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I think there's room for middle ground on the "pointy bits vs rugged clean" argument. Imo, GW could easily satisfy both parties by making some simple options. Perhaps even a "recent convert" upgrade sprue made to fit with regular SM Primaris models. Just some head, shoulder, and weapon swaps with extra chaosy iconography to pin on your models like they do with purity seals.
Chaos corrupts, but it is a slow process, especially outside the Eye of Terror. Just defacing the Imperial iconography by cutting it up and pasting a few chaos symbols around, it works as new converts. Add a couple chains and skulls that the Imperium make regular use of themselves anyway and you're looking proper chaosy without any spiky bits. Remember, the baroque styling on CSM is due to the corrupting influence of the warp. The armor went in looking like any other loyalist kit, so early stages would still closely resemble loyalist armor.
It is also stated in older lore books at least that CSM often scavenge dead loyalist marines for new kit to replace what has been lost or broken over the years, so seeing a CSM with some new armor or weapon wouldn't be all that surprising. If anything, they'd probably take great pleasure in using a fallen loyalist marine's wargear against their battle brothers and the Imperium.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/03/24 15:00:59
2021/03/24 15:18:48
Subject: Will GW ever stop putting pointy sticks on choas models
But whole planets that were fully functional productive planets will change their allegiance to chaos. Why would they suddenly become ramshackle?
It's not thier choice. As soon as they're fully committed to Chaos the spikes just start growing.
And, as a grand cosmic joke, pretty uniformly too.
This is true. It has something to do with the corrupting nature of warp energies, but the "why spikes and horns" part has never been answered.
As for ramshackle, chaos doesn't actually make it ramshackle. That's more about the chaos worshippers caring more about functionality than appearance, so like Orks their less warp energy infused equipment and buildings are only taken care of so far as making them work as intended. Once infused with warp energies, most things can fix minor to moderate damage on their own, with little to no intervention from mortals.
It's somewhere between those two points that spikes and baroque styling start to grow from the object in question on their own. Before that, it's all due to cultists tacking spikes to everything in emulation of the ones that would grow due to warp energies, hence the "ramshackle" appearance.
Gadzilla666 wrote: I personally like the spikes, but this "all CSM are mutated and worship Chaos" stuff has got to go. Night Lords don't view the Chaos Powers as gods and have very low instances of mutation, and Iron Warriors are known to chop off limbs and replace them with bionics if they show signs of mutation. Every Legion isn't the Black Legion.
Yes, this is entirely true. In fact, the Thousand Sons also hated the mutations brought on by warp influence, and it was the catalyst for them becoming the dust zombies they are now. The reason they are called "Rubric Marines" is due to the spell created by Ahriman called Ahriman's Rubric, a spell designed to halt the mutations of the warp. It backfired spectacularly though, giving us the Rubric Marines and getting Ahriman banished by Magnus. The fact is, it is not the worship of chaos but exposure to the raw energies of the warp that causes the mutations. Not everyone wants this, including among the traitor legions.
But whole planets that were fully functional productive planets will change their allegiance to chaos. Why would they suddenly become ramshackle?
It's not thier choice. As soon as they're fully committed to Chaos the spikes just start growing.
And, as a grand cosmic joke, pretty uniformly too.
This is true. It has something to do with the corrupting nature of warp energies, but the "why spikes and horns" part has never been answered.
Because part of the core visual language of the warhammer universe, that then leached into the warhammer 40k universe, is that any opposition to the factions presented as 'the good guys' causes a person to become more subhuman, and sprouting animal parts is the best way to visually convey that.
It's not just marines and not just chaos - if a human rebels because they're influenced by a xenos force, they become blobby and bug-like. The subfactions of the imperium that are the closest to falling into corruption get animalistic traits, like Wulfen. When a techpriest starts to dabble in forbidden heretek, the robots they create go from having a smoother and more humanoid appearance to being spiky robot dogs and dragons and dinosaurs.
Basically every visual medium that wants you to instantly root for the good guy and hate the bad guy does this, it's standard visual language to make your villain appear deformed, sick, less symmetrical, more bestial, have a darker color palette, or appear to violate gender norms.
It's just more obvious in 40k because it's 100% explicit with the setup of chaos. Here's the chaos god of appearing deformed and sick. Here's the two chaos gods of appearing bestial. Here's the chaos god of violating gender norms.
Oh I understand all that, I'm just saying there has never been an in-lore explanation for it. It's just GW saying "well, the warp causes spikes, horns, and highly fashionable baroque styling!"
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2021/03/24 16:16:30
2021/03/24 16:58:24
Subject: Will GW ever stop putting pointy sticks on choas models
Insectum7 wrote: I love the spikes too, and I think it works well for "generic Chaos Marine", but I'm in total agreement that it shouldn't be the only aesthetic. I love the RT-era mutated CSMs a lot, but at the same time I'm thinking of getting a bunch of MkIV Heresy kits and adding them as "clean renegades" to my mostly-spiky chaos collection. Chaos should basically be able to have any aesthetic.
That's what I believe too. Especially since in the lore it states that time works differently in the Eye. It says almost verbatim that while for many Traitor Marines they have been fighting for this war for 10000 years, but for some the HH was recent events. That would mean they could have completely untouched and functional HH gear, potentially only with little corruption by warp energies. Gear that even a Loyalist Marine might pick up after a battle and return to their chapter's Techmarines for ritual cleansing as a valuable relic. Despite what some may believe, it has been shown that in a number of sources that the Imperium does indeed collect artifacts and relics tainted by the warp and cleanses those they deem fit for reuse while destroying those they believe beyond saving.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/03/24 16:59:04
