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Just to give an idea of where various factions stand in terms of non-plastic kits.
Things to update by army, not including special characters or brand new things. Does include some plastics that are just inadequate because basic options are missing, but not because the squads are small/overpriced
IMPERIUM- an almost finished product line barring characters and the weird hiccup that is the imperial guard and its retired metal regiments.
Space Marines (1 unit, 8-10 characters, all oldmarines):
Units:
Thunderfire Cannon
Characters:
(old) Techmarine/Servitors
(old) Chaplain
(old) Captain/librarian/chaplain jump packs or bikes
Sisters of Battle (2 ‘units’, 3 characters)
Death cult assassins, Crusaders, Preachers, Missionaries
Canoness (and LT?) with jump pack
Imperial Guard (potentially 20+ units, 5 characters) caveat for Guard: reworking the regiment system based on regiment types/roles rather than 20th century uniforms would reduce this a lot.
Units Missing regiments: infantry, HWTs and command squads. Technically speaking these aren't 'needed,' but the current range is so absurdly limited, and the rules still center around them.
Plastic rework: Redone cadians and catachans to fill out missing weapons
Crusaders
Wyrdvane psykers
Ratling snipers
Rough Riders (gone missing)
Characters Preachers
Primaris psyker
Regimental Advisors
Custodes, Ad Mech, Knights Finished!
CHAOS- surprisingly complete, with a few pieces missing. A dual kit, cultists and EC/WE could wrap this up easily, barring characters
Daemons, Chaos Knights, Thousand Sons Finished!
Chaos Marines Units (5 units, 1 character)
Noise Marines
Plastic Rework: Berserkers (also wouldn’t say no to bikers)
Mutilators
Full kit: Obliterators
Full kit: Chaos Cultists (5 box missing leaders and special weapons)
Characters Warpsmith
Power armor lord (jump pack and not)
Death Guard:
Characters (5 variants of two characters)
Lords: full kit with options that actually look DG. Lord of Contagion is gone.
Sorcerers (terminator armor and power armor), esp. since you have to take one in battalion
XENOS - tyranids, tau and necrons could be finished easily, orks have some holes and a few things that were simply abandoned. DE are looking like a missed opportunity, Craftworlds are missing a big swathe of _units_ that GW's been neglecting a long time.
Genestealer Cults, Harlequins
Finished!
Tyranids (4 units, 2 missing/dropped units)
Units Lictors
Pyrovore/Biovore
Spore Mines
Things gone missing
Shrikes
Rippers?/Flying Rippers
Necrons (1 unit, 6 characters)
Units Rework: Destroyer
Characters Deceiver, Nightbringer, Generic C’tan (without buying an obelisk or whatever
Destroyer lord
Necron lord
One last Cryptek- technomancer with control node (currently resin or ‘limited edition special’)
Orks (3 units, 6 characters, 4 missing/dropped units
Units Kommandos
Tankbustas
Deffkoptas
Characters Warboss with options, Warboss in mega-armor, warboss on bike
Mek with KFF Weirdboy
Ork Nob with Waaagh banner
Things gone missing:
Big gunz (not mek gunz)
Warbuggies and wartrakks (not snazzwagons)
Cyboars
Looted wagons (no models, just rules, as that’s the point)
Craftworlds (_8_ units, 4 characters)
Units Shining Spears
Dark reapers
Swooping Hawks
Warp Spiders
Fire Dragons
Striking Scorpions
Rangers
Storm guardians
Characters Warlocks
Jetbike autarch, foot (no wings) autarch
Avatar of Khaine
Dark Eldar (aka the missed opportunity) (4 units, 3 characters)
Units Beastmaster and beasts (razorwing, clawed fiend, khymerae)
Grotesques
Command retinue (medusa, lhamean, sslyth, accessible ur-ghuls)
Mandrakes
Characters Lieutenants (Dracons particularly, but also ‘sub-succubus,’ ‘lesser haemonculus’)
Ynnari ??? see Dark and Craft, aka 'the concept army in search of both a point and a physical existence'
I may well have missed something, as I used the webstore and some things just don't show up sometimes.
