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Yes another has fallen for the 3D printing bug

So I've got a few days to read up and get supplies and generally get in order before the printer arrives, so I figured I'd use that time to also generally chat about printing and get my thoughts in order before I end up baffling myself running in circles and reading too much before actually being able to do anything.


Supplies needed:
Nitrile Gloves - reading around these offer superior protection against resin when working with it. Of course after use they will require disposal.

White lithium for part lubrication (main screw moving bed on printer). Assume spraycan version will work just fine for this.

UV light - seems to be more affordable to get a cheap UV light, a small turntable and then put both in a box to cure the resin rather than a dedicated unit (which might be in the future who knows). Though might have to be careful as it seems a lot of the cheap UV lights are often for parties and the like and don't output true UV. Though nail polish UV units might be affordable and put out the right quality of light

PTFE lubricant. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJlyJAg3BBk
Video recomments 3 in 1 in the bottle, but that isn't easily found in the UK, but comments in the video suggest that green bottle WD40 PTFE works just as well. Considering one thing that I have seen on the Phrozen is concern about the pull up stage, applying some lubrication to reduce stick onto the FEP seems to be a very sensible move.

FEP cleaning tips - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvMYSMkQvdw

Microfibre cloth - cheap ones/disposable ones.

Rubber scraper for FEP cleaning.



Working with resin thoughts:
Resin should be cured before any disposal. This includes curing any resin on gloves and the like prior to disposal. Curing to happen in UV light or in sunlight

Resin in printer tank should either be topped up and another print run, or poured back into the bottle using a funnel and filter. Might also be worth returning to bottle between prints to reduce chances of loose free agents causing issues in latter prints ( since those should be removed by the filter when returning resin to the bottle. Again cure resin on filter before disposal.

If you use transparent resin then it's easier to see lumps. I went through a whole litre of resin without returning to the bottle as I had no failed prints and no random bits landing in the vat.

However, if you're not sure then definitely strain it.

 Flinty wrote:
If you use transparent resin then it's easier to see lumps. I went through a whole litre of resin without returning to the bottle as I had no failed prints and no random bits landing in the vat.

However, if you're not sure then definitely strain it.

Forgot to note in the post that I've gone for the Phrozen Mini 4K which has its own resin that they recommend for it (which I don't think comes transparent). That said I'm sure that given time other resins might be worth experimenting with, though for now I'll avoid it to keep the number of variables as low as I can whilst starting out.

Don't forget post-processing supplies.

Two containers for initial/final wash, lots (and lots) of paper towels. Big ziplock bag for temporary storage of disposable items that came in contact with resin (for curing under sun before throwing out).

A big syringe makes it infinitely easier to transfer resin and IPA around than pouring. Just make sure to store it so the insides won't cure.

 skchsan wrote:
Don't forget post-processing supplies.

Two containers for initial/final wash, lots (and lots) of paper towels. Big ziplock bag for temporary storage of disposable items that came in contact with resin (for curing under sun before throwing out).

And after you've gotten what you think will be enough paper towels, go buy that much again. Seriously, you'll go through these like crazy.

A pickle jar with a basket is a good budget way to deal with a wash container, too. Be prepared for some mess in the post-print: you will need a spot to remove your models from the build plate (which likely means setting it against a surface covered with paper towels to pry it off with a spatula), a place to set your models to dry after dunking in cleaning (which means more paper towels), etc.

Also, yeah the nail curing lamps work a treat. Before I upgraded to an Anycubic Wash & Cure 2.0, I had a small solar-powered turntable and a nail cure lamp that I used. Can get that whole set up for probably around 30 bucks or so, maybe even less if your Amazon-fu is good.

Oh, and get more paper towels. Some kind of eye protection is probably a good thing, too, just in case of any resin splashes when pouring it between things, or splashes from the washing set up. You do not want that gak in your eyes. An apron is a decent idea too, and so are long sleeves, just to be ultra careful.

I know a lot of people started with their resin printer being super cautious, like cleaning out the vat after every single print, wearing a multitude of saftey equipment, etc.

There is so much info available for people new to printing, so soak it all in and then once you gain experience you will start to economize and change your process to suit your comfort.

