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Made in fi
Shas'la with Pulse Carbine






One of my resolutions for this year is to learn the Grimdark painting technique. And for this, among other things, I need to start using oil paints. However, I don't have access to a dedicated painting space so have been hesitant into getting oils because of fumes, mess and whatnot. But yesterday I ran across this product from AMMO by Mig Jimenez, the Oilbrushers.






These are readily available from https://www.migjimenez.com/en/22-oilbrushers
Does anyone here use these oilbrushers and are they as convenient to use as advertised?

If these are solid, imma buy a few dark colours and start experimenting ASAP! Really love how that geimdark painted stuff looks, I'd love to use it on my new army I'm building.

Thanks for any insight in advance!

This message was edited 8 times. Last update was at 2021/02/22 11:23:53


 
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Procrastinator extraordinaire





Edinburgh, UK

Looks like an expensive middle man. You're still going to need thinners to clean up the thicker paint left for filters and this product looks like a hassle to take from the bottle and thin into a wash if you ever want to panel line.

Honestly, oils aren't that messy and the odourless thinners are pretty good these days but you still ought to crack a window. My oil painting is limited to a ceramic palette and a pack of nitrile gloves for cleanliness so clean up is really easy.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/02/22 11:35:36


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Made in gb
Been Around the Block




My main opinion of this product is that it’s good for beginners that have never really used oil paints before. If you’ve already got a lot of oil paints and know how to use them it might make the application for certain techniques more convenient, but you’re paying for convenience that’s all. I’ve got two in various shades, there is nothing wrong with them but I just don’t really use them.
   
Made in fi
Shas'la with Pulse Carbine






Templarted wrote:
My main opinion of this product is that it’s good for beginners that have never really used oil paints before. If you’ve already got a lot of oil paints and know how to use them it might make the application for certain techniques more convenient, but you’re paying for convenience that’s all. I’ve got two in various shades, there is nothing wrong with them but I just don’t really use them.


Well, that's exactly what I'm looking for, a beginner-friendly product for someone who never used oils before. The eyeliner-style case seems really neat so they'll be easy to store and use either straight onto the model or diluted on my aluminum pallette.

I dont consider the price too outrageous either (compared to GW prices at least). Think I'll give it a go, thanks!

I'll update my impressions to this thread when I get them, just in case someone else is interested in these.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/02/22 18:41:33


 
   
Made in gb
Thane of Dol Guldur





Bodt

If you're using small amounts of oils, fumes shouldn't really be an issue. I use oils in my living room where the kids play and it's not a problem. I use an old GW paint pot of white spirit to thin, and an old newspaper to sap the paints on for a few hours before use. Seal the pot when you're done, and refill it when it gets too dirty.

Never used the oil brushers but I don't really see the need. I thought they were some sort of tool for streaking effects and the like. But if you're using it straight from the tube like he seems to be, I would be concerned because I like to let my oils soak on paper for a bit first as this makes them easier to use.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/02/22 23:10:54


Heresy World Eaters/Emperors Children

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Made in fi
Shas'la with Pulse Carbine






 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
If you're using small amounts of oils, fumes shouldn't really be an issue. I use oils in my living room where the kids play and it's not a problem. I use an old GW paint pot of white spirit to thin, and an old newspaper to sap the paints on for a few hours before use. Seal the pot when you're done, and refill it when it gets too dirty.

Never used the oil brushers but I don't really see the need. I thought they were some sort of tool for streaking effects and the like. But if you're using it straight from the tube like he seems to be, I would be concerned because I like to let my oils soak on paper for a bit first as this makes them easier to use.


Are you using regular oil paints? The oilbrushers have "oil paint for modelling", which is considerably less oily than regular oil paint. It does not supposedly need to be dried out on cardboard or anything like that.

Ableitung oils are also "modelling oil paints" AFAIK.

And I just ordered three colours (black, dark brown and dark dirty grey) of oilbrushers and their odourless thinner, so too late to turn back now
   
Made in gb
Thane of Dol Guldur





Bodt

Yeah I use regular oils which need wicking of some oil for use, but I also use some abteilungs which I find also need wicking, albeit for a much shorter time period before use. I generally leave regular Windsor and Newton oils all day or overnight before use, but abteilungs are generally good to go after an hour or 2.

