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​Alright y'all. Survey time:

What else can we do that would incentivize you to order?

I'm asking this because we as of now have had several sales and all of them have ended below sales expectations. And the current ogre sale is looking to be no exception.

Obviously value army bundles and flash sales on certain products are not working.

I AM NOT ATTEMPTING TO PLACE BLAME - to clarify. I am simply finding current efforts to generate sales are ending in lackluster results, and want to solicit the community for input.

TIPS appreciates your time and consideration

main news thread: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/210/793569.page

Show more than one photo per product and make several of them printed examples. Ideally a clean printed (or undercoated) and a painted to decent standard.

Showing actual prints is far more likely to generate interest and sales than just STL renders. Renders are ambiguous. You can't visualise scale; you can't envision the final product detail and they are typically uncoloured and thus don't spark the imagination.


In the end the dream you are selling people with your marketing isn't STLs, its models. Show them the dream; the printed and painted model. that they will have after buying your product.

I was looking at your store last night and the thing that stopped me from ordering is a lot of the stuff you offer is very... specialized?

I don't much like the fully armored ogres or the landsneckt ogres, but if they were more like the classic GW chaos ogres (sans chaos) I'd have made some purchases right there.

The "fantasy races with historical twists" section has similar "issues" (if you can call them that) for me. I am interested in the hawk rider but the English elves and Turkic-Mongol don't appeal. Although if I ever wanted to make a Dwemer-based army (from Elder Scrolls), you've got the minis I need.

I am very strongly considering buying some of the skeletons and related at some point in the future, but there's a few more projects I have to get to before I get to that point.

Thank you both for responding.

Overread wrote:Show more than one photo per product and make several of them printed examples. Ideally a clean printed (or undercoated) and a painted to decent standard.

Showing actual prints is far more likely to generate interest and sales than just STL renders. Renders are ambiguous. You can't visualise scale; you can't envision the final product detail and they are typically uncoloured and thus don't spark the imagination.


In the end the dream you are selling people with your marketing isn't STLs, its models. Show them the dream; the printed and painted model. that they will have after buying your product.

That makes sense, and is something we are trying to work on. slowly but surely at the moment though

Rihgu wrote:I was looking at your store last night and the thing that stopped me from ordering is a lot of the stuff you offer is very... specialized?

I don't much like the fully armored ogres or the landsneckt ogres, but if they were more like the classic GW chaos ogres (sans chaos) I'd have made some purchases right there.

The "fantasy races with historical twists" section has similar "issues" (if you can call them that) for me. I am interested in the hawk rider but the English elves and Turkic-Mongol don't appeal. Although if I ever wanted to make a Dwemer-based army (from Elder Scrolls), you've got the minis I need.

I am very strongly considering buying some of the skeletons and related at some point in the future, but there's a few more projects I have to get to before I get to that point.

Have you seen the caballero miniatures elves? there are variants that have tall elf helms that are more generic. I agree most of them have a flavor though.



https://two-idiots-printing-service.myshopify.com/products/caballero-miniatures-dread-elf-conical-helm-legionaries?_pos=9&_sid=eb890dfea&_ss=r

That actually brings to mind a second "issue", is I found it hard to find things on the site! This didn't come up until I had made the post and looked again, and indeed I found the Caballeros elves, which I do like. I had previously looked under the Caballeros heading, saw they had El Cid era Spanish, thought to myself "yep, that makes sense!" and moved on.

I'm wondering if you couldn't have some more forward facing system of filtering through models without necessarily using the search system? If I want to see all elf models you offer, I get different results whether I search for "elf" and "elves".
Would be nice if I could click a button that says "elves" and see all the elves you have to offer, etc.

edit: I just clicked under the Holy Roman Empire Humans heading and was surprised to find Ogres, Griffons, and battlemages. My expectation clicking there was to see purely historical miniatures! I see in hindsight what's happening there, though

Rihgu wrote:
That actually brings to mind a second "issue", is I found it hard to find things on the site! This didn't come up until I had made the post and looked again, and indeed I found the Caballeros elves, which I do like. I had previously looked under the Caballeros heading, saw they had El Cid era Spanish, thought to myself "yep, that makes sense!" and moved on.

