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How would you guys bring Assassins up to par in 9th ed? Because lets be honest, right now they kinda fall short. The Culexus can still have uses in some imperium lists because he is really annoying to deal with and has a fight last strat, but thats about it.
I am not sure how to exactly redesign them to make them viable and interesting, but I have some ideas....which might be really bad, but here we go nonetheless:
Vindicare:
- He desperatly needs flat 3 dmg on his one shot sniper rifle imo. That one shot really has to have an impact and characters have so many wounds nowadays, he's more of an annoyance than a real threat. His mortal wound output is fine I guess, because you have the chance to highroll, which is cute.
- His -2 to hit while in cover is useless in 9th so I'd change it to: if this model is in cover, it can never be hit better than on a 4+ by a ranged attack. Gives him at least some survivability, since he's mostly gonna sneek around alone and thus the enemy will likely be able to shoot at him.
Culexus:
- I think he just needs flat dmg 2 on his animus speculum, other than that hes fine I guess. Good against psykers and supremely annoying to deal with. His fight last stratagem is really good, but with the prevalence of free fight last rules in the last couple of codex releases, I'd reduce the cost of this strat to 1CP. Baking that fight last aura into his datasheet might be too good...not sure.
Eversor:
- More attacks and maybe some mortal wound output in melee when he successfully charges or extra AP on 6s to wound, something like that. He's a fun little murder missle right now, but he still feels a bit weak. He doesn't have that much of an impact and doesn't really have high quality attacks, so he's mostly just quite an expensive distraction model.
Callidus:
- Man, I don't know....if you increase the dmg and/or strength on her phase sword she might be too good, cause ignoring invulns is really nice right now. I'm really not sure how to tweak the callidus to make her viable...
Edit: Give the Eversor a 1CP strat where he can inhibit an enemy unit from falling back on a 4+ or something.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/03/26 11:02:18
Definitely agree on the Vindicare getting D3 on his rifle. I'd also perhaps make him immune to any hit modifiers.
Culexus needs a big change to the Animus. You're right in that no-one actually takes him to assassinate psychic characters, they just take him for the debuff and hard-to-hit rule.
I'd perhaps make it something like this:
Range 12", S5 Ap-4 D2, Assault 3. If a Psyker is killed by this weapon, roll a D6. On a 4+ they suffer Perils of the Warp before the model is removed - Essentially they blow up on death.
Eversor I think is ok-ish at the moment. Neurogauntlet may be nicer at Ap-2. I'd also change the Sentinel Array, seems a bit meh at the moment.
Callidus: Perhaps the Neural Shredder could use a bit of a buff. Bring the range up to 12", and perhaps the following:
- Roll 3D6 if this weapon hits the target. If you roll higher than the target unit's highest Leadership, the unit suffers a number of Mortal Wounds equal to the difference between the results.
I love those changes, but no way they stay 85 points with those buffs. Right now they are barely worth the cost of the units as is. If you buff them, they go up to way, 100-115 each? Thats like an HQ slot. No thank you. They will not earn those points back.
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote: I love those changes, but no way they stay 85 points with those buffs. Right now they are barely worth the cost of the units as is. If you buff them, they go up to way, 100-115 each? Thats like an HQ slot. No thank you. They will not earn those points back.
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote: I love those changes, but no way they stay 85 points with those buffs. Right now they are barely worth the cost of the units as is. If you buff them, they go up to way, 100-115 each? Thats like an HQ slot. No thank you. They will not earn those points back.
They're 100 points already.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
Given GW's infatuation with buffing things this edition, maybe they would stay the same cost. I just don't think it would be fair to non-imperium armies, that can't field special elite WS/BS 2 5W units that wound infantry on 2s and ignore invuln saves.
I just want to suggest that maybe making it so a list can include an Inquisitor AND an Assassin. I've only built a few lists in 9th and I want to give my Vindicare a chance, but each time I'm presented with an option of either super useful, well rounded, relatively cheap, Psyker of an Inquisitor with all their fancy gear and abilities OR an overpriced maybe useful assassin. Why not fix the assassins either by majorly reducing the cost or buffing them plus allow one Inquisitor AND one Officio Assassinorum model in a list. Right now it's really a no brainer for me with how pricy and mediocre assassins are right now.