Here is where I have landed over the past many months (some will shout 'unsafe' and 'heresy', but it works for me:

1. I only drain out the vat either after a failed print or when changing color - and sometimes just drain it without cleaning out if the color change is minor. If I can tell something did not stick to the build plate and know it is floating around, you have to drain through a filter.
2. Take your plastic scraper and lightly drag across the bottom to not only stir up the resin, but to make sure nothing is stuck to the FEP. If your resin has been sitting for a few hours, always good to use the scraper to mix up the resin before printing.
3. I will only wear a glove on one hand, as the other is handling the scraper and never touches the mini or any resin. When the print piece is all done, rinsed/washed and set aside to dry, I will dry off the glove and carefully remove it, blow it right-side out and set aside to use again. I can get a half to a dozed uses out of the glove before it tears and needs to be replaced.
4. I freely mix resins together and as long as they are OK for your machine, they will go together. Sure, It might affect your cure times a bit, but you will get comfortable with the cure times based on resin color and viscosity and adjust accordingly. Most printers will let you adjust your exposure times on the machine instead of having to slice a new file. My Mars lets me do this.
5. Use alcohol inks to tint resin if you need another color. I get white resin and use a set of Ranger Inks in blue, yellow, red to make it any color needed (except grey) - just do not go nuts with adding color to disrupt the resin properties.
6. I do not wear a mask, except when sanding or filing. The resin brands I use are very low odor, so the most fumes I get is when I open my simple green/alcohol wash tub.
6. On my Mars, the fan ran as soon as the power was on, so you can google the one line code change (0 to a 1, I think it was) on one setting to only turn on the fan when it is actually printing. OMG, I wish I had looked up that hack and not sat with it humming in my ear all day long, especially good when setting up a night print so the fan shuts off when done printing and does not run for hours until you wake up to turn it off.
7. I do not have an official vat lid, but cut a piece of styrene plastic to cover the resin vat if there will be some time between prints - this obviously keeps the resin closed up, protected from light, dust, etc. Just be sure to remove it when you start a print - had the build plate crash into it a time or two.
8. Have two rinse bins, as your first will get really dirty fairly quickly and your second is really just to give it a final rinse and will stay clean pretty long and you will avoid getting the light resin film on your minis after a wash.
9. Agitate the mini in the rinse really good and only use a soft toothbrush to scrub if a super detailed part and go lightly! You can dull details by scrubbing an uncured mini too hard.
10. Do not over cure your prints - this makes them super brittle. Depending on your cure station and UV light power, this could mean only 2-3 minutes. I have heard people that cook them for 30 minutes and wonder why they shatter if dropped.
11. Know how edge blur and Anti-Aliasing works - this is not necessarily a substitute to make your printer print smoother. On really good sculpts with fine details, turn it off and set your layers thin to get the best print. Running high AA and thicker layers will just get you a really smooth print, but with mushy details. If doing something with low deatils (terrain, model parts, etc.) you can use this to set a thicker layer to print faster, while keeping the print layer edges smoothed out.
12. Whenever you clean out the vat, rub a super thin layer of PTFE lubricant on the FEP film and always use one of the super soft eyeglass wiping rags to wipe the FEP film. Using a paper towel will leave tiny scratches. The lubricant helps the cure layer separate from the film easier, helping to reduce build plate tear-aways.
13. I use cheap paper plates to set the prints to dry after the rinse before they are cured. I have a few that are just stacked up on each other and will pull out a plate to do my cleaning (remove supports) to keep the cleaned ones seprate from the one still to clean.
14. Understand your support settings and how to change the default settings to suit your needs. Supports should be removed before curing and if properly set, will peel right off like butter and leave almost no trace of where they were placed.

Good luck and have fun - I know I have!!

...oh yes, lots of paper towels/napkins - I find myself swiping an extra large handful of napkins, if convenient when getting food, to keep near my station.

Oh, another thing I did recently that was really useful in clean up...

I filled one of my airbrushes with IPA, and turned the pressure up pretty high. Put down a plastic dish with some paper towels (have I mentioned you'll want a lot of those?) and sprayed my prints rather than scrubbing them to get the last bits of resin film off after their "regular" wash. Kinda like a mini-pressure-washer. Worked really well for me, and also made it possible to blow out any collected liquids in deep recesses, helping them dry a bit quicker. In fact, it worked so well I'm seriously considering getting one of those cordless rechargeable airbrushes that are the rage now to use just for this so I don't have to turn on my compressor, move over to the airbrush booth, etc.

If you are airbrushing IPA I think a decent VOC filter mask would be well worthwhile.

 Flinty wrote:
If you are airbrushing IPA I think a decent VOC filter mask would be well worthwhile.

Oh, absolutely. I usually do wear a mask while airbrushing, and definitely recommend you do so if you're doing IPA, and have another filtration system going (which I do have a ventilated booth as well).