I'm wondering if you couldn't have some more forward facing system of filtering through models without necessarily using the search system? If I want to see all elf models you offer, I get different results whether I search for "elf" and "elves".
Would be nice if I could click a button that says "elves" and see all the elves you have to offer, etc.

edit: I just clicked under the Holy Roman Empire Humans heading and was surprised to find Ogres, Griffons, and battlemages. My expectation clicking there was to see purely historical miniatures! I see in hindsight that's happening there, though

Actually, yes there is. I can go in and tag things to come up as "elf" and "elves"

Which, while laborious when going through 300 odd listings, I can do in a night.

I'm going to commit to you right now that elves will be done tonight, and separate tags for other potential identifiers will be done over the coming week.

OK. So for the entire existance of that thread, I thought it said Two Idiots Painting Service and never clicked on it because I don't need anything painted.

Mind you, I don't need anything printed, either, so good luck.

But I'd put "3D" in the title somewhere to catch idiots like me.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
OK. So for the entire existance of that thread, I thought it said Two Idiots Painting Service and never clicked on it because I don't need anything painted.

Mind you, I don't need anything printed, either, so good luck.

But I'd put "3D" in the title somewhere to catch idiots like me.

Doing that now. Good point, thank you

One thing I would like to see...

A scale shot with the minis next to a standard GW model.

Like the Armored Ogres, perhaps a sample you printed next to a GW ogre, or if you dont own one, a recognized GW infantry model. Just to show that if you buy an Ogre (or knight, or cannon, etc) you can use it for that purpose.

More examples of your printed minis in the gallery of the item,. so you list a mini, and show the render, also have an example of how your printed ones look.

also, maybe offer an upcharge to have the minis cleaned of the supports? maybe even preassembled? The knights i bought from you guys were great, but if there was an option for them to come free of the supports (at a reasonable fee) i probably would have gone that route.

 Smokestack wrote:
One thing I would like to see...

A scale shot with the minis next to a standard GW model.

Like the Armored Ogres, perhaps a sample you printed next to a GW ogre, or if you dont own one, a recognized GW infantry model. Just to show that if you buy an Ogre (or knight, or cannon, etc) you can use it for that purpose.

More examples of your printed minis in the gallery of the item,. so you list a mini, and show the render, also have an example of how your printed ones look.

also, maybe offer an upcharge to have the minis cleaned of the supports? maybe even preassembled? The knights i bought from you guys were great, but if there was an option for them to come free of the supports (at a reasonable fee) i probably would have gone that route.

We have been actually discussing the desupporting fee behind the scenes. We may have it up in time for the end of the sale. Would probably be bracketed at sub $25, $25-100, and then above $100 for different/slightly larger amounts

I looked at the link you provided in the OP.

Someone there was surprised to see you selling 9 Ogres for 30 bucks ( whatever).

I thought I was going blind because I didn't see any Ogres.

I scrolled up, scrolled down, went back a few pages, etc...

Then I saw them, the Ogres dressed as
boring medieval men with guns and weapons. I couldn't even tell they were ogres, even while looking right at them...

The model line you have is rather uninspiring.

When I see 200 different 3D producers making fantasy models every month, something has to stand out to catch my eye.

Ogres dressing in the same clothing that GamesWorkshop Empire peasants were wearing in the 1990's isn't something I want.

Also, the stock blue backgrounds scream amateur. My eyes immediately zone past those pictures.

- edit -

When I see a new line advertising Ogres, I expect to see warty looking, misshaping giants throwing goats around and wielding tree trunks as weapon, fyi.

 BuFFo wrote:
I looked at the link you provided in the OP.

Someone there was surprised to see you selling 9 Ogres for 30 bucks ( whatever).

I thought I was going blind because I didn't see any Ogres.

I scrolled up, scrolled down, went back a few pages, etc...

Then I saw them, the Ogres dressed as
boring medieval men with guns and weapons. I couldn't even tell they were ogres, even while looking right at them...

The model line you have is rather uninspiring.

When I see 200 different 3D producers making fantasy models every month, something has to stand out to catch my eye.

Ogres dressing in the same clothing that GamesWorkshop Empire peasants were wearing in the 1990's isn't something I want.

Also, the stock blue backgrounds scream amateur. My eyes immediately zone past those pictures.

- edit -

When I see a new line advertising Ogres, I expect to see warty looking, misshaping giants throwing goats around and wielding tree trunks as weapon, fyi.

Thank you for your frank assessment.

 BuFFo wrote:
I looked at the link you provided in the OP.

Someone there was surprised to see you selling 9 Ogres for 30 bucks ( whatever).

I thought I was going blind because I didn't see any Ogres.

I scrolled up, scrolled down, went back a few pages, etc...

Then I saw them, the Ogres dressed as
boring medieval men with guns and weapons. I couldn't even tell they were ogres, even while looking right at them...

The model line you have is rather uninspiring.

Ogres dressing in the same clothing that GamesWorkshop Empire peasants were wearing in the 1990's isn't something I want.


When I see a new line advertising Ogres, I expect to see warty looking, misshaping giants throwing goats around and wielding tree trunks as weapon, fyi.

Its obviously a personal choice... but I think the armored Ogres are pretty cool, and more unique that the barbarian ogres, or mongol horde ogres. Though I do own the GW Ogres., So i guess I like them at least a little. Another company just had a poll contest and landskehct ogres won, so presumably at least some like the ascetic. But its all opinion anyway, so i cant say you are wrong... just TIPS should have some market for this. From my personal opinion, the armed ogres are pretty cool, and I will have them in my collection...

Wait why are 3D printed models coming on supports? The supports should be coming off after the first wash cycle.

Print
Wash in IPA
Remove supports
Rinse model in separate IPA (helps clean it further and if it gets cloudy you know your wash IPA needs replacing)
Cure
Pack and ship.


If you ship them with supports that means the clean up is going to be a lot tougher on your customers and increases the chance of damage to the models.




As for scale what might be easier is when you produce the renders for your screenshots, include a scale next to the model. There's plenty of built in scale or 3D scale images out there that you can use. This has the advantage that you're not showing scale by displaying copyright/trademarked models with every photo. IT keeps people focused on your product.
Coupled with real photos which give context to size and scale on their own (even without another model to compare too).

If you do want a comparison model make it something generic that's also unique to your store.

 Overread wrote:
Wait why are 3D printed models coming on supports? The supports should be coming off after the first wash cycle.

Print
Wash in IPA
Remove supports
Rinse model in separate IPA (helps clean it further and if it gets cloudy you know your wash IPA needs replacing)
Pack and ship.


If you ship them with supports that means the clean up is going to be a lot tougher on your customers and increases the chance of damage to the models.




As for scale what might be easier is when you produce the renders for your screenshots, include a scale next to the model. There's plenty of built in scale or 3D scale images out there that you can use. This has the advantage that you're not showing scale by displaying copyright/trademarked models with every photo. IT keeps people focused on your product.
Coupled with real photos which give context to size and scale on their own (even without another model to compare too).

If you do want a comparison model make it something generic that's also unique to your store.

We've had issues with delicate models breaking in shipment, and having more loss due to our free reprint policy.

So we asked one of the affected customers if we could ship with supports on. We did, everything arrived safe and unbroken, and things became a matter of course.

We include a safety document for resin miniatures, assuming customers have never worked with resin before. We also include information on how to de-support the miniatures.

Although the models are washed and cured and some supports removed before we ship, we do put a pair of nitrile gloves in every package now as well. just for extra safety.

A few thoughts on that

1) You shouldn't need to include Nitrile gloves in every pack. Washed and Cured models should be as safe as regular resin models to work with. The only time they might not be is if they were hollowed - even then the internals should be fully cured before shipping.
Wet resin should be something your customers never encounter

2) If parts are getting broken I can see justification in leaving supports on, but at the same time other model lines manage to ship delicate parts without breakages. It might be that instead of leaving supports and risking customers causing damage, you might consider adjusting your packaging system to better protect models.

You may also have to just remove some from your inventory if they are too fragile; or consider changing your working resin to one that's a bit more durable. I know many will sometimes mix higher cost more durable resins with their regular resin. A 20% addition of a tougher resin can improve the performance whlist meaning that 1 bottle of the tough does 5 regular bottles mixed in.