Vindicare:
- He desperatly needs flat 3 dmg on his one shot sniper rifle imo. That one shot really has to have an impact and characters have so many wounds nowadays, he's more of an annoyance than a real threat. His mortal wound output is fine I guess, because you have the chance to highroll, which is cute.
- His -2 to hit while in cover is useless in 9th so I'd change it to: if this model is in cover, it can never be hit better than on a 4+ by a ranged attack. Gives him at least some survivability, since he's mostly gonna sneek around alone and thus the enemy will likely be able to shoot at him.
Flat 3 damage is probably fine. Illic Nightspear has it, and he's not popping up left and right. I'm very much not a fan of the "can't be hit on better than X" thing here for the same reasons I didn't like it in the Phoenix Lord thread. Marines with their augmented senses, auspex built into their helmets, and super duper training would be impacted by this while a humble guardsman would be shooting as well as ever. That's weird, right?
As an alternative, how about something like, "Units ore than 12" away may not declare this unit as the target of a shooting attack unless it is the closest unit." So sort of kind of like giving them the 8th edition character protection back. You can bypass it by getting close, but your vindicaire is unlikely to get sniped out by a bassilisk in the backfield.
Culexus:
- I think he just needs flat dmg 2 on his animus speculum, other than that hes fine I guess. Good against psykers and supremely annoying to deal with. His fight last stratagem is really good, but with the prevalence of free fight last rules in the last couple of codex releases, I'd reduce the cost of this strat to 1CP. Baking that fight last aura into his datasheet might be too good...not sure.
I'd probably leave fight last as a strat, but everything else seems fine. Although... does extra damage on his gun really fix any issues? It makes him better at killing marines, but is that really his job? I don't know. I think the point of this guy is that he's annoyingly hard to kill if you don't have flamers, and he debuffs your opponent's psychic abilities. Your proposed buffs probably don't break him, but I'm not sure they meaningfully change him either. If you're budgeting the points/CP to field an assassin, I feel like there are already plenty of situations where you'd consider picking the Culexus.
Eversor:
- More attacks and maybe some mortal wound output in melee when he successfully charges or extra AP on 6s to wound, something like that. He's a fun little murder missle right now, but he still feels a bit weak. He doesn't have that much of an impact and doesn't really have high quality attacks, so he's mostly just quite an expensive distraction model.
Better AP than AP -3 from his power sword? I feel like you want this guy to be a marine killer. To me, it looks like he's very much designed to be a horde killer. The appeal of him is just watching him mulch an entire squad of squishies in a single turn. And he still seems killy enough to assassinate most characters if he needs to (especially once you factor in the explosion). I don't know. I'd take this guy in my xenos and chaos armies if I could. Does he not math out well compared to other options for similar points? Most of my phoenix lords wish they hit as hard as this guy or had his 3d6" charge roll.
Edit: Give the Eversor a 1CP strat where he can inhibit an enemy unit from falling back on a 4+ or something.
Instead of the free pistol attacks he gets when they fall back?
Callidus:
- Man, I don't know....if you increase the dmg and/or strength on her phase sword she might be too good, cause ignoring invulns is really nice right now. I'm really not sure how to tweak the callidus to make her viable...
What do you feel her role should be, and how is she failing in it? On paper, she seems to be all about disruption. Her CP shenanigans are cute and can make turn 1 wombo combos really expensive. Her deepstrike trick lets her charge (and thus tie up) backfield targets pretty reliably. And she's doing that while hitting as hard or harder than most of my phoenix lords in melee. She doesn't have the same wow factor that the other assassins have, but she's another unit that my non-imperial armies would take in a heartbeat if they could.
ATTENTION. Psychic tests are unfluffy. Your longing for AV is understandable but misguided. Your chapter doesn't need a separate codex. Doctrines should go away. Being a "troop" means nothing. This has been a cranky service announcement. You may now resume your regularly scheduled arguing.
