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So I also recently posted up about specs for a new PC, but I then got to thinking that PC upgrades are something I've done and done and its a hobby I get great joy out of but I've "done" it for years. Perhaps its time for something new* and how about one of those 3D printers all the cool kids are getting.


A few hours videos and youtubes and reviews and sales sites and I've bamboozled my own brain our my ears and not really got any firm ideas on what I'm looking at. I'm aware there's another thread on the same/similar subject, but I wanted to start my own both to get answers unique to my situation, but also so I can air my own thoughts and sort some of my own confusion/research out formally as well.


My desires are to print high quality models, so intricate designs rather than basic blocky terrain stuff. My duel hope is to not only ease my desire for creative fancy models (steering me away from Kickstarters a bit) but also to have high quality models to paint up and actually get painting practice on things (because when I buy models I end up not painting them much because I have high standards and low skills and need more practice time to improve the latter).

My budget is around £1K ish - its a rough value because I'm not sure what extras I'll need specifically ontop of the machine itself and because its hard to estimate a budget when one isn't quite sure of the product range itself and the variations in quality of machine and casting.


From my limited research so far a few things have come to light:
First up that a resin 3d printer is the most ideal currently (at least without going way way beyond budget) for achieving high detail fine results for printing:
1) 4K resolution is very desirable for high quality models. Though noting that the lcd screen size also needs to be considered since bigger screens at the same resolution mean less fine detail since the pixels are larger.

2) Monochrome screen is a must to cut down on printing time and also dramatically increase lifespan of the screen before it needs replacing.

3) Cleaning and curing are key steps and whilst they can be done manually (wash and leave in the sun) there are cleaning machines on the market that do both (easier cleanup phase and good on a dark wintery day when the sun is hiding).

4) Stock seems to be an issue with some brands in the UK and in general. There appears to be a few that run in and out of stock all the time or those that have issues with the supply of spare parts.


A few makes/models have come to light as possible considerations

Phrozen Sonic Mini 4K 3D Printer - though I seem to find it easier to find negative reviews on this one, though that might just be a higher use rate and because its the one I started searching on. A poster in the forum already has 2 threads highlighting issues with this printer and a few youtube videos have found issue as well with the arm motions and with alignments of the lower lcd
This video highlights a fix by removing sealing tape and replacing it with thinner tape https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTUhHnlZ6-8

The Sonic Mighty 4K 3D Printer appears to be a more durable build, but at the same time its printing the same resolution on a larger plate so the overall resolution x/y reduces.

This site (sorry its a bit popup heavy) seemed to be about the best at least showing comparable resolutions in all three axis for easy comparison and suggests that the Sonic Mini supports pretty much the best in its price weight for resolutions
https://all3dp.com/1/best-resin-dlp-sla-3d-printer-kit-stereolithography/
In fact the XY of the sonic mini 4K at 35microns appears to beat even some quite significantly more expensive models.



ELEGOO SATURN - appears to get some really good reviews, but also seems that Elegroo has stocking issues in general (esp in the UK?) and the Saturn appears to be something that they can't keep in stock at present. Might be worth considering or could be a golden goose that's just always out of stock unless you're lucky?


I did find others but I'll have to pause here because its late and I'm like as not half mixing up brands/research on them by now and I've not even started on other items like wash/cure stations.




*I'm going stark crazy in lockdowns probably

The issue with the Sonic Mini4k (honestly one of the absolute highest pixel density hobby grade printers on the market) is one of inconsistent QC. PERIOD.

There are some "design flaws" that when stacked with random quality control result in dissatisfaction.

Honestly their tech team is working directly with me. Sure, it's a 24 hour cycle but that's what it means to communicate to the other side of the world. A product with a domestic support team would probably be "superior", presuming their team is on the ball.

The Mighty has 2 rails, 2 rails vastly greater stability than 1. This is one problem I am having. The displaced layer lines are from vagueness in the up-down location (slight shifts of micro-meters shows up visually).

Saturn seems nice. It was what I was going to get but it has some pluses and minuses.

Looking back? I dunno. The saturn has a lower pixel density but it seems less troubled by QC.

Stocking on it has proven very limited.

