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Dreadnoughts- Thunderhawk Gunship and Stormraven Gunship are only way to transport to my knowledge.
Primaris Dreadnoughts-No methodology and movement of 8 is slower than bikes, and any transports so unsure of a way to help speed from deployment to deployment. I figure they have to have a methodology even if it is a modified impulsor or Landraider.
Invictor Tactical Warsuit- Move of 10 is the same as Repulsors, so They aren't slowing the force down.
Firestrike Turrets and similar Weapon Platforms- or does new Space Marine Codex fix this allowing them to be transported and take X slots in vehicle

Can Jump Pack Troops survive orbital Re-entry? I have read in the Dark Imperium novel that the Inceptors and like can, but wasn't sure of OG marines orbital re-entry info. I am Certain that Treaded tanks(Rhino, Landraider, Hunter, Stalker, Etc) have either drop pods or mods made to Thunderhawks allowing vehicle deployment planetside.

Space Marines are supposed to be able to redeploy rapidly to changing battlefield conditions and tactical/strategic opportunities. but just curious as to how this works in practice. Infantry is fairly easily resolved but for Primaris Heavy Space Marine Chapters that accounts for an awful lot of Repulsors and Impulsors. Oh how I wish Space Marines had a cheap Primaris Transport Vehicle. Even Rhinos being forced to have Primaris take up 2 for each slot and MkX gravis being 3 would have made some sense. Its like OG marines were more thought out when it came to battlefield redeployment and what not.

Depends on how they're going.

I presume the Imperium straight up has them drive their way forward if they have to move large numbers of Marines across a planet. If they can employ Thunderhawks and Stormraven gunships they will. I also know of Thunderhawk transporters which can move Raiders and Rhino variants. I know that Impulsors and Repulsors can move Primaris across the battlefield quickly but this will grant operational mobility. Most space marine forces deploy from Ships like Thunderhawks and Storm Ravens, dropping down tanks from Thunderhawk transporters and those new Primaris Dropships, plus drop pods.

It would be funny to see them using trains to move the heavy land based equipment if rail lines were present, things like Dreadnoughts and tanks. But airlift is most likely for rapid redeployment of Dreadnoughts.

warhammerfrpgm@gmail.com wrote:
Dreadnoughts- Thunderhawk Gunship and Stormraven Gunship are only way to transport to my knowledge.
Primaris Dreadnoughts-No methodology and movement of 8 is slower than bikes, and any transports so unsure of a way to help speed from deployment to deployment. I figure they have to have a methodology even if it is a modified impulsor or Landraider.
Invictor Tactical Warsuit- Move of 10 is the same as Repulsors, so They aren't slowing the force down.
Firestrike Turrets and similar Weapon Platforms- or does new Space Marine Codex fix this allowing them to be transported and take X slots in vehicle

Can Jump Pack Troops survive orbital Re-entry? I have read in the Dark Imperium novel that the Inceptors and like can, but wasn't sure of OG marines orbital re-entry info. I am Certain that Treaded tanks(Rhino, Landraider, Hunter, Stalker, Etc) have either drop pods or mods made to Thunderhawks allowing vehicle deployment planetside.

Space Marines are supposed to be able to redeploy rapidly to changing battlefield conditions and tactical/strategic opportunities. but just curious as to how this works in practice. Infantry is fairly easily resolved but for Primaris Heavy Space Marine Chapters that accounts for an awful lot of Repulsors and Impulsors. Oh how I wish Space Marines had a cheap Primaris Transport Vehicle. Even Rhinos being forced to have Primaris take up 2 for each slot and MkX gravis being 3 would have made some sense. Its like OG marines were more thought out when it came to battlefield redeployment and what not.

The answer, in previous editions, was Thunderhawks, specifically the old (noughties era) transporter variant, which im pretty sure could carry dreads. That, and dreadnought drop pods.

the pimaris stuff, as far as i know, hasn't been answered one way or the other, but i'd guess the same.

jump troops to my knoweldge cannot re-enter on their own, but can jump form very high altitudes, so i've always assumed a thunderhawk would re-enter, slow to a stable flight speed, the troops would just jump out like paratroopers and then use the jump packs like parachutes to slow decent enough to survive the landing while the Thawk would boost to orbit and dock with the strike cruiser/battle barge that launched it.


and your right, OG marines did have more offical answer to these questions during the early 2000s as imperial armour started doing "non combat" kits like the Thawk transporter, or the argus lighter. the modern view is to just ignore these arkward questions.