I was watching a video on cleaning and in that it was mentioned that instead of using IPA you could use window washing sprays instead. Which makes sense sense since it also relies on basically alcohol to evaporate off.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvMYSMkQvdw



Honestly besides the use of IPA instead of Dettol, a lot of the resin cleaning seems to sound fairly similar to cleaning off models when paint stripping. If perhaps a stronger focus on mixing and water attrition to wash the model and less scrubbing required with a worn tooth brush.

 Overread wrote:
I was watching a video on cleaning and in that it was mentioned that instead of using IPA you could use window washing sprays instead. Which makes sense sense since it also relies on basically alcohol to evaporate off.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvMYSMkQvdw



Honestly besides the use of IPA instead of Dettol, a lot of the resin cleaning seems to sound fairly similar to cleaning off models when paint stripping. If perhaps a stronger focus on mixing and water attrition to wash the model and less scrubbing required with a worn tooth brush.

Yeah, there are several alternatives to IPA or denatured alcohol. Those are the most common, but not the "only" solutions.

Handling the print pre-cure is definitely something you want to be a little careful with, since they will be soft-ish, so gouging and scratching is a lot easier than when they're cured. Do remove the supports prior to curing, though, since you want that to be easier. After washing, a short soak in some warm water also makes support removal a little easier. Once again, make sure to let them dry completely before curing, though.

Removing supports seems to be a variable thing. On the one hand many argue removing them before curing so that you can more easily remove them. Though as the resin is still soft it's only removing the main stem, little bits left on will still have to be cleaned off after curing.

Others say they don't mind the resin being firmer to clip off and that by leaving supports on you've a neutral base to the mode to help it stand whilst its undergoing curing.

Since you'll still have cured stubs to clean up on the model, surely leaving some of the connection points on wouldn't be a huge issue, it would be just like removing lots of mould gates from a regular spin cast model.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I've also added a video to my first post which suggests adding lubrication to the FEP prior to use; which considering the pull up off the FEP is one of the key failure parts of the process, would sound like a very sensible thing to do each time to increase the chances of a good cast and reduce strain on the FEP

If it's a thick print, like say a car, I let it sit in the IPA bath for several hours. The supports will melt off but the IPA won't ruin the resin. but thinner parts, like say some swords or fabric, will end up being a bit flexible and not as strong so I don't over soak the resin with anything that it could ruin.

For a curing station I just bought some UV led lights off of amazon (in a long string), and some reflective stickers that I then lined the inside of a large plastic container I already had and cut a hole for the cored. Whole thing cost me like $25 to make and works great. I also use an old mirror that I used for green stuff sculpting back when I thought I might learn that (I didn't) that helps cure the bottom--though I still flip large items.

I use a regular full spectrum grow-lamp rather than a UV lamp for my curing because I don't want to risk eyeball exposure to pure UV. Since most of my printing is done on kind of a downtime basis (I run my printer overnight, and I turn on my curing lights when I leave for work)

A few top tips/things I wish I knew when I started:

1) Turn them exposure settings up hiiiiiiiiiiiigh. The default on my photon was like 3 seconds, and I never had a model fall off the plate again after I upped the exposure time to 10 seconds. Literally never. I went through a whole month of like 60% success rate which was frustrating as hell, and then boom, never again. And since I'm running overnight, the difference between it taking 3 hours and taking 7 hours I don't particularly care about.

2) flat surfaces are the devil. you're going to be worried about having a solid support structure holding your model up, but honestly, one or two good heavy supports right on the bottom and it's much much better if your model is positioned standing on one tippy toe with every surface as close to a 45 degree angle as possible. "Make sure the feet are pointed down so all the marred detail is on the bottom of the model" is the crappiest advice I got - you literally don't need to have that marred detail, you can make the light supports so teeny-tiny that they snap off and don't leave any mark and you can tilt the model so as much as possible is at a 45 and it'll print out perfect and beautiful. I've set my supports such that I can take the model off the plate, manually snap any supports off of delicate areas on the model so as not to snap swords, spears, guns etc, and then just grab and twist the model and every support comes off instantly right at the tip without any marks on the model at all.

3) if you can't avoid a flat surface, just put that sucker right on the plate. A surprising number of models just..don't need supports if you slice them in just the right place. For example, I just printed up a house. What's the only overhang on your average house? The roof. So what I did to print it is just to chop the model in half right at the line of the roof, and print the building and the roof sitting right on the build plate. Zero supports needed, 100% perfect print.

4) Windows 3d model viewer is the first program you want after your slicing software. The auto-repair functionality in this software and the planar split function are absolutely amazing for fixing up models that are tricky to pose. it's free, it takes an extra 5 seconds to run on your STLs to make sure there's no holes in the meshes, and itll save you having to dump models in the trash.