Everyone and their grand-ma wants 4K. Demand is HUGE. Same thing with the Sonic 4K resin (EVERYONE wants it). It took me a month to get it without having to pay the 50 buck shipping from Taiwan.

I have not researched this myself, but I do wonder about the need to push from 47microns down to 35micron resolution. To keep it seems like the old camera megapixel wars and mp3 vs ogg audio compression. Beyond a certain level you physically cant tell the difference. Check out Albertorious' amazing thread for the 1uality of finish you can get with 50micron resolution.

On that basis and with the budget you mentioned I would recommend the new larger build plate models, either the elegoo or anycubic. I have the smaller Mono and the quality is perfect for me, but the build plate size requires splitting 28mm scale.vehicles over more prints. The larger build plate models should be able to do more of a tank at once, or whole infantry squads at a time.

In terms of.cleaning, if you have the space and then budget then the wash and cure stations are elegant solutions. I have given over a.module of one of our storage shelves to curing and it works fine.for initial.cure before dropping it on the window ledge to bake. The dedicated curing stations are probably more efficient overall.





In terms of extras, the printer should come with a couple 9f scrapers, one metal.for getting the print off the bed, and one plastic for scraping any failed prints off the FEP film. Beyond that you need nitrile gloves for £15 or so for 100, a bunch of filter cones for draining the resin back out, again £10 or so for 100. I have found some hobby clippers very handy for taking off supports as well.

My cure station cost about £40 for the uv led strips and the solar powered spinny thing.

If you plan to.use normal.resin, then you will.need a few.litres of IPA. I got a 6l pack for about £25 off amazon. However I have switched over to water washable as I couldn't ventilate my work.area.enough to deal with the IPA fumes, even with a mask.

Amd a couple of food storage things with mesh baskets for swooshing and rinsing.

Here is my accessory pile, basically

When it comes to resolution I suspect the difference will be important to me, heck I already go nuts over mould lines, but I also much around with 5:1 magnification photographs of things so tiny tiny tiny details are things I to notice and look for.

4K seems like its a bit of the newest shiny thing and the Sonic seems like its one of the first to make the jump. I'm guessing in a year or so the market might well have a lot more comparable optoins.


The other thing I'm noticing is that there seems to be quite a market gap in prices. From cheaper options like the Sonic there then seems to be huge gap in the 4K and high resolutions until you hit the well over £1K and higher priced units. With the just under sub £1K being more of less the same quality just with bigger plates than the entry level ones (this is a very very veyr rough summary from what I can tell)

Welcome to the wonderful world of printing!!

I had a thread comparing the two larger 4k monos to hit the market from Anycubic and Elegoo (https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/792352.page) and the definite issue is stock on the Saturn right now, that's for sure.

I cannot say enough about the great experience I did have with Elegoo customer service, though. I got an original Mars about a year and a half ago and have worked it to literal death, but it still works beautifully. Probably close to 1,000 print runs on it (I fulfilled a couple of KS games) and when I first got it I was just outside the initial all-covered warranty when the LCD screen went out and they had a new one to me within 10 days. I just sent a screen shot and no further questions or hassle.

Based on my experience and also keeping cost a factor, I have definitely decided on the Saturn and will look to buy in March or so. I definitely hope the stock situation improves, but all printers on Amazon took a price jump before Xmas and are only just now starting to come down, so I personally would wait just a bit anyway. IIRC, the Mono X went from the $600 mark to almost $800 and i think is just now starting to come down slightly. Heck, even resin jumped way up!

My wash and cure station thread (https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/791471.page) shows my super easy and inexpensive solution. If I had unlimited room and funds I might spring for one of the nifty wash/cure stations, though.

I might also add your selection of resin will affect any fumes more than anything. The Elegoo resins smell way less than the Anycubic brand, but the Siraya Tech brand smells the least (hardly at all) and I have moved almost exclusively to the Simple ST line - using the smoky black and adding a bit of white or grey to the bottle. What seems to smell the most is the simple green/IPA mix bin when I open it, and that is not toxic, so I really have no use for a mask/respirator, but safety says I probably should. I have my set up in a super large game room (about 450 sq ft.) in the very corner and my wife in the total opposite corner only says she can smell something when I open the rinse/clean bin. I can have the printer running all day and have it open and she does not smell it.