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote: Given GW's infatuation with buffing things this edition, maybe they would stay the same cost. I just don't think it would be fair to non-imperium armies, that can't field special elite WS/BS 2 5W units that wound infantry on 2s and ignore invuln saves.
Why would that not be fair? Ignoring invulns is becoming somewhat of a banality nowadays and assassins need to make an impact, preferably in their respective Niche. Therefore the vindicare actually has to be a long range threat to characters, which he just isn't nowadays. The callidus has to actually be threatening to characters in melee, which she isn't right now, same for the other two.
Hell, raise their points by 10 or something, but give them the proper tools to actually to something, or keep them the same as they are now, but make them considerably cheaper.
Vindicare:
- He desperatly needs flat 3 dmg on his one shot sniper rifle imo. That one shot really has to have an impact and characters have so many wounds nowadays, he's more of an annoyance than a real threat. His mortal wound output is fine I guess, because you have the chance to highroll, which is cute.
- His -2 to hit while in cover is useless in 9th so I'd change it to: if this model is in cover, it can never be hit better than on a 4+ by a ranged attack. Gives him at least some survivability, since he's mostly gonna sneek around alone and thus the enemy will likely be able to shoot at him.
Flat 3 damage is probably fine. Illic Nightspear has it, and he's not popping up left and right. I'm very much not a fan of the "can't be hit on better than X" thing here for the same reasons I didn't like it in the Phoenix Lord thread. Marines with their augmented senses, auspex built into their helmets, and super duper training would be impacted by this while a humble guardsman would be shooting as well as ever. That's weird, right?
As an alternative, how about something like, "Units ore than 12" away may not declare this unit as the target of a shooting attack unless it is the closest unit." So sort of kind of like giving them the 8th edition character protection back. You can bypass it by getting close, but your vindicaire is unlikely to get sniped out by a bassilisk in the backfield.
Culexus:
- I think he just needs flat dmg 2 on his animus speculum, other than that hes fine I guess. Good against psykers and supremely annoying to deal with. His fight last stratagem is really good, but with the prevalence of free fight last rules in the last couple of codex releases, I'd reduce the cost of this strat to 1CP. Baking that fight last aura into his datasheet might be too good...not sure.
I'd probably leave fight last as a strat, but everything else seems fine. Although... does extra damage on his gun really fix any issues? It makes him better at killing marines, but is that really his job? I don't know. I think the point of this guy is that he's annoyingly hard to kill if you don't have flamers, and he debuffs your opponent's psychic abilities. Your proposed buffs probably don't break him, but I'm not sure they meaningfully change him either. If you're budgeting the points/CP to field an assassin, I feel like there are already plenty of situations where you'd consider picking the Culexus.
Eversor:
- More attacks and maybe some mortal wound output in melee when he successfully charges or extra AP on 6s to wound, something like that. He's a fun little murder missle right now, but he still feels a bit weak. He doesn't have that much of an impact and doesn't really have high quality attacks, so he's mostly just quite an expensive distraction model.
Better AP than AP -3 from his power sword? I feel like you want this guy to be a marine killer. To me, it looks like he's very much designed to be a horde killer. The appeal of him is just watching him mulch an entire squad of squishies in a single turn. And he still seems killy enough to assassinate most characters if he needs to (especially once you factor in the explosion). I don't know. I'd take this guy in my xenos and chaos armies if I could. Does he not math out well compared to other options for similar points? Most of my phoenix lords wish they hit as hard as this guy or had his 3d6" charge roll.
Edit: Give the Eversor a 1CP strat where he can inhibit an enemy unit from falling back on a 4+ or something.
Instead of the free pistol attacks he gets when they fall back?
Callidus:
- Man, I don't know....if you increase the dmg and/or strength on her phase sword she might be too good, cause ignoring invulns is really nice right now. I'm really not sure how to tweak the callidus to make her viable...