If you have a bunch of nubs left from your supports when you pull them off before curing, your settings are not correct. You may have them set too deep or the connection point is not set correctly - it should be a fine point. Some may say if too fine a point the support will break from the model while printing. In this case add a few more supports or one or two heavier ones to help the model stay attached.

Sure, you can still have some minute spots where you can see where they were attached, but I can only see mine when under magnification or looking super close or on a really flat area - simply sand that after curing to smooth out.

I have had issues removing flat surfaces printed without supports, so will be trying the magnetic flexible plate method soon, as I totally agree with posters above - try to place it flat on the build plate, if possible.

the_scotsman wrote:
3) if you can't avoid a flat surface, just put that sucker right on the plate. A surprising number of models just..don't need supports if you slice them in just the right place. For example, I just printed up a house. What's the only overhang on your average house? The roof. So what I did to print it is just to chop the model in half right at the line of the roof, and print the building and the roof sitting right on the build plate. Zero supports needed, 100% perfect print.

I CANNOT stress this enough.

Sometimes, actually most of the times, it's better to print your prints as a "kit of parts" rather than a single object.

 skchsan wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
3) if you can't avoid a flat surface, just put that sucker right on the plate. A surprising number of models just..don't need supports if you slice them in just the right place. For example, I just printed up a house. What's the only overhang on your average house? The roof. So what I did to print it is just to chop the model in half right at the line of the roof, and print the building and the roof sitting right on the build plate. Zero supports needed, 100% perfect print.

I CANNOT stress this enough.

Sometimes, actually most of the times, it's better to print your prints as a "kit of parts" rather than a single object.

I mean, I don't get too silly with it - honestly I'm kind of irritated occasionally when a set of files is structured with separate heads, arms, bodies, legs etc like a GW kit because it takes much much longer to support and I can't fit as many minis on the plate, but I do the ol' slice a model in half trick and use the join as the bottom where I attach my heavy supports trick pretty commonly.

the_scotsman wrote:

 skchsan wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
3) if you can't avoid a flat surface, just put that sucker right on the plate. A surprising number of models just..don't need supports if you slice them in just the right place. For example, I just printed up a house. What's the only overhang on your average house? The roof. So what I did to print it is just to chop the model in half right at the line of the roof, and print the building and the roof sitting right on the build plate. Zero supports needed, 100% perfect print.

I CANNOT stress this enough.

Sometimes, actually most of the times, it's better to print your prints as a "kit of parts" rather than a single object.

I mean, I don't get too silly with it - honestly I'm kind of irritated occasionally when a set of files is structured with separate heads, arms, bodies, legs etc like a GW kit because it takes much much longer to support and I can't fit as many minis on the plate, but I do the ol' slice a model in half trick and use the join as the bottom where I attach my heavy supports trick pretty commonly.

It's more of a lesson learned back when the market was heavily ABS based and soluble supports were absolute necessity.

By designing your file into multi-part kit, you can achieve higher detail (by catering the best print angle to each individual pieces & lack of overlapping details) and much shorter print time (by virtue of smaller geometries).

I will often use Microsoft 3D Builder to join everything together and save as one stl file - it is already included on Windows 10 machines, I believe - it was pre-installed on mine or might be free to download somewhere.

 MDSW wrote:
I will often use Microsoft 3D Builder to join everything together and save as one stl file - it is already included on Windows 10 machines, I believe - it was pre-installed on mine or might be free to download somewhere.

Yeah its free on the windows app store thingy. You can also save as STL from your chitubox slicer, which I often do.

Meshmixer also provides a lot of good.tools.for joining STLs together. Not sure if its more powerful than 3d builder, or if it just looks more like CAD and a bit less user friendly, and therefore makes me think its more powerful

And now my youtube is filling up with loads of 3D print suggestions. This one caught my eye talking about a new kind of FEP

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8kNt-_4Tzk

Whilst it seems to still be on the expensive side in the UK it might be worth looking at since I do see a few people talk about issues with the FEP sticking aspects with regard to the sonic 4K. So a more forgiving FEP might well be a good addition to the setup. At least once the default one that comes with it fails on me.

I can say 3D Builder is super easy. Meshmixer is actually a nighmare for myself, just a casual user, and I am very adept at using graphic programs.

Soo its failing!!!

Which must mean I've joined the club!

So what I'm getting as a failure is that its not sticking to the build plate enough. It's printing the rafter for the supports, but as soon as it spreads out a little for the flare at the edge of the rafter its not peeling off the FEP.

My gut feeling is that perhaps the build plate needs sanding to rough it up a touch (what grit value?). However at this stage I "don't know what I don't know" so I'd welcome if anyone else experienced this and can give some feedback (and yes I can use google and yes it gives a billion answers). However it could also be some of the early exposure times and speeds of moving the build plate as well.