However, its important to realise that mobility on a modern battlefield is not just about raw speed, but command/control/communications as well.

A small, heavily interconnected force with good comms, simple chains of command and trusted local leaders can move much quicker than a larger force with less capable comms, more centralised and restricting chains of command, even if the larger force is capable of the same top speeds, simply because its easier for the smaller force's commander to get his men moving and get moving in the right direction. This has been done in real world modern warfare (for example, the Americans in the 1991 gulf war were able to do this vs the Iraqi army, striking a position, replenning and moving out to strike their next target before the Iraqi army had been able to react to the 1st attack).

2nd, not every asset in the marine arsenal is capable of rapid movement, but it doesn't need to be, because sometimes they just need a sledgehammer for a specific attack, so a slow, heavy armed and armoured unit has a role for them.

There are larger aircraft that both have models (Stormbird & Landing Craft), and don't (Primaris ones are mentioned in the novels), and the same is true for ground vehicles (Mastodon, Land-Behemoths, open-topped Rhinos for dreadnoughts, etc.).
Also don't forget teleporters are a thing.

beast_gts wrote:
There are larger aircraft that both have models (Stormbird & Landing Craft), and don't (Primaris ones are mentioned in the novels), and the same is true for ground vehicles (Mastodon, Land-Behemoths, open-topped Rhinos for dreadnoughts, etc.).
Also don't forget teleporters are a thing.

I haven't read enough of the newest novels to find some of the Primaris solutions. I think it is interesting that a Thunderhawk can also carry things like Landspeeders. I am waiting on some sort of primaris super heavy transport like a primaris Thunderhawk that can carry 30 primaris, half that in Gravis, 1 Redemptor Dreads, and 1 Invictor Warsuits and the like. Not that I would get to buy one. heck Thunderhawk Gunships aren't even purchaseable anymore(or does forgeworld still special order those). They made a limited quantity initially. Besides their Benefit is not in their armament. it is in the fact that they can drop 1000 points of Primaris Marines and Dreads in one spot of the battle field from reserve. Dropping 30 Primaris or even regular Marines at one time and then having them all concentrate fire destroys an awful lot of stuff.

I always felt an opportunity was missed when they made the Thunderhawk unable to fit a Rhino chassis vehicle. They do have Landing Craft though, as mentioned, which can carry all sorts of things.

The Dreadnoughts, especially the big ones, are the odd units out, Imo. They're just slower than the rest of the battleforce and difficult to carry, apparently. The Storm Raven does a decent job of giving a way to cart the smaller ones around, which is convenient. I think a reasonable deployemnt uses Thunderhawks, Thawk Transporters, Storm Ravens and Landing Craft, and then Thawks and Ravens do in-theatre shuttling closer to the combat zones while the ground vehicles push themselves around and carry most troops with the Thawk Transporters and Landing Craft keeping further away and out of harms way.

Dreads you can alao still drop via Pods, which probably happens pretty often once the opposing forces are in closer proximity.

It's also mentioned in some Forge World material that there are numerous types of Drop Pods. Things like resupply Pods for logistical support and stealth Pods for more covert insertion, used for Scouts and the like.

*I have no opinion about the Primaris end of things.

 Insectum7 wrote:
I always felt an opportunity was missed when they made the Thunderhawk unable to fit a Rhino chassis vehicle. They do have Landing Craft though, as mentioned, which can carry all sorts of things.

The Dreadnoughts, especially the big ones, are the odd units out, Imo. They're just slower than the rest of the battleforce and difficult to carry, apparently. The Storm Raven does a decent job of giving a way to cart the smaller ones around, which is convenient. I think a reasonable deployemnt uses Thunderhawks, Thawk Transporters, Storm Ravens and Landing Craft, and then Thawks and Ravens do in-theatre shuttling closer to the combat zones while the ground vehicles push themselves around and carry most troops with the Thawk Transporters and Landing Craft keeping further away and out of harms way.

Dreads you can alao still drop via Pods, which probably happens pretty often once the opposing forces are in closer proximity.

It's also mentioned in some Forge World material that there are numerous types of Drop Pods. Things like resupply Pods for logistical support and stealth Pods for more covert insertion, used for Scouts and the like.

*I have no opinion about the Primaris end of things.