Heresy World Eaters/Emperors Children

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Made in fi
Shas'la with Pulse Carbine






 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
Yeah I use regular oils which need wicking of some oil for use, but I also use some abteilungs which I find also need wicking, albeit for a much shorter time period before use. I generally leave regular Windsor and Newton oils all day or overnight before use, but abteilungs are generally good to go after an hour or 2.


Interesting. Thanks for sharing! I'll do some tests before I try to paint anything with the oils then, just to determine how much drying time they require.. Is there some visual indicatior one can observe to know when an oil paint has dried up sufficiently for using on miniature painting?
   
Made in gb
Thane of Dol Guldur





Bodt

Personally I just wait until I can see the circle of oil in the paper. Even then it's good to go for days afterwards. A good tip I got from modock on this forum! A little thinner will activate it and almost give it acrylic paint like properties, but with the blend-ability of the oils. Once the oil paint is on, I let it sit for a while before using a soft brush to feather it out. I'm mainly using the oils for nice shadow or highlight transitions.

If I have used a substantial amount of oils on a miniature I will leave them for a few days after finishing before I varnish them to allow a decent amount of drying time.

Definitely try the brushers though and let us know how they are.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/02/23 10:35:18


Heresy World Eaters/Emperors Children

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Made in fi
Shas'la with Pulse Carbine






I got the three oilbrushers for testing already a few weeks ago, but only now had time to test them.

These are my first oils for miniature painting - and I'm hooked on oils now!
Oil washes are everything I've always wanted from a wash; they give a very elegant colour modulation, with rich pigment and dry completely matte! Citadel washes just became meaningless gimmicks for me..

I find the eyeliner style bottle very practical to use. I just shake the brusher, dab some onto my aluminum pallette and take it from there. I can mix any amount of thinner to the pallette with a pipette to get a suitable wash consistency. And in doing it like this, there is practically no odours or fumes resulting from the painting, and almost zero risk of spills or extra mess.

Now, I think I need to order some more colours.. With the dark colours I got, I can do washes etc weathering ok, but I'm also going to need lighter shades for colour modulating upwards.. thinking a few pastel coulours might come in handy.

I'm testing the oils on an old dreadnought from the Black Reach 40K starter. I'll post a pic once I'm done with my tests.
   
Made in fi
Shas'la with Pulse Carbine






Here are some photos of my test piece. I have to say the pics dont look the same as what the model looks like in the room, a lot of the subtler shading is lost somehow.. iPad camera aint the best for mini photography I reckon..

All of the metallics on the dread have been washed with the oilbrusher (black). The legs were originally drybrushed with two different metallic colours, but all the other metallic parts had just a flat coat of AK Gun Metal.

The red armour plates were given another oilbrusher color (Dark Brown) wash and the powerfist yet another (Starship Bay Sludge). Lastly, the exhausts in the back were given all three washes, I wanted to try to make someextra oily/dirty effect to those.

I also used some AK weathering pencils for adding further grime after the washes were done. Went a bit overboard with them again, I need to learn to tone it down and also to wetblend them more instead of just using them dry.

The test piece isn't that spectacular tbh but I already got the hang of using oil washes. I think the best results will come from using the washes onto a model which only has a basic basecoat style paint on it, this one had edge highlights etc and the result is a bit messy. If a model already has acrylic edge highlight applied to it, you cant use the power of oil paints to properly wet blend all the shades together.

EDIT: Okay, seems like I've been using HDR mode on my iPad camera all this time.. that explains the colour shifts! Took the photos again with HDR disabled and replaced the attachments.