Settings (default)
Layer Height 0.05mm
Bottom Layer count 4
Transition layer count 0
Transition Type linear
Exposure time 2.6s
Bottom Exposure Time 25s
Light off delay 9s
Bottom light off delay 9s
Bottom lift distance 6mm
lifting distance 5mm
bottom lift speed 80mm/min
lifting speed 80mm/min
retract speed 150mm/min

If the resin doesn't peel off the FEP, then it's not a build plate issue (so don't sand it).

Try bumping up your bottom exp to 50~60 sec and bottom layer to 8. I would also reduce the lift speed down a little bit (60~70 mm/m range), but it may work out without touching the lift speed if you compensate at exposure.

The 2.6 exposure is a bit worrisome (I only go under 4 sec for draft prints), but this depends heavily on the resin you're using so YMMV.

General word of advice would be to learn the working of machines with "standard" settings (not the 'default' setting), then work your way down in fine tuning your machine/settings. (TLDR: find your machine/resin's best working settings first before you start tweaking them.)

 Overread wrote:
Soo its failing!!!

Which must mean I've joined the club!

So what I'm getting as a failure is that its not sticking to the build plate enough. It's printing the rafter for the supports, but as soon as it spreads out a little for the flare at the edge of the rafter its not peeling off the FEP.

My gut feeling is that perhaps the build plate needs sanding to rough it up a touch (what grit value?). However at this stage I "don't know what I don't know" so I'd welcome if anyone else experienced this and can give some feedback (and yes I can use google and yes it gives a billion answers). However it could also be some of the early exposure times and speeds of moving the build plate as well.

Settings (default)
Layer Height 0.05mm
Bottom Layer count 4
Transition layer count 0
Transition Type linear
Exposure time 2.6s
Bottom Exposure Time 25s
Light off delay 9s
Bottom light off delay 9s
Bottom lift distance 6mm
lifting distance 5mm
bottom lift speed 80mm/min
lifting speed 80mm/min
retract speed 150mm/min

What resin are you using? Exposure times vary between resins fairly significantly in some cases.

More likely than needing to sand the plate is either leveling issues or exposure time for the raft. It may also be your bottom layer count is a little low (seems like that's sticking, but then the next non-25s layer peels?), so you could up the number of bottom layers to like 6, or, more likely, up the regular exposure time a touch.

Thanks for the feedback both, the resin I'm using is the Phrozen Aqua 4K Grey, which from my limited googling seems to be comfortable with a shorter than normal curing time for many. Though I'll modify the bottom layer and exposure times.

 Overread wrote:
Soo its failing!!!

Which must mean I've joined the club!

So what I'm getting as a failure is that its not sticking to the build plate enough. It's printing the rafter for the supports, but as soon as it spreads out a little for the flare at the edge of the rafter its not peeling off the FEP.

My gut feeling is that perhaps the build plate needs sanding to rough it up a touch (what grit value?). However at this stage I "don't know what I don't know" so I'd welcome if anyone else experienced this and can give some feedback (and yes I can use google and yes it gives a billion answers). However it could also be some of the early exposure times and speeds of moving the build plate as well.

Settings (default)
Layer Height 0.05mm
Bottom Layer count 4
Transition layer count 0
Transition Type linear
Exposure time 2.6s
Bottom Exposure Time 25s
Light off delay 9s
Bottom light off delay 9s
Bottom lift distance 6mm
lifting distance 5mm
bottom lift speed 80mm/min
lifting speed 80mm/min
retract speed 150mm/min

I would absolutely CRANK up them exposure times. Seriously. I know it takes way longer. I know it may not be STRICTLY necessary depending on the resin you're using. But setting it to 10 seconds exposure and just never ever having to worry about failure makes the hobby so so much better, and you'll quickly be printing way faster than you can paint anyhow.

I have my bottom exposure at 45sec, 5 bottom layers, normal exposure 10 seconds. Never trying to adjust it down again.

the_scotsman wrote:
I would absolutely CRANK up them exposure times. Seriously. I know it takes way longer. I know it may not be STRICTLY necessary depending on the resin you're using. But setting it to 10 seconds exposure and just never ever having to worry about failure makes the hobby so so much better, and you'll quickly be printing way faster than you can paint anyhow.

I have my bottom exposure at 45sec, 5 bottom layers, normal exposure 10 seconds. Never trying to adjust it down again.

One thing to note though, high exposure may compromise fine details as it affects the XY resolution. This is something you need to work out with the resin/machine you're using.