I appreciate your reply. I was working out logistics for campaign purposes. I wanted there to be a cost for bigger slower moving units to move from zone to zone. this making more nimble forces better able to do some things and rewarding those that find a good mix of fast moving/redeploying units and bigger, slower units that are typically going to stay in one particular zone until that zone is pacified. As New Zones open up. fast moving elements will inevitably have a higher impact in initial battles, but once those slower but far deadlier units show up the tide can turn. While i can make all of that battle specific for a campaign i wanted to generalize it enough and make it viable for anyone to step in take my take on the pre-existing rules as sort of an overlay and be able to run with it in their own groups. Currently building for Pariah Nexus for a campaign between myself and my son. White Scars successor chapter- The Knights of Tiburon vs. Drukhari in the Orbie System(Outer edge of the Pariah nexus per the map in the campaign booklet).

^Nice!

Well for Marines at least if you emphasize Storm Ravens an Thunderhawks as being strike craft that are more comfortable entering combat space to deliver their cargo, that leaves the Transporters and Landig Craft for your second-tier delivery of heavy equipment. It does sorta leave Rhinos in a funny spot though, as you could expect them to be part of an advace force.

I think you get four tiers of speed with Marines.
1. Drop Pods and Teleporters (Marines, Terminators, Dreadnoughts)
2. Combat Transport delivery. Thunderhawks and S Ravens, Land Speeders, Jump Troops being air-dropped.
3. Rhino Chassis vehicles, Bikes.
4. Land Raiders, (Vindicators might be comparatively slower, too)

But if you decide to "combat drop" with your heavier transports then you can get the heavier stuff there quicker.

The thing is, Space Marines are designed to get Everything there quickly, so in a free airspace (or really aggressive deployment) you just have two tiers. Pods/Teleporters . . . And then everything else, since everything else can be on a Lander, which iirc has Void Shields and lots of armor.

Logistics wise though, there are so few marines, all you need is a few thunderhawks. With a capacity of.30, you need 4 to.drop a full battle company and a couple.of attached dreads. Fewer if you drop a few drop pods into the mix. A single imperial transport rated to carry a.guard company drops an entire forces.worth of heavy equipment.

Once the force is down, rhinos provide in theatre mobility and thunderhawks and thunderhawk transporters provide mobility between theatres.

For some reason, there was an error, and this double posted. Can this post be deleted?

Okay, there's still some kind of error, and when I went to edit out the second one it instead edited out the first one. Sorry about the mess.

Anyway, Space Marines are very strategically mobile courtesy of their dropships and drop pods that can rapidly deploy forces. A Land Raider could be considered more strategically mobile than a Hammerhead or Fire Prism because even though it's not as fast overland, it can be picked up and redeployed far faster.

As a side note, Space Marines defending in emplaced positions are essentially giving up their single greatest advantage, because space marines' true strength isn't in their genetic engineering or power armor, so much as their high level of force integration and strategic mobility. Space Marines are strongest when held in orbital reserve, because they have the ability to show up anywhere in 5-15 minutes, and do so with a force that could expect to be more powerful than what ever is immediate available to oppose them and either be heavily reinforced or no longer present by the time something that would be stronger than them could arrive in the battle area.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

Thunderhawks have clamps on the back fuselage that allows them to pick up and drop off Rhino-chassis and Land Raider tanks.

They do?

(I mean, it'd be great. I've just never seen it mentioned)

 Insectum7 wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

Thunderhawks have clamps on the back fuselage that allows them to pick up and drop off Rhino-chassis and Land Raider tanks.

They do?

(I mean, it'd be great. I've just never seen it mentioned)

This one can carry a land raider. I think it's a discontinued model, since in the tabletop game, there's no call to carry Land Raiders so only the CAS/infantry carrier one is useful.

That's the transporter variant. It can take 1 LR or 2 rhino variants at a time. GW also showed a rather nice rhino shaped command bunker conversion thingy that was also compatible. Super handy in Epic

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

Thunderhawks have clamps on the back fuselage that allows them to pick up and drop off Rhino-chassis and Land Raider tanks.

They do?

(I mean, it'd be great. I've just never seen it mentioned)

Spoiler:

This one can carry a land raider. I think it's a discontinued model, since in the tabletop game, there's no call to carry Land Raiders so only the CAS/infantry carrier one is useful.

Yeah that's the THawk Transporter I mentioned. I though you meant the standard THawk

There is also the Space Marine Landing Craft they had in epic 3rd ed.



This could transport 4 Landraiders or 6 Rhino chassis class vehicles. As well as 60 marines internally

Thunderhawks, Stormravens, Stormeagles, Stormbirds, that new Primaris scale drop ship we'll maybe see at some point, drop pods of the infantry and dreadnought varieties. Or simply jumping from a ship in low orbit, I hear that's fun.