What do you feel her role should be, and how is she failing in it? On paper, she seems to be all about disruption. Her CP shenanigans are cute and can make turn 1 wombo combos really expensive. Her deepstrike trick lets her charge (and thus tie up) backfield targets pretty reliably. And she's doing that while hitting as hard or harder than most of my phoenix lords in melee. She doesn't have the same wow factor that the other assassins have, but she's another unit that my non-imperial armies would take in a heartbeat if they could.
That is a fair breakdown and critique of my points, but while my suggestions might not be the best, the core issue is this, since it came up in your response: the assassins are not bad, but they are not worth taking in any imperium list right now, save for the culexus because of his strat.
I like your solution to the vindicare very much, giving him quasi 8th ed character protection at range, more elegant solution than mine.
The buff in dmg for the culexus is needed to actually make him a threat to psyker characters, which is his primary role.
You are right the eversor is primarily a horde mulcher, but he isn't worth his cost to kill a few orks and he is less efficient at it than a squad of assault intercessors. And yes the strat to inhibit fall back would be nice on him I think, because the strat that let's him shoot his pistol is a bad joke. Inhibiting fall back is actually useful and not a given on a 4+, so it's not too strong of an effect I think
Many of your points seem to hinge on the fact that assassins seem to be better than some Phoenix Lords and therefore they can't be that bad, right? The problem is that Phoenix Lords are just garbage right now, they desperately, desperately need an update. They need to be on the same power level as the new drazhar, who is an absolute murder machine and one of the best melee characters in the game.
All of that does not mean however, that assassins are fine as they are. Phoenix Lords absolutely needing a ton of buffs does not mean assassins don't also need at least some minor tweaks
I would like the Culexus to be able to force a psyker into Perils of the Warp? Obviously this is broken as hell, but if you made it a "If an opponents psyker makes a psychic action, roll a D6, on a 6, that unit suffers perils of the warp." Then it's only 17% and it's more thematically intune with their purpose. Gakking up Psykers. Maybe with a strat drop it to a 5+.
Vindys already get 2-4 wounds per turn, with their headshot ability. I don't want to see trios of these guys showing up in lists deleting Morty or DPs. Keep him at D3 but make his gun S8 so he can wound vehicles.
Eversor - Make the Bio-meltdown flat 2MW on a 3+. Give it a "appear from the shadows" style infiltration.
Calli - remove it from the game, serves no purpose. Doesn't have character targeting, can't do jack against HQs, or big elites, Can't even earn it's points back against a squad of marines. Rubbish bin.
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote: I would like the Culexus to be able to force a psyker into Perils of the Warp? Obviously this is broken as hell, but if you made it a "If an opponents psyker makes a psychic action, roll a D6, on a 6, that unit suffers perils of the warp." Then it's only 17% and it's more thematically intune with their purpose. Gakking up Psykers. Maybe with a strat drop it to a 5+.
Vindys already get 2-4 wounds per turn, with their headshot ability. I don't want to see trios of these guys showing up in lists deleting Morty or DPs. Keep him at D3 but make his gun S8 so he can wound vehicles.
Eversor - Make the Bio-meltdown flat 2MW on a 3+. Give it a "appear from the shadows" style infiltration.
Calli - remove it from the game, serves no purpose. Doesn't have character targeting, can't do jack against HQs, or big elites, Can't even earn it's points back against a squad of marines. Rubbish bin.
Your best shot at tweaking the callidus to make her viable is to actually just remove the unit from the game? I like you man, but sometimes I you go too extreme in one direction with ideas. You can't just remove a unit that has been an integral part of the assassin fluff for decades and that has a relatively new plastic model...
Speaking of hyperbole, how would 3 vindicares delete morty exactly?
The eversor needs more that just a buff on how he explodes.
The culexus giving psykers some sort of debuff so they perils easier I can totally get behind.
Oh crap, I totally forgot Morty has that 5+ FNP. So there goes the Mortal spam with 3x headshotting Vindys. Nevermind.