 Overread wrote:
A few thoughts on that

1) You shouldn't need to include Nitrile gloves in every pack. Washed and Cured models should be as safe as regular resin models to work with. The only time they might not be is if they were hollowed - even then the internals should be fully cured before shipping.
Wet resin should be something your customers never encounter

2) If parts are getting broken I can see justification in leaving supports on, but at the same time other model lines manage to ship delicate parts without breakages. It might be that instead of leaving supports and risking customers causing damage, you might consider adjusting your packaging system to better protect models.

You may also have to just remove some from your inventory if they are too fragile; or consider changing your working resin to one that's a bit more durable. I know many will sometimes mix higher cost more durable resins with their regular resin. A 20% addition of a tougher resin can improve the performance whlist meaning that 1 bottle of the tough does 5 regular bottles mixed in.

1. We do anyway. They are inexpensive enough and might as well.

2. We are testing different packaging, and may change things entirely if we find something that works extremely well.

3. We've experimented with flex resin to mixed results. any variants you would recommend?

I've only used Aqua 4K resin and I don't have to transport stuff in packages so its not something I've really looked into much.

I know that adding 20% Siraya Tech Tenacious is a popular option for giving a stronger result.

 Overread wrote:
I've only used Aqua 4K resin and I don't have to transport stuff in packages so its not something I've really looked into much.

I know that adding 20% Siraya Tech Tenacious is a popular option for giving a stronger result.

Thanks for the suggestion. We'll take it under advisement as we look for options.

1. Take advantage of a new technology. 3D printing can offer *custom* miniatures that conventional steel-injection molding cannot. Steal an idea from HeroForge, that you can make custom miniatures for RPG'ers who want miniatures of "their character" that they can't find elsewhere.

2. Pair up with .stl creators, including KS .stl campaigns. That way, another party will also do the advertising.

3. Find a popular demand and fill it. Frex, Frostgrave and Rangers of Shadowdeep have scenarios that specify which miniatures to use. Gloomhaven has standees and 2D terrain, but many boardgamers want miniatures, including 3D terrain, for the game. Go find out popular games that do not offer their own miniature line and make miniatures for them. 3D print companies are already doing this for Gloomhaven terrain.

4. Diversify outside of miniatures. You can also use your service to make 3D printed parts for repair work, for example.

Stop thinking like a miniature company, which has to used fixed sculptures and minimum mold print runs for gaming. Start thinking like a service, that can make custom parts for any number of plastic uses.

 ced1106 wrote:
1. Take advantage of a new technology. 3D printing can offer *custom* miniatures that conventional steel-injection molding cannot. Steal an idea from HeroForge, that you can make custom miniatures for RPG'ers who want miniatures of "their character" that they can't find elsewhere.

2. Pair up with .stl creators, including KS .stl campaigns. That way, another party will also do the advertising.

3. Find a popular demand and fill it. Frex, Frostgrave and Rangers of Shadowdeep have scenarios that specify which miniatures to use. Gloomhaven has standees and 2D terrain, but many boardgamers want miniatures, including 3D terrain, for the game. Go find out popular games that do not offer their own miniature line and make miniatures for them. 3D print companies are already doing this for Gloomhaven terrain.

4. Diversify outside of miniatures. You can also use your service to make 3D printed parts for repair work, for example.

Stop thinking like a miniature company, which has to used fixed sculptures and minimum mold print runs for gaming. Start thinking like a service, that can make custom parts for any number of plastic uses.

We already offer custom printing. We can do a bunch of things with our current offerings and if someone has an STL they want printed we can get them a quote.

2. We already are? We hold licenses to print a variety of creators product lines.

3.understandable.

4. We currently offer a variety of flight simulator parts and a specialized part for the atmoblue filter mask. I admit we could most likely find other things in this vector.

Sorry in advance: you're probably not going to like my comments much.

Spend some time and money to make yourselves look more professional, and make it easy for me to buy.

As I and others have said before here and in your main thread, photos, photos, photos. As delivered, cleaned up, painted. On second thoughts, not as delivered. You've explained the support issue around fragile pieces, but it puts me off: it's fragile, & *I* have to clean it up to... and ask you for a postage quote... cba.....next....

