Switch Theme:

Discussing your roster with opponent and "hidden" gear  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Central California

Looking for how people feel about sharing things about your army with your opponent. I know the old share roster etc, but often opponents don't have time or inclination (and sometimes, knowledge) to completely understand an army roster.

I am not a fan of the "gotcha" nature 40k has taken (my opinion, I know).
So, for example, recently I have started using Incursors as a good take and hold an objective squad. What are people's thoughts on telling/reminding opponent's about the Haywire mine? (only effective if the unit is charged). Do you tell your oppenent at the beginning of the game? Assume since he looked at your roster he will remember that unit has one, or remind if he looks to charge them etc?

My games are almost entirely friendly, so my group would give a warning. Perhaps a simple "don't forget the Haywire mine" when the unit is moved on the objective. And of course any opponent who asks what's that unit, what do they do etc gets told.

Recently, at a tournament, I had an opponent not tell me what relic a character was carrying, even when I asked "What unit is that again?" He told me the unit name (some sort of necron HQ I'd never heard of) and their standard gun, but not the special relic they had. His justification was I didn't ask about the relic. When he revealed it I just nodded, took the result, and went on. I might have been angry, but it turned out ineffective and I destroyed the HQ anyway. It wasn't the way my group plays, so for me it wasn't the friendly spirit of the game. Another opinion, I know.

Where are you on things like that?

Keeping the hobby side alive!

I never forget the Dakka unit scale is binary: Units are either OP or Garbage. 
   
Made in us
Agile Revenant Titan





Fayetteville NC

For a tourney, ensure you gert a copy of the list, whether via BCP or on paper. When you ask a question, such as your example, you can refer to the list. From there, you can ask further questions.

In tourneys, I tend to ask broad questions as I'm playing my turn. I'm not asking for their strategy/plan, but I will ask questions (ex: does your army have a stratagem that allows a unit to shoot/assault when they leave assault?).

In our regular game nights, I always remind folks of certain things. As a Craftworld player, I always remind my opponents about the Forewarning stratagem if they are about to place a unit right in harm's way as my opponent likely forgot about the stratagem. This works on a couple levels: it allows me to play a more competitive game and it helps alleviate the gotcha moment where myself and my opponent has a fun 40K experience.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/09 15:55:24


Whoah....I have played 40K for over 30 years.  
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Every time you play someone you should start with: "Are you familiar with how my army works?"

If they say "yes," you can leave it at that, it's on them. If they say "no," explain the general contours of how stuff works, especially anything that differs from the normal rules of the game.

If someone asks what a unit is, you should absolutely tell them not only the name but also any particularly relevant wargear.

Your opponent not telling you a model had a relic when you specifically asked what the model was - especially when he told you the normal gun it had - is bad sportsmanship pure and simple, and he should be ashamed of himself. There is no possible justification for hiding that a model has an artifact.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Central California

Sarigar wrote:For a tourney, ensure you gert a copy of the list, whether via BCP or on paper. When you ask a question, such as your example, you can refer to the list. From there, you can ask further questions.

In tourneys, I tend to ask broad questions as I'm playing my turn. I'm not asking for their strategy/plan, but I will ask questions (ex: does your army have a stratagem that allows a unit to shoot/assault when they leave assault?).

In our regular game nights, I always remind folks of certain things. As a Craftworld player, I always remind my opponents about the Forewarning stratagem if they are about to place a unit right in harm's way as my opponent likely forgot about the stratagem. This works on a couple levels: it allows me to play a more competitive game and it helps alleviate the gotcha moment where myself and my opponent has a fun 40K experience.


This is how my own group works. Thanks for sharing, it's just nice to hear others play the same way.

yukishiro1 wrote:Every time you play someone you should start with: "Are you familiar with how my army works?"

If they say "yes," you can leave it at that, it's on them. If they say "no," explain the general contours of how stuff works, especially anything that differs from the normal rules of the game.

If someone asks what a unit is, you should absolutely tell them not only the name but also any particularly relevant wargear.

Your opponent not telling you a model had a relic when you specifically asked what the model was - especially when he told you the normal gun it had - is bad sportsmanship pure and simple, and he should be ashamed of himself. There is no possible justification for hiding that a model has an artifact.