I always imagined there were fleets of support and auxiliary vehicles operated by serfs and servitors that never get mentioned or shown. Marines being entirely self reliant doesn’t stack up just for supply chains, there basic ammunition is huge and weighs loads. A campaigns worth is going to require serious logistics outside of them using combat vehicles to transport it.

A strike cruiser can carry a lot of kit and munitions, and as I recall probably has the ability to manufacture ammo itself. A battle company only consists of.100.troops and therefore there is a limit to the amount of ammo they actually need. In terms of transport, a thunderhawk transporter or two is probably all that's required to support a single engagement.

Andykp wrote:
I always imagined there were fleets of support and auxiliary vehicles operated by serfs and servitors that never get mentioned or shown. Marines being entirely self reliant doesn’t stack up just for supply chains, there basic ammunition is huge and weighs loads. A campaigns worth is going to require serious logistics outside of them using combat vehicles to transport it.

its worth pointing out that marines very rarely engage in prolonged campaigns where they are holding a front line for an extended period of time, but a series of very short, sharp fights at crucial points, then handing off to the Guard, which combined with their own superhuman abilities (able to go without food/water/sleep for days, etc) mean they don't often need a large logistical "tail" like the guard. given their small numbers and ready access to dedicated air transport, its not beyond belief they can use their Thawks and similar to ferry ammo and spares form supply stores on their orbiting ships straight to (or close to) the front.

that said, your right, they do have a large number of auxiliaries and servitors that support them, which get glossed over in most lore because they are boring.

xerxeskingofking wrote:

Andykp wrote:
I always imagined there were fleets of support and auxiliary vehicles operated by serfs and servitors that never get mentioned or shown. Marines being entirely self reliant doesn’t stack up just for supply chains, there basic ammunition is huge and weighs loads. A campaigns worth is going to require serious logistics outside of them using combat vehicles to transport it.

its worth pointing out that marines very rarely engage in prolonged campaigns where they are holding a front line for an extended period of time, but a series of very short, sharp fights at crucial points, then handing off to the Guard, which combined with their own superhuman abilities (able to go without food/water/sleep for days, etc) mean they don't often need a large logistical "tail" like the guard. given their small numbers and ready access to dedicated air transport, its not beyond belief they can use their Thawks and similar to ferry ammo and spares form supply stores on their orbiting ships straight to (or close to) the front.

that said, your right, they do have a large number of auxiliaries and servitors that support them, which get glossed over in most lore because they are boring.

In the fluff that’s how they are supposed to fight, then you read some books and they are holding out against wave after wave of troops or battling defending hives on Armageddon for weeks in end. Just the logistics of carrying on them even 100 bolter rounds. Never mind food etc.

As with all things 40K, if you start applying real word common sense and practicalities to it it unravels quick, so I just presume it’s all taken care off and enjoy my models.

Marines have their own logistics trains, but in the event of longer engagements as part of a.combined imperial force they will.also have access to departmento munitorum supplies as well, and as all.bolt weapons should be firing the same.round, can easily use stuff intended for Guard troops as well. While an individual marine might be expected to fire more rounds than an individual guardsman, there are so.few marines compared to the forces of the Guard that I would imagine that a marine force could.subsist of a very small part of a combined imperial.force supply chain.

 Flinty wrote:
Marines have their own logistics trains, but in the event of longer engagements as part of a.combined imperial force they will.also have access to departmento munitorum supplies as well, and as all.bolt weapons should be firing the same.round, can easily use stuff intended for Guard troops as well. While an individual marine might be expected to fire more rounds than an individual guardsman, there are so.few marines compared to the forces of the Guard that I would imagine that a marine force could.subsist of a very small part of a combined imperial.force supply chain.

Hardly any guards carry bolters though. Like I said earlier in my head there’s a complex serf/servotor based supply chain that goes on in the background and never gets a mention because marines are the hero’s. I’ve also liked the image of a huge guard army and all its support vehicles and staff though.

Are storm bolters still an option for.guard tanks? Also there are oodles of heavy bolters in Guard forces, by the fluff at least. Back I the day, heavy bolters even fired the same shell.as regular bolters and bolt pistols.making the Marine logistical.chain super easy. but I think that may have changed

 Flinty wrote:
Are storm bolters still an option for.guard tanks? Also there are oodles of heavy bolters in Guard forces, by the fluff at least. Back I the day, heavy bolters even fired the same shell.as regular bolters and bolt pistols.making the Marine logistical.chain super easy. but I think that may have changed

Fair point. Logistics is a huge issue in war, but not very sexy on the table top.