[Thumb - 59A0ABFB-B93F-4FF0-8FAB-85CA93D324F2.jpeg]
MIG Oilbrushers test model

[Thumb - EE8318C1-2A0E-445C-9825-39F8069AB016.jpeg]
MIG Oilbrushers test model

[Thumb - EC4BBAC6-B10B-4706-9A34-CBB056CD82D2.jpeg]
MIG Oilbrushers test model

[Thumb - EC2D5DB6-AF55-4FE3-BFDF-17252525C2F4.jpeg]
MIG Oilbrushers test model

[Thumb - 6807D8D8-D28E-4405-85DE-D41B853B1F2B.jpeg]
MIG Oilbrushers test model

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2021/04/03 19:40:52


 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Ever since I discovered oil paints to make washes I don't use acrylic washes anymore.

They flow nicer, they are a richer color and they are less likely to fish eye.

And because mineral spirits don't impact the acrylic paint underneath I can use spirits to "erase" any excess wash without fear of erasing the paint under the wash.

   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran






Mig Jiminez used to work for/with AK Interactive, both Mig and AK tend to have products that are touted as the latest thing, but have in fact been around for a long time in cheaper forms available elsewhere...

FYI you can get a set of artists oils, with every colour you could need, for less than half (or even less than that if you shop around) what Mig want for a complete set of these Oilbrushes (58 Euro!!), and they will last you a lifetime...

I've used oil paints on 1/72 scale jets, an F-14 and A-4 Skyhawk, for weathering, and with mineral spirits (odorless) they do work well for things like streaking or discolouring of panels, if you know what you are doing (sadly I don't really). I also used them on a 1/144 Bandai Millennium Falcon, but I was copying what someone else was doing, so that doesn't count. And as jivardi said they don't affect an acrylic paint underneath them, although it's always advisable to put down a clear coat before you start weathering anyway.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/04/06 04:20:26


 
   
Made in fi
Shas'la with Pulse Carbine






 Rob Lee wrote:
Mig Jiminez used to work for/with AK Interactive, both Mig and AK tend to have products that are touted as the latest thing, but have in fact been around for a long time in cheaper forms available elsewhere...

FYI you can get a set of artists oils, with every colour you could need, for less than half (or even less than that if you shop around) what Mig want for a complete set of these Oilbrushes (58 Euro!!), and they will last you a lifetime...

I've used oil paints on 1/72 scale jets, an F-14 and A-4 Skyhawk, for weathering, and with mineral spirits (odorless) they do work well for things like streaking or discolouring of panels, if you know what you are doing (sadly I don't really). I also used them on a 1/144 Bandai Millennium Falcon, but I was copying what someone else was doing, so that doesn't count. And as jivardi said they don't affect an acrylic paint underneath them, although it's always advisable to put down a clear coat before you start weathering anyway.


First of all, I'm not so naive as to believe any marketing hype by any commercial company trying to make a living selling products. Hell they all say they're the best thing since sliced bread, and more innovative/quality etc than the next company. Just about every company and their marketing is dept is guilty of this.

I'm not saying the oilbrusher are anything new, and not saying they are cheap either.. but compared to GW prices they're not blatant robbery by any means. 58€ for the full set sound like much, but I don't even think you need all that many colours tbh. I've been ordering sets of 3 colours and with postage to Finland the total is something like 15€, ie. tolerable IMO.

And I still think they are very convenient. I remember my father using oil paints around the house when I was growing up, that stuff can be really messy, oilbrushers are as convenient as handling oils can get, such a thing is worth the extra to me.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/04/06 06:01:12


 
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran






OK, lets see, where to start.

They are blatant robbery when you look at the price of the equivalent oil paints/thinners available, especially when you factor in how long those will last you and even if you factor in buying a bottle of eyeliner and dumping the contents. GW don't make such a product or any oil paint products, so not sure why you think mentioning GW prices is valid.

I don't know what your dad was doing but oil paints are no more messy than any other paint.

If you find Mig's latest product to be convenient, then good for you. To be honest though you sound as though you're either trying to convince yourself, or you're promoting for Mig.

Whatever works for you though man.

This message was edited 8 times. Last update was at 2021/04/06 16:03:09


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Annandale, VA

I'm a big fan of oil paints but it's not clear to me what this product brings to the table, as mixing up a batch of oil wash is generally not especially difficult, and cleaning out a brush that's been used with oils isn't particularly messy either.