Thanks Yukishiro. I didn't want to say it this way, as someone always wants to argue or claim gatekeeping etc, but I was pretty upset. He's a local, and won't get a friendly game from me.

Keeping the hobby side alive!

I never forget the Dakka unit scale is binary: Units are either OP or Garbage. 
   
Made in us
Daemonic Dreadnought




The dark hollows of Kentucky

yukishiro1 wrote:
Every time you play someone you should start with: "Are you familiar with how my army works?"

If they say "yes," you can leave it at that, it's on them. If they say "no," explain the general contours of how stuff works, especially anything that differs from the normal rules of the game.

If someone asks what a unit is, you should absolutely tell them not only the name but also any particularly relevant wargear.

Your opponent not telling you a model had a relic when you specifically asked what the model was - especially when he told you the normal gun it had - is bad sportsmanship pure and simple, and he should be ashamed of himself. There is no possible justification for hiding that a model has an artifact.

Exalted. This is exactly the way to play. The object of the game should be for both parties to have fun. Not to smash each others faces with "gotchas".
   
Made in ca
Excited Doom Diver






I usually go out of my way to avoid gotcha moments, and try to warn my opponent in phases if I am able to do something (at least for the first time). I'd rather win by choices I made, rather than my opponents ignorance of my army.

Space Wolves 4k
Harlequins 2k
Chaos Knights 2k
Spiderfangs 2k
Ossiarch Bonereapers 1k 
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






while there's basically no way to completely go over every single thing your army list can do with your opponent before the game, generally what my policy is, is to go over all the units I have, and then lay out anything that's really critical to know about their capabilities - for example, if I have an ork psyker with Da Jump, i'll let them know that means one of my infantry units will be deep striking at them each turn usually. Often, I'll focus on units that are either very fast, or unexpectedly damaging first, just to give fair warning.

"I can't believe all these tryhard WAACs out there just care about winning all the time when it's supposed to be a game for fun!!!!!!! Also here's my 27 page essay on why marines are OP and Orkz should get a bunch of OP rules so I can win more games

-the_scotsman"

-ERJAK 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





This thread reminds me....what edition was it that you didn't have to reveal wargear until it was used? Or was that Fantasy?

   
Made in fi
Ye Lord of The End Times (and a good guy)





edwardmyst wrote:
Looking for how people feel about sharing things about your army with your opponent. I know the old share roster etc, but often opponents don't have time or inclination (and sometimes, knowledge) to completely understand an army roster.

I am not a fan of the "gotcha" nature 40k has taken (my opinion, I know).
So, for example, recently I have started using Incursors as a good take and hold an objective squad. What are people's thoughts on telling/reminding opponent's about the Haywire mine? (only effective if the unit is charged). Do you tell your oppenent at the beginning of the game? Assume since he looked at your roster he will remember that unit has one, or remind if he looks to charge them etc?

My games are almost entirely friendly, so my group would give a warning. Perhaps a simple "don't forget the Haywire mine" when the unit is moved on the objective. And of course any opponent who asks what's that unit, what do they do etc gets told.

Recently, at a tournament, I had an opponent not tell me what relic a character was carrying, even when I asked "What unit is that again?" He told me the unit name (some sort of necron HQ I'd never heard of) and their standard gun, but not the special relic they had. His justification was I didn't ask about the relic. When he revealed it I just nodded, took the result, and went on. I might have been angry, but it turned out ineffective and I destroyed the HQ anyway. It wasn't the way my group plays, so for me it wasn't the friendly spirit of the game. Another opinion, I know.

Where are you on things like that?


Well equipment is easy. Lists are open. He needs to provide list with all options to show when asked. If he doesn"t have list...he doesn't have army so all models on board removed

2021 painted/bought: 538/575 
   
Made in ca
Jinking Ravenwing Land Speeder Pilot



Canada

yukishiro1 wrote:
Every time you play someone you should start with: "Are you familiar with how my army works?"

If they say "yes," you can leave it at that, it's on them. If they say "no," explain the general contours of how stuff works, especially anything that differs from the normal rules of the game.

If someone asks what a unit is, you should absolutely tell them not only the name but also any particularly relevant wargear.