Its amazing how close GW is to an all plastic line, and a dedicated push could do it if they have the will.
Again, this doesn't include theoretical new stuff they could add to flesh out a faction, just existing stuff (or stuff that existed until recently), and not special characters.
IMO, they can toss a small release at chaos and push hard on Xenos- that's where most of the work needs to be done, especially eldar.
Guard needs a rethink, as the current regiment system makes no sense, and requires way too many 'duplicate' kits (infantry+command+HWT for each) to replace.
Once that's done, they can go back to expanding factions or introducing new ones. Feel free to mention anything missing.
This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2021/02/10 22:20:27
A multi option plastic inquisitor would be something. Though Inquisitor players tend to be a converting bunch so usually not a problem. Think the only Inquisitors we’ve had are special characters and that admittedly awesome model with a sword and flamer. There was that similar one with a plasma pistol, unsure if it was an special character or not.
Edit: not necessary really but I’ve been wanting female guardsmen for a long time. They show up often enough in the lore/art so why not.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/02/10 21:23:16
His pattern of returning alive after being declared dead occurred often enough during Cain's career that the Munitorum made a special ruling that Ciaphas Cain is to never be considered dead, despite evidence to the contrary.
*I know "They shall know no unfavourable treatment"
BlaxicanX wrote: A young business man named Tom Kirby, who was a pupil of mine until he turned greedy, helped the capitalists hunt down and destroy the wargamers. He betrayed and murdered Games Workshop.
I believe that IG Ratlings aren't in plastic, and neither is Pask.
And part of the reason the IG line is so complete is because everything else was deleted from the lineup over the last few editions, so I'm going to also offer Rough Riders. Rough Riders had a metal model set, so I would definitely count them as "in need of update", except that rather than to provide an update to Guard GW just got rid of them
I also swear Cdr. Chenkov had a metal model at one time, and he's just gone too. I don't know if Al-Harem and Lukas Bastogne had models.
"Gone Missing" also probably includes the Medusa Siege Gun and Griffon Heavy Mortar Carrier, which had models from forgeworld and datasheets in the IG codex, and have also managed to disappear into the void, not even appearing in legends.
The Colossus Bombard, third of the trio of missing artillery, either never had a model, because the art shows it as having a Chimera chassis and so does it's stats, or has a model and appears in the FW index with a Leman Russ chassis instead.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/02/10 21:38:57
Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades!
If we're counting missing guns for Guard, I'd also like to add that the Chaos Lord (sans Terminator armor) is stuck using either the Blackstone Fortress easy-build model or the resin model with the outdated jump pack. To make things worse, the current Chaos Lord comes with a Black Legion symbol embossed on one of his shoulder pads, meaning that anyone who doesn't want to build Abaddon and Friends has to do conversion work or OOP shopping to get a Chaos Lord without a jump pack.
Well, there's also the Night Lords Chaos Lord, but I'm pretty sure he's resin as well and NL players will probably just take the jump pack anyway.
And part of the reason the IG line is so complete is because everything else was deleted from the lineup over the last few editions, so I'm going to also offer Rough Riders. Rough Riders had a metal model set, so I would definitely count them as "in need of update", except that rather than to provide an update to Guard GW just got rid of them
I also swear Cdr. Chenkov had a metal model at one time, and he's just gone too. I don't know if Al-Harem and Lukas Bastogne had models.
"Gone Missing" also probably includes the Medusa Siege Gun and Griffon Heavy Mortar Carrier, which had models from forgeworld and datasheets in the IG codex, and have also managed to disappear into the void, not even appearing in legends.
The Colossus Bombard, third of the trio of missing artillery, either never had a model, because the art shows it as having a Chimera chassis and so does it's stats, or has a model and appears in the FW index with a Leman Russ chassis instead.