As for my deleting the Callidus, what role does it play? It's primary focus appears to be infiltrating and attacking a unit. There is no other bonus that it gets. It can't target characters, it gets barely any Strategem support, and it's kinda worthless in combat. I'd say it's for popping out and dropping a squad of elite or heavy units like Exterminators or Eradicators, but they will shred it in overwatch, and its will barely kill 2 of them if it makes it. It's Reign of Confusion is gimmicky and kinda crap. It's a slightly less effective Eversor, and the Eversor is only effective because of it's Frenzon and meltdown. I mean, you could give it some sort of relic power sword for flat 3 damage that ignores invulns? But then it's broken for 100 points.
Honestly, I'd rather spend time debating how to make Ratlings an effective unit, or Wyrdvane Psykers, or AM medics. It's not worth the effort of re-building a unit that a.Has no established purpose, and B. Sucks at it's intended purpose (Being a stealthy assasin)
Right now the callidus doesn't relly have a place outside of fringe uses like you said, but that was kinda the point of this thread. Find some ideas as to how to make her viable and interesting.
I think the problem is how do you make the callidus fun to play against? Fluff wise, she should basically get a free charge into combat wherever the controlling player chooses. The problem is that’s a horrible concept.
Best I can come up with is that the callidus gets a rule where you secretly chose an opposing infantry unit at the start of the game before deployment. At the end of your movement phase on turn 2 or turn 3 you can place the callidus within 3” of the chosen units. She may be placed in engagement range and counts as charging for this turn.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I guess it should be any movement phase so that the assassin isn’t killed if you go first and the chosen unit gets put into deepstrike. And if the unit is in a transport she can deploy within 3” of the transport instead
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/03/27 01:32:22
In lore that I remember, Callidus are supposed to be shapeshifters that infiltrate the enemy, usually by killing a random grunt and working their way up to their target, then assassinating their target. Sometimes they even then replace their target and sow confusion from within.
Perhaps to make the Callidus more worth her points, she has an ability called "Hidden Among the Enemy" where before the match, instead of deploying normally she is placed in Concealment.
Then, at the beginning of any turn after the first turn her controller may activate "Reign of Confusion" and declare their assassin's intent to break her cover and strike her target. At the beginning of the next Fight Phase during the match, her controller may place her in Engagement range of any enemy Infantry model and immediately Fight that model counting as having Charged and at +1 Strength and Attacks for her first Fight that phase. If she successfully kills her target in that Fight Phase, she may make an immediate move action ignoring normal rules of Engagement and move through enemy models, though she cannot end her move overlapping any other models as normal.
I'm pretty new to the current things and still learning as I go, so that may be entirely broken, but it sounds about as close as one can get to following Callidus lore and making her have some use. This way, she remains fairly mediocre in open combat, but excels at assassinating a specific target. This makes her a quick and dirty way to remove an enemy Character, but if you send her against something very powerful she can still fail. If she succeeds, she more or less earns her points back in the trade and makes a full army debuff for your opponent. Even if she fails her initial strike, there's still the army debuff and she may yet have a chance of fulfilling her mission. Either way, she will likely not survive the mission, which is very in keeping with how the Officio Assassinorum treats their operatives.
In lore that I remember, Callidus are supposed to be shapeshifters that infiltrate the enemy, usually by killing a random grunt and working their way up to their target, then assassinating their target. Sometimes they even then replace their target and sow confusion from within.
Perhaps to make the Callidus more worth her points, she has an ability called "Hidden Among the Enemy" where before the match, instead of deploying normally she is placed in Concealment.
Then, at the beginning of any turn after the first turn her controller may activate "Reign of Confusion" and declare their assassin's intent to break her cover and strike her target. At the beginning of the next Fight Phase during the match, her controller may place her in Engagement range of any enemy Infantry model and immediately Fight that model counting as having Charged and at +1 Strength and Attacks for her first Fight that phase. If she successfully kills her target in that Fight Phase, she may make an immediate move action ignoring normal rules of Engagement and move through enemy models, though she cannot end her move overlapping any other models as normal.