Your opponent not telling you a model had a relic when you specifically asked what the model was - especially when he told you the normal gun it had - is bad sportsmanship pure and simple, and he should be ashamed of himself. There is no possible justification for hiding that a model has an artifact.


Nailed it.

When Dark Angels had a Stratagem to allow Deathwing Terminators to teleport outside of 6" of enemy if they were within 6" of a Ravenwing Biker I would explain this before the game. I did this even when an opponent waved off a list explanation because it could have dramatic results and was a new (and short-lived) Stratagem. I think a before-game review of esoteric gear like the Mine for Incursors is a good idea to avoid feels-bad moments. Better to lose a game than an opponent.

All you have to do is fire three rounds a minute, and stand 
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

edwardmyst wrote:
So, for example, recently I have started using Incursors as a good take and hold an objective squad. What are people's thoughts on telling/reminding opponent's about the Haywire mine? (only effective if the unit is charged). Do you tell your oppenent at the beginning of the game? Assume since he looked at your roster he will remember that unit has one, or remind if he looks to charge them etc?
Umm... shouldn't it be obvious if the squad has a Hawywire mine? I mean, there's literally a model holding it.

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Central California

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
edwardmyst wrote:
So, for example, recently I have started using Incursors as a good take and hold an objective squad. What are people's thoughts on telling/reminding opponent's about the Haywire mine? (only effective if the unit is charged). Do you tell your oppenent at the beginning of the game? Assume since he looked at your roster he will remember that unit has one, or remind if he looks to charge them etc?
Umm... shouldn't it be obvious if the squad has a Hawywire mine? I mean, there's literally a model holding it.


I see your point regarding this single example, but it's a non-factor for me. There are many other pieces of wargear in the game that are not even close to this obvious.
I am not convinced all players will look close enough/recognize that piece of wargear on a single incursor on the table. On my tables it's a rare used unit, and the mine even rarer. Plus, I try to play WYSIWYG but in my experience most players hedge it often. I would never blame another player for not having it modeled on/in the unit, perhaps because they are using regular primaris as stand ins, or better, converted their own Incursors to fit their army theme.

I do not use Incursor models for my incursors. I inherited a bunch of infiltrators (snap-fit) from a friend, and converted them to have sleeveless arms and Mongol style accessories. I actually have my haywire mine on a separate base with the unit because in the previous edition it was placed on the battlefield.

Keeping the hobby side alive!

I never forget the Dakka unit scale is binary: Units are either OP or Garbage. 
   
Made in us
Blood Angel Neophyte Undergoing Surgeries




I picked up the hobby again at beginning of covid as a way to occupy free time so my experience is limited to playing weekly with a couple friends who I coaxed into it with me.

Typically we always share out lists a day or two ahead of time for both players to review and to make sure each list has some play against the other to avoid unfun blow outs. Before each game, we do a rundown of the the armies again highlighting things like "chapter traits", interesting special abilities or relevant strategems for a unit, and any warlord traits and relics as a reminder. Over the course of the game, we typically do offer reminders like "hey, those guys have haywire" or "I can spend a CP to give that vehicle, a 4++ if you shoot it." If someone, asks for a reminder about what something is, what weapons, etc, answers are provided to that question.

However, I do think if I was going to play a competitve tournament where the goal is to win, my expectations would adjust about how much "handholding" or friendly reminders I'm owed by my opponent. From my perspective, being really good at 40k is as much about knowing what your opponent's army can do to you as much as knowing what yours can do to theirs. I would still expect to be provided a list overview pregrame, I would still expect them to offer straightforward answers to my questions, I would still expect them hold to agreements over intent like "if I place my Guardsmen here, he'll still be outside your heroic intervention range, agreed?", but I won't necessarily feel due a reminder like "If you deepstrike your Sanguinary Guard there, I can Auspex scan them with that unit of 5 eradicators."

That last example is a real one from my last social game actually, and I lost the entire Sang Guard squad which really sucked, but as a someone who also plays a space marine army, I probably should have known better.

I guess my point is any kind of game or sport where there are differing levels of competitiveness make trades to some degree on what the norm for good sportsmanship is as you ascend the ladder. As I move up the competitive ladder, I expect the guard rails that helped to keep me from making mistakes or being disadvantaged to be removed, but that added challenge is what makes the experience gratifying when I succeed.