Good point on the ratlings and rough riders.
Not going to add FW, and I'm dubious on the Griffon, just because its been gone a _long_ time at this point.
Special characters I'm skipping, simply because the economics of 1 per army ever (if someone is even interested) makes plastic a dubious proposition.
@Flipsiders - added power armor chaos lord
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/02/10 22:00:23
Voss wrote: Does include some plastics that are just inadequate because basic options are missing, but not because the squads are small/overpriced
Sisters of Battle ++Jump canoness and character/unit eviscerators.
- the line is all plastic now but the legacy of ever shrinking chapter approved books had stripped them to the bare minimum of options.
Inquisition -everything. They are so outdated their 'terminator inquisitor' entry refers to a model released in 1989.
Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote: The Colossus Bombard, third of the trio of missing artillery, either never had a model, because the art shows it as having a Chimera chassis and so does it's stats, or has a model and appears in the FW index with a Leman Russ chassis instead.
It had a forgeworld model. I don't remember there being a plastic/metal variant.
For Guard, Scions replaced Kasrkin, but they are technically distinct units, as Kasrkin are specifically of Cadian origin. In terms of background Scions share more in common with Stormtroopers and are more a successor kit to them than Kasrkin.
Voss wrote: Does include some plastics that are just inadequate because basic options are missing, but not because the squads are small/overpriced
Sisters of Battle ++Jump canoness and character/unit eviscerators.
Added the former. Not going to get into the specific weapon nightmare.
Inquisition -everything. They are so outdated their 'terminator inquisitor' entry refers to a model released in 1989.
/Shrug They're basically in the same place as ynnari. A couple character models and no place to go.
'everything' just isn't compatible with a list of existing models that need conversion to plastic, or specific things that have vanished or have incomplete kits.
An Inquisition army would basically be a new army starting from scratch.
Rough Riders can stay gone, let's actually get something meaningful to the Guard as a whole thanks! I've been over the whole "what's needed" for the Guard super in-depth elsewhere so won't here, but until the book isn't a dumpsterfire of a Cruddace spearheaded project is done? It's pointless to redo anything. There's too much nonsense going on. Veterans are Conscripts or Infantry Squads with no meaningful differences outside of special weapon options. Sergeants are trash models that if they were paid upgrades, nobody would likely take. Heavy Weapon Teams and Special Weapon options in the squads really aren't bad for variety...but the problem lies with certain options being standouts and the older kits just not having them present in there. The Command Squads have the specials but no Heavy Weapons and neither box has any specials. Without an actual revision to the sprues or the unit types? It just becomes a bits box grab bag unit.
AdMech do actually have a few things needed. First up is the finalized release of the Skitarii HQ choice that they keep teasing They screwed the army up royally with 8th, gutting Skitarii as a setup. Second is plastic Servitors.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/02/10 22:26:30
Demons - Slaanesh
Herald of Slaanesh - currently still in finecast (really surprising considering the 2 big releases Slaanesh has had in the last year or so)
Tyranids -
Red Terror - currently in metal/finecast
The Doom of Malan'Tai - Zoanthrope unique hero unit. Might be agued that the new Neurothrope replaces it in kind.
The Parasite of Mortrex - flying unit that injected rippers into enemies, rippers would then burst out to appear on the tabletop. Also had a local ripper command boost.
Termagaunts - lost several weapons such as spike rifles and strangleweb. Gaunts could also do with a new kit with fullyformed heads (currently split down the middle)
Oh and another for Rippers - the flying variety are called Skyslashers and they are, like the old Tyranid Warrior Shriek wings, sold by Forgeworld.
Unlike the warrior wings, the Skyslahers are still for sale right now from Forgeworld.
Voss wrote: 'everything' just isn't compatible with a list of existing models that need conversion to plastic, or specific things that have vanished or have incomplete kits.
