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Dungeons and Lasers 3 - Woodhaven (modular HIPS fantasy buildings) - Kickstarter now live  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
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Made in ie
Fixture of Dakka






EB mini available for first 48 hours 1 per backer not pledge.

Kickstarter page

Facebook page

Preview videos

Preview #1 February 9th Woodhaven Q&A
Preview #2 March 9th D&L 3 Livestream
Preview #3 March 25th Woodhaven preview livestream
Preview #4 April 8th Sewers and Roofs

The KS is fantasy themed only - no Sci-Fi this time they mentioned plans for a separate Sci-Fi project later (no further details given)

This message was edited 25 times. Last update was at 2021/05/04 18:24:15


 
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

I think they've said that townsfolk like the guards that come in 3s will have some degree of customisation in one of the live streams (but not any that are single)

but I can't find it now annoyingly

 
   
Made in si
Ravenous Beast Form







I really don't need rooms but that townsfolk pack is going to be such absurd value that I'll probably be able to consider the rooms essentially free with the 85€ pledge. If I can swap them for something like stairs or bridges that'd be lovely too.

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Made in nl
Regular Dakkanaut






It's a shame that most of the townsfolk are guards. Those are figures that most people already have minis for, whereas just normal noncombatants are always in short supply. I'll have to look at the details when it comes out, because I might very well end up going for this.

   
Made in us
Nimble Pistolier




Baltimore, MD USA

So no "miniature only" level? That may make me sit this out.

Depends on how big i go in of the Fireforge KS... Hmmm...
   
Made in us
[DCM]
[Jǫtunn]






.

I wish there was a 'roof' option for these rooms...

...unless there is one?

   
Made in si
Ravenous Beast Form







Roofs will be revealed on Thursday

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Made in gb
[DCM]
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

 Smokestack wrote:
So no "miniature only" level? That may make me sit this out.

Depends on how big i go in of the Fireforge KS... Hmmm...


they don't make you buy stuff you don't want so i'm sure you'll be able to get the minis, you just wont get the stretch goals free, but you should be able to add them on too if you want them

it will be a question of what's cheaper (it could be getting the cheapest pledge that gets the stretches and dumping or selling the terrain)

 
   
Made in us
Nimble Pistolier




Baltimore, MD USA

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
 Smokestack wrote:
So no "miniature only" level? That may make me sit this out.

Depends on how big i go in of the Fireforge KS... Hmmm...


they don't make you buy stuff you don't want so i'm sure you'll be able to get the minis, you just wont get the stretch goals free, but you should be able to add them on too if you want them

it will be a question of what's cheaper (it could be getting the cheapest pledge that gets the stretches and dumping or selling the terrain)


I asked them through Facebook if there was any chance of a miniatures only pledge. They basically said the same thing you did

“ Hi Bill, probably not. But the miniature set will be available as an add-on.”
   
Made in ie
Fixture of Dakka






KS page has been updated.

Townsfolk set has been changed - Guards go from 3 duplicates to 2 but there are unrevealed designs so hopefully they are adding more variants. There are also female guards now. If those 10 silhouettes are actual models and you get 2 that would bring the number back up to 67 per the original image. I'm sure they'll explain more in tonight's livestream.

Spoiler:


Add on packs price TBC.

Stairs, Street Lanterns, Balustrades, extra trim sets etc.

Spoiler:

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/04/08 17:45:26


 
   
Made in si
Ravenous Beast Form







Brave of them to commit to tooling at least one additional sprue right off the bat in place of a third copy of the basic one.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Facebook live now https://www.facebook.com/dungeonsandlasers/videos/3860504137350749


Automatically Appended Next Post:


Transparent plastic water!

Sorry, Alpharius, I cropped most of the roof

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/04/08 19:47:33


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Made in ie
Fixture of Dakka






Livestream #1 - Sewers Tour

Some other details

Sewer floor tiles will be cast in transparent plastic
Ghost NPCs in transparent plastic - add on
Double width water tiles will be available (no border)
One roof design only, 1 side only no interior detail - add on
City streets available with double width tile with no border
Townsfolk starter - silhouettes are extra unique NPCs they are not guards, guards reduced to 2 copies of each so 1/3 less guards now - it's what people asked for
Lantern pack design is WIP.
No docks they have been dropped

D&L2 backers will get a sample frame in their packs.

[Thumb - NPCs.png]
NPC concepts

[Thumb - Sewers.png]
Sewers

[Thumb - Roof.png]
Roof

[Thumb - Sample.png]
Sample Frame

   
Made in si
Ravenous Beast Form







This is going to easily be the biggest and cheapest HIPS Kickstarter ever by an enourmous margin and Archon already has the top 4 spots right now.