I think it's important to remember that people's mindset about how the game is meant to be played isn't a single setting and can adjust based on competitive context. Obviously you are better placed to judge in this case, but that person who failed to remind you about what turned out to be an inconsequential relic on his HQ may have a different approach to social games. I believe a lot of issues like this can simply be addressed by a quick non-confrontational conversation about both player's expectations about how to play the game prior to deployment.
   
Made in ca
Jinking Ravenwing Land Speeder Pilot



Canada

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
edwardmyst wrote:
So, for example, recently I have started using Incursors as a good take and hold an objective squad. What are people's thoughts on telling/reminding opponent's about the Haywire mine? (only effective if the unit is charged). Do you tell your oppenent at the beginning of the game? Assume since he looked at your roster he will remember that unit has one, or remind if he looks to charge them etc?
Umm... shouldn't it be obvious if the squad has a Hawywire mine? I mean, there's literally a model holding it.


Yes, there is a model for it but how many people know what it does? I think its worth explaining since it is something that is activated in the opponent's Charge Phase and could catch someone completely off guard - there are not many weapons that do that in the game. I guess that could be fun for some, but it could also be seen as a "gotcha."

All you have to do is fire three rounds a minute, and stand 
   
Made in nl
Jovial Plaguebearer of Nurgle





We always go over our lists before games here, but I can understand this is not feasible in a time-limited setting like a tournament or scheduled shop game. But things like warlord traits, relics, potential CP upgrades should probably be provided and explained upon if asked always.
Asking someone what is this model and for him to hide the fact he had a relic is just poor sportsmanship, hoping you can pull a fast one.
Now as mentioned we tend to explain our lists thoroughly here because we have the time for it and because at this point most of us are familiar with each others armies so it doesn't take a long time. Whenever someone get a new codex/rules supplement he also tends to explain any new "surprise" strats he can pop to prevent Gotcha's.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




NE Ohio, USA

Amongst my regular circle we don't make any effort to share lists, tell each other about gear/upgrades etc. Never have. Our weapons are WYSIWYG, it's all written down & verifiable, & we'll tell the other person what faction within an army we're playing (Blood angels, Goffs, Mephrit, etc). And we'll point out what things are if your not familiar with the model/it's converted/scratch-built.
Of course were someone to ask about some non-obvious detail they'd get an honest answer.
We may or may not remind each other of things during play - "remember that unit has a haywire bomb".

If your not in this circle then I'll share the list & offer you as much info as you desire & expect the same cooperation.
I will not remind you of stuff during play & don't expect you to remind me.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/10 02:59:17


 
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

edwardmyst wrote:
I do not use Incursor models for my incursors.
Then this seems more like a "you" problem than a "hidden gear" problem.

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in dk
Pyro Pilot of a Triach Stalker






 Daedalus81 wrote:
This thread reminds me....what edition was it that you didn't have to reveal wargear until it was used? Or was that Fantasy?

WHFB, you could walk into a unit with a character, find out the unit has flaming attacks, reveal you were prepared with a 2++ against flaming attacks. Mostly it was just a question of how many pts were spent on offence vs defence or the character is naked. Magic items were unbalanced so it was often somewhat predictable. Hidden Assassins and Fanatics were worse. You could suss them out by estimating whether your opponent had all their pts on the table. I think it's too clunky, lists should not have to be kept secret.
   
Made in it
Gargantuan Gargant




Italy

The "gotcha" moment isn't a problem at all. You may be surprised one time, but the next game you'll have learned the lesson.

I'd rather suffer that moment myself, than spending 30min just to ask in detail every single stuff from the opponent's list that I'm not familiar with.

Against armies/models I don't know at all I just ask which model/unit is which and a quick look at their datasheets to understand what kind of profiles they have and their purpose/role in the list. Just that.

Full detailed lists must be provided in every game though, including casual friendly ones, that's an unwritten rule that was in play since I started the hobby in late 90s and always have been in play.


 
   
Made in dk
Pyro Pilot of a Triach Stalker






 Blackie wrote:
The "gotcha" moment isn't a problem at all. You may be surprised one time, but the next game you'll have learned the lesson.

I'd rather suffer that moment myself, than spending 30min just to ask in detail every single stuff from the opponent's list that I'm not familiar with.