Like Tyranid Horde said you still need thinner for cleanup, and if you're mixing it on a palette and then applying it to the model, seems to me like you could skip the middleman entirely and just mix the paint and thinner yourself. For my painting I actually don't bother with a palette; I've mixed up a large batch of my most common oil wash in a glass bottle and apply it directly to the model.

Also FWIW if you can't smell the thinner that just means you're using an odorless (or 'odorless') thinner. Your dad might have used turpentine or something similarly potent.

Edit: All that said, your model looks pretty good. Have you gone back and cleaned up the wash at all with thinner? For me it's the step of wiping dried wash off the raised areas to intensify the shading that really makes it pop.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/06 14:52:59


 
   
Made in fi
Shas'la with Pulse Carbine






 catbarf wrote:
I'm a big fan of oil paints but it's not clear to me what this product brings to the table, as mixing up a batch of oil wash is generally not especially difficult, and cleaning out a brush that's been used with oils isn't particularly messy either.

Like Tyranid Horde said you still need thinner for cleanup, and if you're mixing it on a palette and then applying it to the model, seems to me like you could skip the middleman entirely and just mix the paint and thinner yourself. For my painting I actually don't bother with a palette; I've mixed up a large batch of my most common oil wash in a glass bottle and apply it directly to the model.

Also FWIW if you can't smell the thinner that just means you're using an odorless (or 'odorless') thinner. Your dad might have used turpentine or something similarly potent.

Edit: All that said, your model looks pretty good. Have you gone back and cleaned up the wash at all with thinner? For me it's the step of wiping dried wash off the raised areas to intensify the shading that really makes it pop.


Father used to be an artist before he went insane.. But all that happened like 30 years ago hehehe

He used turpentine and oil paints in those metal coloured tubes. I remember his hands being in oil paint all the time, and he always had wiping rags scattered around his canvases.. Maybe those memories make me biased. anyhoo..

I like that the brushers take up very little space. The store in less space than my acrylic paint pots, they're about the size of a small felt marker pen. I also like that when I take out paint from the brusher, the brush size is so small that its very hard to accidentally take too much paint from the bottle. This results in very little or zero leftover paint to dispose of, and unlike acrylics, oils shouldn't really be flushed down the toilet. Even with my droppoer bottle acrylics, I find I tend to take out more paint than I actually need so end up wasting about 60% of my paints.

I did do cleanup after the wash with odourless thinner, yes. However, 24 hours after the paint had dried I found the washes toned down quite a bit, so obviously all this will take some practice and experience to pull off acceptably. I posted the pic of the finished model in my plog which hopefully shows how the washes changed after drying (the lighting in the pics isn't 100% same so the comparison isnt exactly scientific)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Rob Lee wrote:
OK, lets see, where to start.

They are blatant robbery when you look at the price of the equivalent oil paints/thinners available, especially when you factor in how long those will last you and even if you factor in buying a bottle of eyeliner and dumping the contents. GW don't make such a product or any oil paint products, so not sure why you think mentioning GW prices is valid.

I don't know what your dad was doing but oil paints are no more messy than any other paint.

If you find Mig's latest product to be convenient, then good for you. To be honest though you sound as though you're either trying to convince yourself, or you're promoting for Mig.

Whatever works for you though man.


You should remember that English is not my native language. I've been misunderstood many times, believe me there is no drama here. If you find these products offensive, then they are clearly not for you. However, my experience so far has been more positive than negative, and it is unfortunate that you feel like I'm shilling for MIG here. Its just like my opinion man.

FTR, you seem to know quite a lot about AK and MIG.. To the point that I suspect you have a personal history, and therefore an axe to grind, with said companies. I guess we are all free to have our opinions.


This message was edited 10 times. Last update was at 2021/04/08 16:20:57


 
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran






 tauist wrote:

You should remember that English is not my native language. I've been misunderstood many times, believe me there is no drama here. If you find these products offensive, then they are clearly not for you. However, my experience so far has been more positive than negative, and it is unfortunate that you feel like I'm shilling for MIG here. Its just like my opinion man



I get that, don't take any offence. Look, I see a lot of people extolling the virtues of "new" products without even being aware of or acknowledging that other cheaper, arguably more effective, products that amount to the same thing, exist, or even stating things about existing products/methods that aren't exactly true. And yes it does come across as shilling, even if you aren't.

I look at it like this - a beginner looks at media about MIG's oilbrushes and thinks "wow, woot!". Then goes out and spends a fortune on them. Because they know no better.

Obviously that's up to them, but at times it seems there's too much of this "look "new" product I found!" that takes beginners down a road they don't need to go down.


 tauist wrote:
FTR, you seem to know quite a lot about AK and MIG.. To the point that I suspect you have a personal history, and therefore an axe to grind, with said companies. I guess we are all free to have our opinions.


Nope no axe to grind. AK have a good rep as far as I'm concerned, when they released their Xtreme metals range they had a massive issue with a batch and replaced it free of charge for customers. I even have two jars/pots of their Xteme metals and a couple of their enamel washes, although I've rarely have cause to use them.

That doesn't change the fact they are both at times middle men for other people's products that were already being sold and don't mention it whilst charging significantly more for a product than the original company did, and like to sensationally and needlessly reinvent the wheel.

I happen to know a bit about both because I was a member of a private scale modelling forum run by a guy that is/was a professional commission scale modeller, who also has a youtube channel, and has had personal interactions with companies like AK and people like Mig Jiminez.

Lets just say I've been around the block and made a point of educating myself on modelling related matters when I've wanted to do something and/or had to spend money, it pays to do so when you're on a fixed very tiny income like I am.

This message was edited 20 times. Last update was at 2021/04/08 19:41:38


 
   
Made in us
Pragmatic Primus Commanding Cult Forces






Southeastern PA, USA

Well, I'm not a beginner and I've used oils for years, and I can see how these might be convenient.

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Made in gb
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 gorgon wrote:
Well, I'm not a beginner and I've used oils for years, and I can see how these might be convenient.


Good for you.
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Procrastinator extraordinaire





Edinburgh, UK

 gorgon wrote:
Well, I'm not a beginner and I've used oils for years, and I can see how these might be convenient.


Don't think their convenience is the issue here really, it's more the fact that the release of an expensive product that is literally a middle man is being recommended when you could buy a tube of decent oil paint that will last you a lifetime and have the potential to do more with. I get people will be happy with what they are though, and if you can afford it, go for it I suppose.

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Pragmatic Primus Commanding Cult Forces






Southeastern PA, USA

I have oil tubes that are YEARS old...I'll probably never use them up. Which says to me that much oil paint was never needed in the first place.

I'm seeing prices of $4-5 each, with sets of 3 around $13-14. Doesn't seem that expensive to me in a hobby like this one, and it's not like I'd buy 20-odd colors.

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 gorgon wrote:
I have oil tubes that are YEARS old...I'll probably never use them up. Which says to me that much oil paint was never needed in the first place.

I'm seeing prices of $4-5 each, with sets of 3 around $13-14. Doesn't seem that expensive to me in a hobby like this one, and it's not like I'd buy 20-odd colors.


You could buy empty eye liner bottles for pence, couple of quid for white spirits if you don't already have, then thin down all that oil paint that is years old. Same product. Minimal cost. Does require a little effort though, and maybe the brush might not be exactly the same, so I guess that's a sticking point.

Just saying.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/04/08 19:49:03


 
   
Made in us
Pragmatic Primus Commanding Cult Forces






Southeastern PA, USA

I could also buy big bottles of various media, mix them with some dirt and make my own paints of various types. I just don't want to.

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 gorgon wrote:
I could also buy big bottles of various media, mix them with some dirt and make my own paints of various types. I just don't want to.


No, there's a bit more to paint making than that, all you'd end up with is dirt in a medium, which funnily enough you can buy and are called clay washes. Little bit too simplistic an example there. MIGs oilbrushes on the other hand are exactly that simple. MIGs oilbrushes are one of those products that's a solution, looking for a problem.

Look, you may find the product or the idea wonderful. Doesn't mean it is or that everyone wants a reinvented wheel or that a reinvented wheel is even necessary.


Good for you though, you go buy some.

This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2021/04/08 21:45:17


 
   
Made in us
Stealthy Grot Snipa





Atlanta, GA

 Rob Lee wrote:
 gorgon wrote:
I could also buy big bottles of various media, mix them with some dirt and make my own paints of various types. I just don't want to.


No, there's a bit more to paint making than that, all you'd end up with is dirt in a medium, which funnily enough you can buy and are called clay washes. Little bit too simplistic an example there. MIGs oilbrushes on the other hand are exactly that simple. MIGs oilbrushes are one of those products that's a solution, looking for a problem.

Look, you may find the product or the idea wonderful. Doesn't mean it is or that everyone wants a reinvented wheel or that a reinvented wheel is even necessary.


Good for you though, you go buy some.


You seem to be working REALLY hard at convincing people not to buy these, and I'm just wondering... why? It's a hobby product that while maybe not essential, seems like it would make using oils a bit more convenient for some people. Just let people enjoy things. After however many posts you've made in this thread, we get it - you don't like Oilbrushers. And that's fine, but maybe some people do.
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran






You're wondering why?

Well I'm not really doing that, not really my intention. I'm just pointing out that alternatives exist, how simple the product is to replicate and thus how cheaply, and maybe trying to educate people a little so they can make a more informed choice. Tauist also stated I seem to have an axe to grind with AK/MIG. so I explained why I don't and how I know about them. I spent a lot of time and money fruitlessly buying and trying to use "shiny new" expensive products when I picked up scale modelling and GW type stuff a number of years ago after a long hiatus dating back to pre-internet. I didn't know of alternatives, because no-one told me about them, no-one was extolling their virtues. I'd like to think I can help other people avoid making that same mistake.


If people know about the alternatives and still want to buy Oilbrushers yeah good for them.

This message was edited 11 times. Last update was at 2021/04/09 05:10:50


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Riverside, CA USA

I also use Oilbrushers even though I have tubes of artist grade oil paint. Not always, it's all about convenience for which one I reach for. Oilbrushers are prethinned quite a lot compared to tube oils (which are unusably thick out of the tube for miniatures) and come with a built-in brush and pre-mixed to exact colors. It's super easy to grab one, dab a bit of paint on the model then do any streaking to blending or whatever and not need to break out any of my oil-specific brushes or pallets or cleaners. But, if I'm doing an actual all-over wash then it's worth mixing up a proper oil wash from tube oils, even if it's just a single model. It's also worth using the tube oils for a large vehicle, especially if using multiple colors for weathering and streaking. I mostly use pre-mixed enamel washes anyways, which are better on mechanical surfaces (oils are better on rounded/organic surfaces, they blend better. Both enamels and oils use the same thinner/brushes/cleanup). MIG-Jimmenez PLW washes are amazing. Again, It all depends on application.

Personally, I don't mind spending an extra $20 or $30 on some paints that will last many years just to save me some minor inconveniences, even if it means doubling up on some colors I may already own in tubes.



This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/04/09 19:14:39


~Kalamadea (aka ember)
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Made in us
Pragmatic Primus Commanding Cult Forces






Southeastern PA, USA

 Rob Lee wrote:
 gorgon wrote:
I could also buy big bottles of various media, mix them with some dirt and make my own paints of various types. I just don't want to.


No, there's a bit more to paint making than that, all you'd end up with is dirt in a medium, which funnily enough you can buy and are called clay washes. Little bit too simplistic an example there. MIGs oilbrushes on the other hand are exactly that simple. MIGs oilbrushes are one of those products that's a solution, looking for a problem.

Look, you may find the product or the idea wonderful. Doesn't mean it is or that everyone wants a reinvented wheel or that a reinvented wheel is even necessary.

Good for you though, you go buy some.


I said they were wonderful? I can't find that statement in my posts. I said that they could be convenient and useful, and that they're actually pretty inexpensive. You can all you want, but clearly you have some kind of bone to pick. I don't see how any nerd-checking is needed here. The OP asked for experiences with the product, not for DIY alternatives.

Also, many pigments are in fact mildly refined dirt. Add that raw pigment to the right oil and you have...oil paint.





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