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Made in us
Courageous Questing Knight





Central Cimmeria

I don't know how they are affording it, but count me in.

The townsfolk in plastic is what convinced me to open my wallet.
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

 Gallahad wrote:
I don't know how they are affording it, but count me in.

The townsfolk in plastic is what convinced me to open my wallet.


they've got all (?) the aspects in house now,concept art(? not sure if they've an in house artist or that's been handled by freelancers) 3d modelling, 'cutting' the figures for production, mould tooling and injection moulding so their costs will be a lot, lot lower than if they had to contract out any or all of these,

(and they've clearly been investing as we've seen them buy in additional machines over the plastic KS projects)

they're also not going to have to worry about timing things to hit a pre-booked production slot which probably represents a real saving on salaries which seem to have been an issue on a fair few failed KS

and the tech getting cheaper and smaller has no doubt helped a lot too, I doubt it would have been possible even 10 years ago with the same (inflation adjusted) income

 
   
Made in us
Incorporating Wet-Blending






I failed my perception roll and didn't notice that the D&L3 rooms don't have doors!

Take a look at this D&L2 update how they *might* be selling the functional doors (doors that open and close) as add-on sets in D&L3. You get 2x doors (and only doors) matching each room set Archon offers. If you want door frames to go along with the doors (eg. because you have a door to a room you didn't buy), you can buy the frame add-on. So if you buy the same number of each of the rooms and want matching doors that open and close, you're okay, but if you only want to buy multiples of one of the rooms... well, look at the update. As said, Archon will be selling the doors and door frames separately as add-ons, but this sorta defeats the purpose of inexpensive terrain, as well as buying multiples of only the rooms you want. Overall, though, the KS should be a good value, with all the SG's they throw in, the inexpensive miniatures, and the core sets. Also, of course, it's difficult to find anyone that makes village game tiles, although I hear good things about Battle Systems...

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/archonstudio/dungeons-and-lasers-second-edition/posts/3158361

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/04/14 05:37:08


Good fiction is consistent. 
   
Made in gb
Highlord of Terra






Adrift within the vortex of my imagination.

Well that is a small downer, I bought five door sets and now find that the doors will not add extra wall tiles to my set, and the doors for sets I do not have will be wasted unless I find a way to convert them.

I will have significantly less than what I ordered, but I ordered enough that it should be too big of an issue.

n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.

It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. 
   
Made in si
Ravenous Beast Form







The door debacle is quite the debacle.

Archon are putting big money towards fixing it by cutting 2 new molds, but then this requires customers to also spend even more money to get what they thought they already paid for. Looks like lose/lose to me.

Step 1 should have been refunding the door addons. Then maybe the option to buy doors with or without frames in D&L3.

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Made in gb
Highlord of Terra






Adrift within the vortex of my imagination.

Its a total FUBAR to anyone who made lob sided purchases. Didn't buy any of that room, cant use that door unless you convert and I don't think it will be an easy conversion job, especially for the SF doors.

I made a large order but it was lobsided, some rooms I want more of than others. Looks like I will need some doorway sprues.

n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.

It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. 
   
Made in us
Incorporating Wet-Blending






Yup. Step 0 is to have doors in the rooms and core sets in the first place.

Archon's fixing a problem -- and not fixing another problem. The new molds are expensive, but don't fix the situation where someone wants multiples of a room, but not multiples of a door from another room. i guess if Archon uses a KS model, this works, but I can't see it working retail. Who's going to buy a wooden cottage that has no door? And, when they do buy the wooden cottage, how will they react when they have to also buy doors of sets they don't (yet) want? Hopefully, Archon will clip off the pieces suchthat retailers will get a room with doors, just as some companies will sell you pieces already cut off from the sprue (eg. Mantic).

> Looks like lose/lose to me.

Yep! Way too much of KS is lose / lose. Delays, miscommunications, project management failures... Well, as long as I get my shinies at a still-reasonable price. Wonder if I should get a second box of Townsfolk for $20 even though I don't need them...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/14 10:25:47


Good fiction is consistent. 
   
Made in si
Ravenous Beast Form







Tooling 6 doors for different themes on one sprue was pretty dumb in the first place, yea, frames or no frames. Now they're tooling the 6 frames also together on one sprue so you can at least get 1:1 doors and frames, but you're still going to have too many or too few of particular ones depending on your room choices.

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Made in gb
[DCM]
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

But if they had to add a largish door to the room sprue what could they drop to make space for it, basically it eats up the space of a full wall section,

I'm guessing that's why they originally planned not to have doors in the first place

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/14 11:50:48


 
   
Made in si
Ravenous Beast Form







It could possibly be in the frame itself, with very thin plastic at the join. The original Cities of Death terrain was like this, doors molded closed but with a deep recesses all around that was easily cut through. Then you just have to squeeze the hinges on the connector sprue or something.

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Made in us
Infiltrating Broodlord




Lake County, Illinois

I don't know, it seems pretty clear to me from the picture what you'd be getting, and that you'd just be getting the doors, not the doorways. Yes, it is a pretty dumb way to do it because there is a lot of waste, but I don't see how people were deceived by it. People who didn't like the idea should have just not ordered those sprues. I don't see why they need to make up for it.

It would certainly be better to have included doors with the sets so you'd have the right number of each. But then they'd have to take something out.
   
Made in us
Incorporating Wet-Blending






As it is, they have to make two more molds to "fix" the problem, have another mold for static doors, and a mold for the functional doors or something to that effect. That's four sets of molds, already. One more, and they would have had an additional mold for each set, that could have been used for doors *and* additional elements.

But the reality is, that, at least at retail, when someone buys a village terrain set, and to a lesser extent, a dungeon, they expect enough components to make a house.

WizKids made an error with their initial dungeon and town sets. Not all customers wanted half-walls, so WK eventually released both full-wall packs, and sets with full-walls. If WizKids can't change the conventions of selling terrain packs, I doubt Archon can, either, at least at the retail level. KS backers may forgive a creator, but retail customers won't.

So... KS as usual. (: Everything's obvious in hindsight, and Archon may not wish to sell D&L retail. Or they may correct the sets in D&L4. FWP.


EDIT: Preview page has a few updates. Townsfolk miniatures still has 60+ miniatures. You can get the Fantasy Core as two rooms.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/15 02:10:31


Good fiction is consistent. 
   
Made in ie
Fixture of Dakka






The official website has some updated images







This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/15 21:01:32


 
   
Made in pl
Dakka Veteran




Germany

 DaveC wrote:
The official website has some updated images









Still quite lame how few civilians there are.

Games Workshop are not your friends. They are not a small dev trying their best. They are a multibillion dollar company making calculated decisions about how many costs they can cut, how lazy they can be about relases, and how much they can paywall. They will do it again. Stop giving them money for this. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Houston, TX

I think it is likely they made what people actually want and need, which makes sense in HIPS. Reaper has repeatedly said they get tons of requests for townsfolk, but few actual sales. In an actual game, its rare to need more than a handful of non-coms, and in those rare situations, 2d pogs will work. This seems to have 20+ usual suspects, and 4 kids, which should easily meet the vast majority of players needs.
   
Made in us
Courageous Questing Knight





Central Cimmeria

 Bossk_Hogg wrote:
I think it is likely they made what people actually want and need, which makes sense in HIPS. Reaper has repeatedly said they get tons of requests for townsfolk, but few actual sales. In an actual game, its rare to need more than a handful of non-coms, and in those rare situations, 2d pogs will work. This seems to have 20+ usual suspects, and 4 kids, which should easily meet the vast majority of players needs.


Well, it doesn't help that Reaper's Townsfolk are poorly sculpted.

Fireforge's Folk Rabble was enthusiastically received (and purchased).

What D&L is offering here looks great. I'm basically planning to pledge just to get the Townsfolk.
   
Made in gb
Highlord of Terra






Adrift within the vortex of my imagination.

 Bossk_Hogg wrote:
I think it is likely they made what people actually want and need, which makes sense in HIPS. Reaper has repeatedly said they get tons of requests for townsfolk, but few actual sales. In an actual game, its rare to need more than a handful of non-coms, and in those rare situations, 2d pogs will work. This seems to have 20+ usual suspects, and 4 kids, which should easily meet the vast majority of players needs.


This is sadly true. I have been an exception, I bought Townsfolk for Bones 5 twice and bought the Fireforge peasant set and have other miniatures built as commonfolk, notably kitbashes with Frostgrave minis and peasant sprue arms.
Even then I am an extreme case and my peasants are diluted into four categories, angry mob, refugees/travellers, working peasants and bystanders. Many are added to group bases as a scene chorus, a mob with firebrands and pitchforks is a single entity in many respects, its impotent outside the herd. To be frank most of my civvie minis are game objects, panicky objective markers to usher around, kill, steal or protect.

n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.

It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. 
   
 
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