W

Sadly starting to thing pulse weapons are going to need D2
Plasma will need D2, missle pods D3 and generally a lot of work to make TAU firepower way more effective in changing the game state.

my suggestions for fixing the tau:


generally, im in favour of brining in new xenos auxillia to cover the taus weak spots.

give them at least one, or prefferably two, CC options for counter attacks and storming objectives. buff the Kroot as one, and maybe add a new race as another (or introduce a CC crisis suit varient, if you prefer that line of thinking). these dont need to be super strong, but strong enough that they are a threat the enemy must honour and deal with, or face problems (sort of like how the CC options in the Admech list are)

Introduce the Nicassar into the 40k tau list. They are form the Battlefleet Gothic specialist game, and are explicitly strong psykers with a telekinetic focus. they would give the Tau options in the psychic phase and, agian, create threats the enemy must account for and deal with.

Tau shooting should be stronger than imperial shooting, plain and simple. Whatever the main bolter variant is, the pulse rifle should be better than that weapon. most other guns should also be strictly superior to the imperial versions because Tau are suppose to be the best shooting army in the game.

my feel on the markerlights is that they should be a replacement for the squad heavy weapon found in most armies (ie the missile launcher/heavy bolter/splinter cannon etc). i feel this should be a case of tau doctrine, of putting the heavy guns on tanks and other platforms to reduce the load on the infantry. maybe allow them to call in off-table seeker missles?

@alextroy: I'm onboard with most of that. Sounds like a fun playstyle to me!

xerxeskingofking wrote:
my suggestions for fixing the tau:

generally, im in favour of brining in new xenos auxillia to cover the taus weak spots.

give them at least one, or prefferably two, CC options for counter attacks and storming objectives. buff the Kroot as one, and maybe add a new race as another (or introduce a CC crisis suit varient, if you prefer that line of thinking). these dont need to be super strong, but strong enough that they are a threat the enemy must honour and deal with, or face problems (sort of like how the CC options in the Admech list are)

Totally agree. If we can't get a bunch of new xenos kits, then kroot and vespid can probably fill this niche reasonably well. They don't need to win melee against enemy melee specialists; they just need to be good enough at either tarpitting (to rescue escaping tau shooty units) or killy enough to bully enemy non-melee-specialists. They don't need to be BGV or incubi; being banshees would be fine.

Introduce the Nicassar into the 40k tau list. They are form the Battlefleet Gothic specialist game, and are explicitly strong psykers with a telekinetic focus. they would give the Tau options in the psychic phase and, agian, create threats the enemy must account for and deal with.

I know a lot of people want to see the nicassar on the tabletop, but I personally don't. We know approxomitely three things about the flat bears:
1.) They're very strong telekineticists.
2.) They're so physically unimpressive that they have to use hover chairs to get around on tau ships.
3.) They are (or at least were) a very carefully kept tau secret.
Two of those three things don't lend themselves to sticking your psyker bears on the battlefield.

If we want tau psykers, guavessa, kroot, or some random new species could all fill that role without contradicting the existing nicassar fluff. If we really want rules for nicassar specifically, some sort of "telekinetic meteor strike" stratagem might be a more appropriate way of representing them.

Tau shooting should be stronger than imperial shooting, plain and simple. Whatever the main bolter variant is, the pulse rifle should be better than that weapon. most other guns should also be strictly superior to the imperial versions because Tau are suppose to be the best shooting army in the game.

Partially agree. Pulse weapons should definitely feel more "advanced" than lasguns and bolters. However, whatever firepower they have needs to be paid for and probably shouldn't invalidate the durability of other factions. I don't want a fire warrior to suddenly cost 20 points and be able to reliably down a space marine with every shot. Between their high strength and long reach, pulse weapons already feel about right to me. Breacher weapons pack offense comparable to an eldar plasma weapon ("star cannons") on a regular troop model at the cost of requiring that troop to get in uncomfortably close. This also feels about right to me.

Plus, while tau firepower should generally feel superior to imperium firepower (unless we're in a quantity vs quality scenario), that doesn't necessarily mean that tau firepower should be superior at every level. I'm okay with pulse weapons just feeling on par with bolters so long as a railhead packs more of a punch than a lascannon predator.

my feel on the markerlights is that they should be a replacement for the squad heavy weapon found in most armies (ie the missile launcher/heavy bolter/splinter cannon etc). i feel this should be a case of tau doctrine, of putting the heavy guns on tanks and other platforms to reduce the load on the infantry. maybe allow them to call in off-table seeker missles?

I like the general direction you're going here, but I"m not sure basically turning a markerlight into a heavy weapon with more steps is the way to go. Plus, buffing the shooting of your friends does a lot to convey the selfless, collectivist nature of the tau.

xerxeskingofking wrote:
Tau shooting should be stronger than imperial shooting, plain and simple. Whatever the main bolter variant is, the pulse rifle should be better than that weapon. most other guns should also be strictly superior to the imperial versions because Tau are suppose to be the best shooting army in the game.

Don't underestimate how versatile S5 weapons are. Most other armies pay at least 5 pts, usually 10 pts, to upgrade their S4 weapons to S5.

Tau is by lore, "more advanced" in technology. It has never implied Tau as a race as a whole are better shooters.