I'm pretty new to the current things and still learning as I go, so that may be entirely broken, but it sounds about as close as one can get to following Callidus lore and making her have some use. This way, she remains fairly mediocre in open combat, but excels at assassinating a specific target. This makes her a quick and dirty way to remove an enemy Character, but if you send her against something very powerful she can still fail. If she succeeds, she more or less earns her points back in the trade and makes a full army debuff for your opponent. Even if she fails her initial strike, there's still the army debuff and she may yet have a chance of fulfilling her mission. Either way, she will likely not survive the mission, which is very in keeping with how the Officio Assassinorum treats their operatives.
Instantly charging any infantry unit seems a little too good. I think you should force some form of planning beyond "Ah yes, I will lock up whatever I want now"
In lore that I remember, Callidus are supposed to be shapeshifters that infiltrate the enemy, usually by killing a random grunt and working their way up to their target, then assassinating their target. Sometimes they even then replace their target and sow confusion from within.
Perhaps to make the Callidus more worth her points, she has an ability called "Hidden Among the Enemy" where before the match, instead of deploying normally she is placed in Concealment.
Then, at the beginning of any turn after the first turn her controller may activate "Reign of Confusion" and declare their assassin's intent to break her cover and strike her target. At the beginning of the next Fight Phase during the match, her controller may place her in Engagement range of any enemy Infantry model and immediately Fight that model counting as having Charged and at +1 Strength and Attacks for her first Fight that phase. If she successfully kills her target in that Fight Phase, she may make an immediate move action ignoring normal rules of Engagement and move through enemy models, though she cannot end her move overlapping any other models as normal.
I'm pretty new to the current things and still learning as I go, so that may be entirely broken, but it sounds about as close as one can get to following Callidus lore and making her have some use. This way, she remains fairly mediocre in open combat, but excels at assassinating a specific target. This makes her a quick and dirty way to remove an enemy Character, but if you send her against something very powerful she can still fail. If she succeeds, she more or less earns her points back in the trade and makes a full army debuff for your opponent. Even if she fails her initial strike, there's still the army debuff and she may yet have a chance of fulfilling her mission. Either way, she will likely not survive the mission, which is very in keeping with how the Officio Assassinorum treats their operatives.
Instantly charging any infantry unit seems a little too good. I think you should force some form of planning beyond "Ah yes, I will lock up whatever I want now"
I know it's a bit on the good side, but honestly she doesn't have much other use. The entire point of her is to assassinate her target and sow confusion in the enemy via the aftermath. Her being able to suddenly tie down any unit for a turn is the utility that makes her worth the points. She doesn't have the stats to last more than a single turn unless incredibly lucky, so she's kinda like a targeted kill and tie up. That would be her shtick as opposed to the rest of the assassins that cover melee and ranged kills as well as minor anti-psyker utility. So she gets to be the actual assassin in the enemy's midst.
As for the strategy of it, it's planning when to use her and who to target. If you target something too big, you've effectively wasted her since she appears in the Fight Phase and thus doesn't tie up any enemy that turn. It's only if she survives that she can tie up an enemies movement. So it's like, best case scenario she kills her target and ties up a unit. Second best case she fails to kill her target but survives long enough to keep that unit engaged in their next Movement Phase. Worst case her target kills her and continues as normal.
If what you're worried about is her Engaging an enemy and taking their attacks away from other units, think of it like a Heroic Intervention. They can still choose to ignore her and attack whomever else they are engaged with. If fact, they might have to if they themselves Charged or Heroic Interventioned into Engagement with another unit.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/03/27 02:54:22
I don't disagree that she should be able to pop out an engage A target. I just disagree that it should be ANY target. If she can pop up on any infantry unit, there's almost zero interaction for the player without the assassin. That's not good game design.
Forcing you to pick the unit before deployment gives the non assassin player at least a chance to not get punched in the face, if they can deploy safely enough or guess your target. Chances are the assassin will still make an impact but it won't be as easy as placing a single model within engagement range over a 5 turn game.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: At the beginning of the game, choose D3 Infantry units, and then she pops up T2 or T3. Seem solid enough?