Inquisitor (multiple)
Inquisitor in terminator armour
Acolyte (multiple)
Daemonhost
Jokaero
Currently the non-named character line-up for the inquisition consists of a resin chimp, an unarmed resin priest, and two resin inquisitors armed with swords and melta weapons. The chimp is the only model newer than 3rd edition.
Its simply a list of current (and recently departed, though I'm quite aware that my definition of recent may not match with other folks') kits that need updating. Its mostly finecast stuff that needs to go.
It struck me as a useful list for upcoming codex releases, the kinds of things that we might reasonably expect to see happen and what should be a priority for GW, rather than rampant speculation.
Partly I was curious what the actual state of craftworld eldar was since I largely consider them most in need of a sweeping update. With 8 units, I still think that's true.
Guard surprised me a little, but I don't think the 'planetary regiments' is a formula that can be revisited in plastic.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/02/11 01:42:31
If your going to ask for updates for Berserkers and Noise Marines, then we need an actual kit for Chosen. The Undivided Legions need a kit for their veteran non-terminator infantry before they get hit with the "No Model No Rules" bat.
Gadzilla666 wrote: If your going to ask for updates for Berserkers and Noise Marines, then we need an actual kit for Chosen. The Undivided Legions need a kit for their veteran non-terminator infantry before they get hit with the "No Model No Rules" bat.
Again, it isn't an 'ask.' Just a list of things that exist, or did exist, in some cases.
There probably should be a Chosen kit. But there's really never been a real one, so there isn't anything to replace or update.
Same reason I didn't list Skarboys, IG Veterans or Conscripts kits.
Necron arks. The gauss guns are so damn fragile half of them i see don't even have the damn things on them! redesign them to have the guns mounted on ball sockets on the base of the ribs. And lose the blades on them, they make zero sense.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/02/11 02:50:05
"But the universe is a big place, and whatever happens, you will not be missed..."
Gadzilla666 wrote: If your going to ask for updates for Berserkers and Noise Marines, then we need an actual kit for Chosen. The Undivided Legions need a kit for their veteran non-terminator infantry before they get hit with the "No Model No Rules" bat.
Again, it isn't an 'ask.' Just a list of things that exist, or did exist, in some cases.
There probably should be a Chosen kit. But there's really never been a real one, so there isn't anything to replace or update.
Same reason I didn't list Skarboys, IG Veterans or Conscripts kits.
Ok. So when was there an actual dedicated kit for a Death Guard Sorcerer in Terminator Armour? Did I miss it? Or are you counting regular Sorcerers in Terminator Armour painted green?
Edit: never mind. Remembered the old sorcerer kits.
You win this one Voss!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/02/11 02:52:08
Guard surprised me a little, but I don't think the 'planetary regiments' is a formula that can be revisited in plastic.
Why not? The Necrounda gangs look great and I'd imagine Guard kits would have a high chance of high sales volume since people would ve buying multiple. I think all that's needed is finding the ideal way to organize the kits. Troopers, Command, Heavy Weapons, Vehicle Crew.
Guard surprised me a little, but I don't think the 'planetary regiments' is a formula that can be revisited in plastic.
Why not? The Necrounda gangs look great and I'd imagine Guard kits would have a high chance of high sales volume since people would ve buying multiple. I think all that's needed is finding the ideal way to organize the kits. Troopers, Command, Heavy Weapons, Vehicle Crew.
It would be, if you were to actually do Regimental stuff?
-Infantry Squad, Conscripts, and Veterans. These realistically are three different kits. Infantry Squads and Veteran Squads have a dedicated Sergeant, Conscripts don't. Infantry and Veteran Squads both can take Heavy Weapon Teams and Vox-Casters while Conscripts cannot. Conscripts start at 20 models while Infantry+Veteran Squads both are 10 models only. Veteran Squads have a different allocation of Special Weapons as well.