Against armies/models I don't know at all I just ask which model/unit is which and a quick look at their datasheets to understand what kind of profiles they have and their purpose/role in the list. Just that.

Full detailed lists must be provided in every game though, including casual friendly ones, that's an unwritten rule that was in play since I started the hobby in late 90s and always have been in play.

Being served a raw piece of chicken at a restaurant isn't a problem at all. You may be surprised one time, but the next time you can order something else.

Never mind the ruined dinner experience or the stomach issues. /s I would rather wait 30 extra minutes than be served raw chicken.

Ideally, restaurants prepare food to the desired doneness as fast as possible and GW minimizes gotchas.

The game used to have so few gotchas that warnings weren't required, it's different now.
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






yukishiro1 wrote:
Every time you play someone you should start with: "Are you familiar with how my army works?"

If they say "yes," you can leave it at that, it's on them. If they say "no," explain the general contours of how stuff works, especially anything that differs from the normal rules of the game.

If someone asks what a unit is, you should absolutely tell them not only the name but also any particularly relevant wargear.

Your opponent not telling you a model had a relic when you specifically asked what the model was - especially when he told you the normal gun it had - is bad sportsmanship pure and simple, and he should be ashamed of himself. There is no possible justification for hiding that a model has an artifact.


This. When playing a game I always give my opponent a run-down on all additional options I bought for my units, especially relics, warlord traits and upgrade stratagems, as those aren't covered by WYSIWYG.
I'm not going in detail unless my opponent asks me to, but at the very least I tell them that I bought a relic for the unit.

When you ask about a unit and the don't tell you that they have the relic, that is on the same level as lying about whether one of the primaris units is equipped with their assault/rapid fire/heavy variant of their gun.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/10 11:57:44


Earth is not flat
Vaccines work
We've been to the moon
Climate change is real
Chemtrails aren't a thing
Evolution is a fact
Orks are not a melee army
Stand up for science!
 
   
Made in gb
Lit By the Flames of Prospero






I've never really had this problem before even at tournaments, although they were hosted by the local GW so hardly WAAC competitive environment. I just play WYSIWYG for all my games anyway and the only time things aren't physically represented is if it's something like Artificer Armour in 30k on a unit leader which I've never seen unused and TBH I think everyone just assumes you'll take it. I've found "gotcha" moments have been where people have a solid misunderstanding of rules, make what they think is a game-winning combo/move then have it shattered when someone who reads the rules tells them they've made a mistake.
   
Made in nl
Regular Dakkanaut






To people with lots of free time it might not matter too much when such moments ruin a game because they get to play lots of them. But others, me included, rarely get to play and would count themselves lucky to play against a specific unit more than once. In such cases, there is no real learning moment and only annoyance because it basically ruined one of the few gaming opportunities

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




I wouldn't want people to have a bad experience - but equally there can be a danger that a more experienced player effectively ends up playing both lists. "Remember I can do this" can turn into "you should move there not there, and shoot X rather than Y" etc.

But yeah, I think the opening run down of your army is good practice. Really though I don't think there are that many list-based gotchas in 40k. A game shouldn't really come down to a haywire mine. Things like Auspex Scan were more common - and there again you sort of have a line. I guess its good sportsmanship to ask if they are sure but it should still sort of be their choice to live with.
   
Made in it
Gargantuan Gargant




Italy

 vict0988 wrote:
 Blackie wrote:
The "gotcha" moment isn't a problem at all. You may be surprised one time, but the next game you'll have learned the lesson.

I'd rather suffer that moment myself, than spending 30min just to ask in detail every single stuff from the opponent's list that I'm not familiar with.

Against armies/models I don't know at all I just ask which model/unit is which and a quick look at their datasheets to understand what kind of profiles they have and their purpose/role in the list. Just that.

Full detailed lists must be provided in every game though, including casual friendly ones, that's an unwritten rule that was in play since I started the hobby in late 90s and always have been in play.

Being served a raw piece of chicken at a restaurant isn't a problem at all. You may be surprised one time, but the next time you can order something else.

Never mind the ruined dinner experience or the stomach issues. /s I would rather wait 30 extra minutes than be served raw chicken.