Unless you start going into extreme details, the benefit of 4k resin printer will be minimal. By extreme details I mean down to the last wrinkle in a 50mm scale figures.

I may be misunderstanding your OP, but it sounds like you're looking into getting into 3d modelling? If so, I would start off with one of the photons to get a hands on feel. They're still one of the best value-per-dollar printers out there. The benefit of more expensive, high spec printers are visually significant, but for majority of the issues pertaining to details can be resolved at modelling phase (make this piece thicker, make this crevice little wider, angle this little more shallow) and exposure.

Always remember the #1 factor in quality prints is the quality of the 3d model. While great 3d models suffer from poor printers, not even the best printer in the world can turn turd into gold.

I won't be designing models myself, rather using ones made by others such as Mini Monster Mayhem

https://www.patreon.com/minimonstermayhem

MDSW has a lot of good info in their linked posts, worth a read.

The Phrozen Sonic Mini 4k (and the non-mini) are currently the best x-y resolution MSLA printers on the market. Yes, there are other 4k printers out there too, but the PPI (pixels per inch) on the Sonic models is higher, since it's 4k over a smaller area. Whether or not you need that extra detail (37um vs 50ish) is quasi-debatable, but if your main goal is printing 25-30mm miniatures, you will get sharper details (depending on the sculpt itself, of course).

Right now, there do seem to be QC issues with the Phrozen. I've read some have had real difficulties, while others have been cruising along with no problems (e.g., 3dPrintingPro says he has 2 of them that have been printing nearly non stop without any real issues). I think part of that was some of the rush to get things shipped out, as there was a HUGE demand for them and they had quite the backlog. So far, mine hasn't given me any real issues, but it hasn't done more than about a dozen print runs at this point, so I can't really speak to longevity. Maybe I got lucky.

I wouldn't be surprised if other manufacturers soon put out a smaller screen 4k to grab that extra detail. I think the next jump to like 8k is going to be a while, though, as the costs for those is still prohibitive. Though, when Elegoo has a Saturn 8k for example...

The main thing right now is that if you do go in on a resin MSLA, don't skip getting a monochromatic screen. That's the biggest point, both for print times and longevity.

I think the challenge with getting the mileage out of the 4k is most likely going to be the positioning of supports and angling of models to make sure that the physical warping of parts doesn't just erase any benefits you get from the 4k screen.

3d printing is a learning curve hobby. You can have models cheap, highly detailed, or easy, and you get to pick 2 - 3d printing is Cheap and Highly Detailed, buying GW plastic is Highly Detailed and Easy.

I love my photon mono. I have no experience with any kind of other brands, but it has rapidly become my favorite tool in my hobby toolkit, even for doing stuff like classic mini restoration and kitbashing.

I totally agree, scotsman, as positioning and supports are an integral and important aspect of the printing hobby and while you might have good luck with 'pre-supported' models, I still rather have the model I can place, position and support myself. People that print and do not spend a bit of time to understand and master this aspect will always have a higher failure rate.

However, regardless of position, a higher resolution will always have the capability of a higher detailed print, but there are more factors involved as you mention - cheap low-detailed sculpts, layer height, etc. and the difference in .047 and .050 resolution in properly sliced minis is really imperceptible. The better resolution Photon Mini (.035, I think?) when looking at comparisons has the capability of showing better prints, but again, only if the mini has that level of detail and the slicing and prep is done to enhance the difference - I find for most printing you just may not desire to push it that far, as this means super thin layers, longer print times, etc.

I will be buying a larger build resin printer over the next month or two and while I need to be realistic on price, I would love to have both large build AND super hi-res, if I could afford it. I am sure there will be a lot of sub .04 and .03 resolution printers coming in the next few years with the larger build capability that will be reasonably priced (after all, it is still just a hobby for me, although i do print A LOT!) and if you do have a larger allowance to spend the Anycubic Mono X may be the ticket. Myself, I will be springing for the Saturn, as my experience with my Mars has just been so stellar and the price and capability more than works for my needs.