-Heavy Weapon Squads.
-Command Squads
-Officers(Junior and Senior) plus Masters of Ordnance
-Vehicle Crews(of which the Basilisk, period, needs crew figures)
And that doesn't even go into special characters. You're looking at a handful of kits for effectively NO DIFFERENCE.
A Catachan has the same damn stats as a Cadian or a Vostroyan. It's pointless without a change to the dynamic of the book, and GW is frankly too timid to do the necessary work for it.
Voss wrote: ...but I don't think the 'planetary regiments' is a formula that can be revisited in plastic.
This gets brought up frequently when speaking of bringing regiments back, but it would likely be doable with multipurpose kits (eg. a generic longcoat infantry kit with heads/bits for Vostroyans/Steel Legion/Valhallans, and a tunic infantry kit with heads/bits for Cadians/Tallarn/Mordians - Catachans would probably still require bespoke kits, though).
Voss wrote: ...but I don't think the 'planetary regiments' is a formula that can be revisited in plastic.
This gets brought up frequently when speaking of bringing regiments back, but it would likely be doable with multipurpose kits (eg. a generic longcoat infantry kit with heads/bits for Vostroyans/Steel Legion/Valhallans, and a tunic infantry kit with heads/bits for Cadians/Tallarn/Mordians - Catachans would probably still require bespoke kits, though).
I guess you could do that, but they wouldn't look particularly like those regiments. Vostroyan outfits are very elaborate, valhallans have fur touches, steel legion doesn't (and have shorter coats). Tallarn aren't wearing the same outfits as Cadians, nor are Mordians- not even vaguely.
Its a way forward, I suppose, but I'd expect grumbling more than enthusiasm
Insectum wrote:
Why not? The Necrounda gangs look great and I'd imagine Guard kits would have a high chance of high sales volume since people would ve buying multiple. I think all that's needed is finding the ideal way to organize the kits. Troopers, Command, Heavy Weapons, Vehicle Crew.
The cost and risk, basically. 6 or 7 times the cost to reproduce the same 'units' in variations, with no guarantee they'd sell enough of all of them to make that money back. (especially given how regiment choice is currently baked into rules. Color=rules is bad enough, but if they actually brought back the models, specific regiments=rules would be obnoxious. Especially when the rules start changing to make the kits that sell the least sell better)
Its also just SKU proliferation, which raises all sorts of stock and shelf space issues, for a 'second tier' army. I just can't see GW's number crunches signing off on it.
Necromunda is an odd comparison, different game on a different scale and the basic gangs are 5 models with duplicate sprues for a low model count game. I don't know about you, but I wasn't pleased with that for necromunda, and it _really_ wouldn't fly for 40k when the average guard army wants 50+ models (or double that, depending on how tank heavy you go).
...Its a way forward, I suppose, but I'd expect grumbling more than enthusiasm
Oh, absolutely. And I'd almost certainly end up still doing Victoria/Anvil/Mad Robot/etc. for regiment troops even if GW brought them back in that manner. But it would be better than the current feth-all we have for the regiments, and it would be easier for GW to justify compared to doing new sculpts for all the regiments.
Voss wrote: ...but I don't think the 'planetary regiments' is a formula that can be revisited in plastic.
This gets brought up frequently when speaking of bringing regiments back, but it would likely be doable with multipurpose kits (eg. a generic longcoat infantry kit with heads/bits for Vostroyans/Steel Legion/Valhallans, and a tunic infantry kit with heads/bits for Cadians/Tallarn/Mordians - Catachans would probably still require bespoke kits, though).
I guess you could do that, but they wouldn't look particularly like those regiments. Vostroyan outfits are very elaborate, valhallans have fur touches, steel legion doesn't (and have shorter coats). Tallarn aren't wearing the same outfits as Cadians, nor are Mordians- not even vaguely.