Yeah, the randomization of the unit she comes up by was something I considered at first, but I didn't think of narrowing it to just 3 possible so I didn't put it in. Good thought. I keep forgetting GW added D3s into the game since it's all officially played with D6s.
One thing I would like to add to that is "The list of which units that have been chosen as Targets is written down before the game starts but after sharing army lists. It is then placed face down so the opponent can't see what Targets the controller has chosen. This list is then turned face up and used as the roll chart when she enters play. When this list is turned face up, all units chosen as Targets gain the Target keyword until the end of play and the Target keyword cannot be removed, moved, or altered in anyway."
Then her ability as I described would be split into two and the Charge bonus of +1 Strength and Attacks until end of phase would apply whenever she Charges a unit bearing the Target keyword. This would give her a bit more usefulness if she somehow survives long enough to Charge one of the other Targets without being a broken buff.
So it would end up as something like this:
Kill Command: At the start deployment, this units controller must designate 3 Targets from among their opponents forces and give each a number between 1-3. These Targets must all have the Infantry keyword. If there are not enough valid units to designate 3, then designate as many as possible.
Hidden Among the Enemy: This units controller may choose to have it start play in disguise instead of setting up normally. If they do so, do not activate Reign of Confusion on the first turn. At the beginning of turn 2 or 3, if this unit is in disguise, then the controller may declare their assassin's intent to break disguise. If they do so, immediately activate Reign of Confusion as if it were the first turn. At the beginning of the next Fight Phase, turn the list of Targets face up and declare the chosen units and their numbers. Give the chosen units the Target keyword until the end of play. The Target keyword cannot be removed, moved, or altered in anyway. Then, roll a D3 on the list and place this model in Engagement range of the Target whose number was rolled and it is counted as having Charged the Target for the first time it fights this phase. If the Target unit rolled is Embarked on a Transport, it is immediately dealt D3+1 Mortal Wounds and this model is set up 6" away from the base (hull) of the Transport, even if that Transport has the Fly keyword. If the Target rolled is not in play at this time, whether in reserves or destroyed, reroll the result. These rolls cannot be modified and can only be rerolled if the Target rolled is not on the field. If there are no designated Targets on the field at this time, this model may deploy from any side of the board, but must deploy at least 6" away from enemy models. If it has not deployed by the end of the battle, it is counted as destroyed.
Designated Targets: Whenever this model Charges a unit with the Target keyword, it gets +1 Strength and +1 Attacks until the end of the turn.
Strike and Fade: If this unit destroys the last model in a Target unit, then it may immediately make a Normal Move action as if it were it's controller's Movement Phase.
I think that looks fair.
Edits: Phew. A few quick edits to make it look nice and cover a few holes I immediately noticed.
Edits2: Reread and realized I hadn't covered the "the targets are in a transport" theoretical nor included the movement after killing a target to give her just that slight bit more survivability.
This message was edited 10 times. Last update was at 2021/03/27 18:46:51
What if the Calli can use it's mimicry to effect itself?
At the start of the game, choose one Troop/Elite/HQ unit on the map. The Calladius gains one of that character's abilities until the end of the game, or until it dies.
At the start of the game, choose one Troop/Elite/HQ unit on the map. The Calladius gains one of that character's abilities until the end of the game, or until it dies.
I would take 3 of those in a heartbeat.
That is a cool idea, but almost certainly broken.
Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne!
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote: Right, what if it was also that unit's statline it "declares itself"?
I mean, realistically in most cases you'll be choosing characters since they have the abilities/auras you want, and their statlines are pretty much in line with what you have already and you still have a 4+ invuln so it's not like you'll be reducing yourself to S2 or T2, if you copy a Daemon Prince you get buffed to S7 and T6 so its rarely going to be a hindrance. It also brings into question how you would handle the keyword aspects of these abilities that can get needlessly complicated with how it interacts with your army. Doesn't sound balanced to me at all.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/03/27 21:20:15