Ideally, restaurants prepare food to the desired doneness as fast as possible and GW minimizes gotchas.

The game used to have so few gotchas that warnings weren't required, it's different now.


What a terrible comparison. If raw piece of chicken is not what I ordered, I can't get it unless someone made a mistake or even a fraud.

It's like saying that two players agreed on playing a 40k game and then one of them starts using AOS rules, or an old edition of 40k ruleset. I'm expecting a 40k game, not to be familiar with any possible combinations the game can have, so being surprised by a unit/combo I didn't know it really shouldn't be a problem and at the same time I can't expect my opponent to be prepared to anything I can use with my codex as well unless he really knows very well my army, nor I want to discuss for too long about what my tactics involve. Just provide a full detailed list of your army, answer about my questions during the game (for example what's the thoughness and how many wounds and layers of saves that models have, etc..) and you're fine.

In fact I think that surprising the opponent (without cheating) should be an healthy part of a game.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Tyel wrote:
I wouldn't want people to have a bad experience - but equally there can be a danger that a more experienced player effectively ends up playing both lists. "Remember I can do this" can turn into "you should move there not there, and shoot X rather than Y" etc.



Yeah, this. Make your mistakes, learn about other armies the hard way and you'll get a better player.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/04/10 13:33:25



 
   
Made in nl
Jovial Plaguebearer of Nurgle





I guess we just have to disagree then, I do not like the kind of surprises that (mainly) stratagems added to the game. Especially because they can't be glanced from looking at Datasheets. While I'm technically learning from having my terminators obliterated by Auspex scans i'm unsure how it makes me a better player other than: don't DS so close to them if they have CP left. Which I could have easily learned by just knowing it existed before it gets used against me.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Central California

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
edwardmyst wrote:
I do not use Incursor models for my incursors.
Then this seems more like a "you" problem than a "hidden gear" problem.


You never convert models? You play only "official" GW models as exactly what they are?

I almost never feed arguments on the internet, but my line of work and personality gets very frustrated with people who talk about a "tree" rather than the "forest" that is the subject of a conversation.
My original post clearly explained the real reason I am asking the question. Something pretty much everyone else who has posted here looked at, recognized and responded to. The Incursor Haywire was an example of many I could have chosen from. Hiding the relic even when asked was the catalyst. Seems strange to turn a simple question on people's opinions into an attack by simplifying and partial quoting (and please, no one is fooled by the "I was only pointing it out" argument). Sure, my table may play differently than yours. What's the point of doing this? Why even waste the nano-seconds on posting this?

Keeping the hobby side alive!

I never forget the Dakka unit scale is binary: Units are either OP or Garbage. 
   
Made in ca
Jinking Ravenwing Land Speeder Pilot



Canada

I am not a fan of a stream of "helpful" advice from one player to another during the game, but in groups that I play it is considered poor form to surprise an opponent with a piece of wargear or Stratagem that changes/ignores something important in the game.

If two players enjoy deliberately doing that to each other then, by all means, they should continue to enjoy playing that way. They just might find after a while that their group consists of those two players.

All you have to do is fire three rounds a minute, and stand 
   
Made in dk
Pyro Pilot of a Triach Stalker






If your plan amounts to "place my shooty unit in a position where it can get charged from DS and hope my opponent is uneducated" then that's a bad plan, unless of course you deliberately find uneducated players to use your plan on, in that case, sign-ups for the devil club are on floor 666.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Tyel wrote:
I wouldn't want people to have a bad experience - but equally there can be a danger that a more experienced player effectively ends up playing both lists. "Remember I can do this" can turn into "you should move there not there, and shoot X rather than Y" etc.


It can, but there's no reason it has to.

This is actually why it makes so much sense to play by intent and to announce that intent. That way it's clear what each player is intending to do, and if what they are actually doing isn't going to accomplish it, the other player can point it out.

I.e. "These guys are going to come out from behind this ruin and shoot your X." "Did you know / remember I have a strat that allows me to make that unit untargetable unless it's the closest unit?" "Oh crap no, in that case I'll have to reconsider where to move them, one sec, sorry." <--Game ultimately improved for both players, and no need to undo the board state because you're talking through it as you do it.

   
 
Forum Index » 40K General Discussion
Go to: