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Made in us
Journeyman Inquisitor with Visions of the Warp




So I recently watched a youtube painter video where he went to a local Michaels (US hobby craft store) and he picked up a boxed set of "Acrylic Model paints" 24 colors in squeeze bottles, for under 30 USD.

Which got me to thinking, am I beholden to GW paints? I am not Duncan Roads, and will never likely paint anywhere near his level. So why should I buy the paints and brushes he uses?

Have you had success with off brand model paints or equipment? If so, what brands?

I found these and want to try them out....

https://www.michaels.com/acrylic-paint-24-piece-set-by-craft-smart/10518563.html The only thing missing are washes and metal paints. So here is this....same company: https://www.michaels.com/metallic-and-neon-acrylic-paint-set-by-craft-smart/10652186.html

   
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Rogue Daemonhunter fueled by Chaos






Macon, GA

Craft or artists acrylics are always a temptation, due to their high availability and low cost. I certainly don't avoid them completely, as I fined that particularly the neutrals and earth tones work great, especially on terrain.

Craft paints tend to have cheaper/less pigment, and I find that most craft paints really don't' cover well. Artists paints have better pigment, but keep in mind that colors are inherently more or less opaque.

at that price, if you're interested, take a flier on them and try it out.

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Regular Dakkanaut





I have a set of artist acrylics and they are generally... bad for mini painting because coverage is poor. The only exception is black, which is perfectly acceptable. Any decent artist brand of "mars black" will be practically identical to Abaddon black and you can buy a big tube for around the same amount as a tiny GW pot.
   
Made in us
Pragmatic Primus Commanding Cult Forces






Southeastern PA, USA

There are also levels of craft paints. I find Delta Ceramcoat to be the best overall. I use it a lot for terrain. Some of the really cheap craft paints are borderline unusable IME. You tend to get what you pay for with paint. Craft paints aren't going to thin as nicely or behave as well as miniature paints and their more finely ground pigments.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/08 15:25:30


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Some people get amazing results with craft paints, others find them unusable. Not sure if it's differences in brands, techniques, or patience.

Craft paints do have a generally lower pigment density and often a coarser pigment grind as well. The grind can be changed with several mixing balls dropped in and an extended shake in a paint mixer; this will grind the pigment a little finer. You'll probably never achieve the fine grind of a hobby paint, though.

I've been transitioning from hobby to craft paints the past few years. Craft paints require more layers to get a clean coat, but can also yield some subtle layering transitions in the process. It does take a slightly different technique to make work, but it CAN work.

Long and sort: Hobby paints are easier and faster to work with but cost more; craft paints are harder to work with and take longer to make look good, but are cheaper. Which do you have more of to spare, time, or money? Or are you just looking for more of a challenge?

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I am cheap and have no skill, and hate buying citidel paints only to suck at it.....
   
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Edinburgh, UK

Then don't buy citadel paints? Depending on the craft paint you buy you'll struggle to achieve replicable results due to the coverage being poor and larger pigment sizes, and most won't water down too well for any more advanced techniques.

There are better value for money ranges than citadel and you should use those for your minis over craft paint.

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Right. I was going to consider army painter when I saw the video. I have to assume Army painter is just slightly above Craft store Generic model paints?

I draw the same logic with power tools. Do I need the X9000 Dewalt Gas Powered contractor grade tools, or am I ok with the Ryobi Electric tool knock offs? I can't paint like Duncan, I shouldnt use what duncan uses. I can improve my skills with basic level gear, and maybe grown into citidel.
   
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Pragmatic Primus Commanding Cult Forces






Southeastern PA, USA

So which do you want...cheaper or easier to get good results with?

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Regular Dakkanaut





If you struggle with hobby paints you will struggle even more with craft paints. What is it exactly that you find difficult? Sounds like you need a product that is value for money and easy to use and for that I'd always recommend Vallejo model colour. The paint is thick and highly pigment dense so you can thin it down and one bottle will last a long time. It also covers very smoothly and is opaque.
   
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I have tried to use craft or artist paints and have gone back to paints made by hobby companies and not had great results. I think the people that can make any paint work are really great painters and probably can paint lots of different things.

Hobby paints, for me, tend to work straight out the pot, or at least require less intervention to be used in a small highly detailed model. There are a few exceptions in my kit but how much time, money and effort do you want to put into trying different brands and so on. I leaned a lot but mostly ended up buying more paints from hobby suppliers so I wish I hadn’t bothered.

However to answer one of your questions, you do not have to use GW paints or brushes like Duncan. This guy works for GW so in his videos he has to use GW stuff right? But I bet at home he uses all sort of things that GW don’t supply like airbrushes.

Anyway a lot of people like Vallejo. I really like green stuff worlds paint and other products. You just don’t get to buy the exact paints used for the colour scheme you see on the GW boxes but I prefer to make up my own colour schemes.

But also GW paints aren’t as bad as other people make out, they vary in usability, but so do all paint brands. I think you have to think about what you want to achieve.

GW brush are crap for the money, except the dry brushes.
   
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 Tyranid Horde wrote:
Then don't buy citadel paints? Depending on the craft paint you buy you'll struggle to achieve replicable results due to the coverage being poor and larger pigment sizes, and most won't water down too well for any more advanced techniques.

There are better value for money ranges than citadel and you should use those for your minis over craft paint.


True. Citadel is among the more expensive and yet low quality hobby paints. I hear Vallejo and Army Painter are much better.

EDIT: Except their metallics. Citadel metallic paints generally range from good to excellent. I may use craft paints for many things, but there's no beating a hobby paint for metallics.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/08 21:00:25


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I don't use a lot of Citadel, but I don't think they're bad miniatures paints. Personally, I wouldn't rank them behind Army Painter. The AP metals and washes are pretty good. Otherwise...eh. At least IME.

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 Vulcan wrote:
 Tyranid Horde wrote:
Then don't buy citadel paints? Depending on the craft paint you buy you'll struggle to achieve replicable results due to the coverage being poor and larger pigment sizes, and most won't water down too well for any more advanced techniques.

There are better value for money ranges than citadel and you should use those for your minis over craft paint.


True. Citadel is among the more expensive and yet low quality hobby paints. I hear Vallejo and Army Painter are much better.

EDIT: Except their metallics. Citadel metallic paints generally range from good to excellent. I may use craft paints for many things, but there's no beating a hobby paint for metallics.


Citadel aren't low quality compared to Vallejo or Army Painter. I find all the paint ranges to be similar quality, with certain ranges having strengths with certain colours but none delivering a knock out blow to any of the other brands.

Out here Citadel aren't even a hell of a lot more expensive, they're $6AUD retail and 3rd parties sell them for around $5, which is basically the same as what you'll pay for Vallejo and AP anyway.

The main thing that I continue to dislike about GW paints is their pots. They don't dry out quickly like they used to, but I still find them a pain in the arse and colours I use frequently always end up with paint around the seal regardless of trying tricks to avoid it.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/04/08 21:33:39


 
   
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FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:

I draw the same logic with power tools. Do I need the X9000 Dewalt Gas Powered contractor grade tools, or am I ok with the Ryobi Electric tool knock offs? I can't paint like Duncan, I shouldnt use what duncan uses. I can improve my skills with basic level gear, and maybe grown into citidel.

This is a bit backwards. If you're still learning, using inferior tools just makes it potentially harder for you to get good results. While the old 'a poor craftsman blames his tools' saw does hold some water, the tools do make a difference. You don't need to go laying down your life savings for the 'Super Ultra God-Edition Fine Detail Sable Brush' made from a single, specific tail hair of a virgin weasel caught at three minutes past twelve on a thursday... but buying cheap brushes and low quality paints will likely just make things hard and frustrating. Buy decent quality brushes, and use decent paints, and you'll find it easier to get good coverage and neat results, and you can build up to the more complex techniques as you feel ready to try them.

That being said, Citadel is not by any means the pinnacle of paint technology. Their brushes tend to be a bit hit and miss, and their paints, while good, are no better than many of the cheaper alternatives. Vallejo's Game Colour range is on par with Citadel for the most part. Army Painter is good, although a lot of their paints seem to be designed for a specific painting technique (blended layers over a pale basecoat) and so can seem very thin if you're used to Citadel paints. Their Quickshade washes are fantastic, though. And there is a growing range of other brands out there, and plenty of painters painting like Duncan without ever touching Citadel paints.

 
   
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This message was edited 34 times. Last update was at 2021/04/09 19:40:19


 
   
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 insaniak wrote:
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:

I draw the same logic with power tools. Do I need the X9000 Dewalt Gas Powered contractor grade tools, or am I ok with the Ryobi Electric tool knock offs? I can't paint like Duncan, I shouldnt use what duncan uses. I can improve my skills with basic level gear, and maybe grown into citidel.

This is a bit backwards. If you're still learning, using inferior tools just makes it potentially harder for you to get good results. While the old 'a poor craftsman blames his tools' saw does hold some water, the tools do make a difference. You don't need to go laying down your life savings for the 'Super Ultra God-Edition Fine Detail Sable Brush' made from a single, specific tail hair of a virgin weasel caught at three minutes past twelve on a thursday... but buying cheap brushes and low quality paints will likely just make things hard and frustrating. Buy decent quality brushes, and use decent paints, and you'll find it easier to get good coverage and neat results, and you can build up to the more complex techniques as you feel ready to try them.

That being said, Citadel is not by any means the pinnacle of paint technology. Their brushes tend to be a bit hit and miss, and their paints, while good, are no better than many of the cheaper alternatives. Vallejo's Game Colour range is on par with Citadel for the most part. Army Painter is good, although a lot of their paints seem to be designed for a specific painting technique (blended layers over a pale basecoat) and so can seem very thin if you're used to Citadel paints. Their Quickshade washes are fantastic, though. And there is a growing range of other brands out there, and plenty of painters painting like Duncan without ever touching Citadel paints.


I've always found Citadel brushes to be decent though mostly overpriced. I say "mostly" because occasionally they've had a brush that I couldn't get much cheaper elsewhere for similar quality.

Also Duncan has his own channel now where he often uses non-Citadel products.

https://www.youtube.com/c/DuncanRhodesPaintingAcademy/videos

The main downside of Duncan's techniques is it does require a crapton of paints. If you can learn to mix the darker and lighter tones of your colours then you'll save a bit of money instead of buying the base, mid tone and highlight of every single colour you want to paint.
   
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AllSeeingSkink wrote:

I've always found Citadel brushes to be decent though mostly overpriced. I say "mostly" because occasionally they've had a brush that I couldn't get much cheaper elsewhere for similar quality.

I will say, I always quite liked the 'starter' brush that I think used to come in the paint sets. It was reasonable quality, and a really handy size.

No idea about their current range of brushes. These days, I use a bunch of mid range sable brushes or cheap acrylics for bulk work, and a couple of better quality sables for detail. Although the store I was buying my cheap brushes from (because they used to have frequent 50% off sales) has gone out of business, so I'm going to have to find a new supplier when I need more...


 
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut





Oh Canada!

Buy the hobby paints that are the most cost effective for you. Every brand I've ever tried was at least decent, with only one exception (INSTAR Vintage). Vallejo, P3, Citadel, GSW, Reaper MSP, Army Painter, Scale75, - all will get the job done.

You don't need 100 bottles of paint to get rolling. Just pick 10-15 colours you'll use. Can always add to that number later on. Make sure that selection includes black, white, at least one brown or two, a neutral/buff, red, blue, yellow and maybe green. Cyan and magenta if you feel like exploring colour mixing, or whatever colours you feel like painting otherwise.

In the realm of artist paints, anything above hobby craft paint (Apple Barrel, Delta, store brand, etc.) is usually also good but may take more finagling to get the consistency right. Tube acrylics tend to be very concentrated and need to be mixed out with water and/or medium to achieve miniature paint consistency. They're extra trouble especially if you're just learning the basics.

   
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San Jose, CA

Havent seen anyone bring up Tamiya colour.

I use citadel for specific "gw" colours but exclusively Tamiya for anything else. Their metallics are far and away the best I've ever used.

Craft paint does have its uses but as previously mentioned, not the best for finely detailed minis.
   
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Longtime Dakkanaut





If you haven’t seen it watch hobby cheating on YouTube. vince has hundreds of videos and I was watching a few this morning that talked about paint and pigment density etc. This guys uses paints from lots of different manufacturers and has his faves from across lots of brands. He explains about pigment density and stuff like that.

I think the main thing is that most of the top painters that you will see on YouTube are still using hobby paints, if they were a bit of a con and the same as craft paints but with a higher price tag then we would all know about it.

Basically they are the right tool for the job
   
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Stevenage, UK

I think of it in this way:

- If I need a bookcase for my living room I could either buy the raw materials, a flat pack or a built and assembled piece of furniture. I'm perfectly capable of building a bookcase from scratch, and I wouldn't have an issue with building a flat pack one. But if there's one that's exactly what I'm after then often the time I'm saving and getting the right result straight away are worth the cost.

- I want pizza for dinner, I could buy the ingredients, the components or order in.

That's where you're at with miniature paints, they're ready to go straight out of the pot in most instances, with maybe a little thinning required for your desired result.

Other craft paints are your flat pack equivalent, there's more work involved, you need some idea of what you're doing, but you can get the same outcome.

Or you could invest in pigments, some mediums and make all of your own paints from there.

It's a cost vs time and work balance.

If your goal is to get stuff on the table to play games with as quickly and "efficiently" as possible then miniature paints are probably a better route forward.

Rik
   
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 Rik Lightstar wrote:
I think of it in this way:

- If I need a bookcase for my living room I could either buy the raw materials, a flat pack or a built and assembled piece of furniture. I'm perfectly capable of building a bookcase from scratch, and I wouldn't have an issue with building a flat pack one. But if there's one that's exactly what I'm after then often the time I'm saving and getting the right result straight away are worth the cost.

- I want pizza for dinner, I could buy the ingredients, the components or order in.

That's where you're at with miniature paints, they're ready to go straight out of the pot in most instances, with maybe a little thinning required for your desired result.

Other craft paints are your flat pack equivalent, there's more work involved, you need some idea of what you're doing, but you can get the same outcome.

Or you could invest in pigments, some mediums and make all of your own paints from there.

It's a cost vs time and work balance.

If your goal is to get stuff on the table to play games with as quickly and "efficiently" as possible then miniature paints are probably a better route forward.

Rik
A bit off example, but this sums it up perfectly well.

Citadel paints come out top if you are following the methods prescribed by GW's tutorials. It's like the coloring books with numbers labeled in each region telling you which color to use.

If you're ok with mixing your own colors and experimenting, there's no issue going with acrylic paint sets.

One thing that I do like about citadel line over tubes of paint is the fact that the retarder/medium in citadel paints separate to the top, creating a barrier which seems to help against drying out (this is only true of the new flip tops, not the old screw tops. Those used to dry within 3 months because paint gets in between the gaps of the cap, making it impossible to seal it properly, and if you twist too hard, then the paint hardens and you need pliers to open it.)

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/04/13 18:44:21


 
   
 
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