Its a way forward, I suppose, but I'd expect grumbling more than enthusiasm
Insectum wrote:
Why not? The Necrounda gangs look great and I'd imagine Guard kits would have a high chance of high sales volume since people would ve buying multiple. I think all that's needed is finding the ideal way to organize the kits. Troopers, Command, Heavy Weapons, Vehicle Crew.
The cost and risk, basically. 6 or 7 times the cost to reproduce the same 'units' in variations, with no guarantee they'd sell enough of all of them to make that money back. (especially given how regiment choice is currently baked into rules. Color=rules is bad enough, but if they actually brought back the models, specific regiments=rules would be obnoxious. Especially when the rules start changing to make the kits that sell the least sell better)
Its also just SKU proliferation, which raises all sorts of stock and shelf space issues, for a 'second tier' army. I just can't see GW's number crunches signing off on it.
Necromunda is an odd comparison, different game on a different scale and the basic gangs are 5 models with duplicate sprues for a low model count game. I don't know about you, but I wasn't pleased with that for necromunda, and it _really_ wouldn't fly for 40k when the average guard army wants 50+ models (or double that, depending on how tank heavy you go).
If I'm interpreting the sprues correctly on the GW webstore, the current Cadians themselves are a duicated sprue of five
Voss wrote: ...but I don't think the 'planetary regiments' is a formula that can be revisited in plastic.
This gets brought up frequently when speaking of bringing regiments back, but it would likely be doable with multipurpose kits (eg. a generic longcoat infantry kit with heads/bits for Vostroyans/Steel Legion/Valhallans, and a tunic infantry kit with heads/bits for Cadians/Tallarn/Mordians - Catachans would probably still require bespoke kits, though).
I guess you could do that, but they wouldn't look particularly like those regiments. Vostroyan outfits are very elaborate, valhallans have fur touches, steel legion doesn't (and have shorter coats). Tallarn aren't wearing the same outfits as Cadians, nor are Mordians- not even vaguely.
Its a way forward, I suppose, but I'd expect grumbling more than enthusiasm
Insectum wrote:
Why not? The Necrounda gangs look great and I'd imagine Guard kits would have a high chance of high sales volume since people would ve buying multiple. I think all that's needed is finding the ideal way to organize the kits. Troopers, Command, Heavy Weapons, Vehicle Crew.
The cost and risk, basically. 6 or 7 times the cost to reproduce the same 'units' in variations, with no guarantee they'd sell enough of all of them to make that money back. (especially given how regiment choice is currently baked into rules. Color=rules is bad enough, but if they actually brought back the models, specific regiments=rules would be obnoxious. Especially when the rules start changing to make the kits that sell the least sell better)
Its also just SKU proliferation, which raises all sorts of stock and shelf space issues, for a 'second tier' army. I just can't see GW's number crunches signing off on it.
Necromunda is an odd comparison, different game on a different scale and the basic gangs are 5 models with duplicate sprues for a low model count game. I don't know about you, but I wasn't pleased with that for necromunda, and it _really_ wouldn't fly for 40k when the average guard army wants 50+ models (or double that, depending on how tank heavy you go).
Have you ever seen a Guard army? There's not a lot variations between the bulk of the models pose wise. Doesn't matter if your using plastic Cadians, or metal Cadians. With the old metals you get guys aiming, guys advancing (guns up/down), two or three slight variations of Sgts, and special & heavy weapons who by default are always the same poses.
Well, guess what? That's pretty much how most people build the plastic ones too. It's not terribly important that you can slightly pose them. And in play? Most of them die fast enough that your opponant rarely notices/cares if youve adjust some of them to break up the sameness.
So yes, a bunch of repeating sculpts will work just fine.
As for trying (and failing) to please everyone with a kit that's trying to be 4-5 different styles? (say Krieg, SL, Valhallan & Vostroyans) You don't. You pick ONE of those & go with it. If people paint it different colors & claim the Krieg squad is _____? So be it. It's the same effect as right now today.
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