Indexing... I looked at scifi miniatures.. clicked on big mrtong miniatures, was uninspired. clicked back on scifi miniatures itself, and found 15th century european dwarves, armies of the sands (DID like the tittle miniature) army deals, bases... again.. too much effort .. went back into the sansds minatures.. oh.. ok.. somebody else's sculpts, but nice... clikced on skeletons with bows... started muttering again.. the zoom DOES enlarge, but not much... clicked on the 4 figure render (why the heck is one of them bright green) but... only one HAS a bow.... gives up.

stroller wrote:
Sorry in advance: you're probably not going to like my comments much.

Spend some time and money to make yourselves look more professional, and make it easy for me to buy.

As I and others have said before here and in your main thread, photos, photos, photos. As delivered, cleaned up, painted. On second thoughts, not as delivered. You've explained the support issue around fragile pieces, but it puts me off: it's fragile, & *I* have to clean it up to... and ask you for a postage quote... cba.....next....

Indexing... I looked at scifi miniatures.. clicked on big mrtong miniatures, was uninspired. clicked back on scifi miniatures itself, and found 15th century european dwarves, armies of the sands (DID like the tittle miniature) army deals, bases... again.. too much effort .. went back into the sansds minatures.. oh.. ok.. somebody else's sculpts, but nice... clikced on skeletons with bows... started muttering again.. the zoom DOES enlarge, but not much... clicked on the 4 figure render (why the heck is one of them bright green) but... only one HAS a bow.... gives up.

In that particular range, I used a bright green heavy infantryman from another line as a scale example. He's scaled to 28mm. The rest of the stuff he is against is terrain or heroic 28/32mm.

This reinforces my point. A paragraph telling me what I'm looking at would have answered my question before I'd asked it. If you put up a pic of models from two different scales, I want to know that, and I want to know which scales.

The more obstacles you put up to purchase, the less I'll be inclined to buy.

What I WANT to find is: WOW! Amazing mini! I want it... click here....easy...

stroller wrote:
This reinforces my point. A paragraph telling me what I'm looking at would have answered my question before I'd asked it. If you put up a pic of models from two different scales, I want to know that, and I want to know which scales.

The more obstacles you put up to purchase, the less I'll be inclined to buy.

What I WANT to find is: WOW! Amazing mini! I want it... click here....easy...

But I do that, in the product description on the website.

I notice that in Opera I can't click on the image ot make it larger, instead I have to right click and open the image in a new tab to view it larger; otherwise it just zooms on the tiny image window.

Indeed why are the images so small when viewing the model page? The big thing you want on the model page is a nice big picture at least 500-800 pixels in size.

 Overread wrote:
I notice that in Opera I can't click on the image ot make it larger, instead I have to right click and open the image in a new tab to view it larger; otherwise it just zooms on the tiny image window.

Indeed why are the images so small when viewing the model page? The big thing you want on the model page is a nice big picture at least 500-800 pixels in size.

That's a limitation of Shopify. Or at least the webstore themes ive tested.

As a web designer, I have quite a few issues with your website. Mainly it's how confusing and unfocussed everything feels. For example, I'm led to believe that you sell some sort of armoured Ogre model but unless I know that and use the search function I can't find them. Apparently they're part of the Peculiar Companions line but they're not in the drop-down menu under Fantasy Minis. The general lack of descriptions about miniature lines or individual minis contributes to an overall feeling of confusion. For example, I have no idea what the significance of the Peculiar Companions name is. Your homepage doesn't help as probably the most eye-catching things there are non-gaming related, which again leaves a customer a bit lost as to what your site offers.

The images of renders rather than actual models doesn't give me a good idea of what I'm ordering and the inability to properly enlarge those images just makes it worse. I'm not sure of scale or quality. You also seem to have a lot of listings that ask customers to add notes to their purchase to tell you what extra bits they do or don't want. It's all coming across as more work than I want to do to buy some models, and adds to the overall feeling of this being a little amateurish.

Sorry to sound harsh, but I think you really need to look at how you present your products. At the moment I don't really get a feeling of confidence that this is a solid, reputable company who will deliver what they promise. I'm not saying you actually are untrustworthy, just saying your website doesn't paint your business in the best light.

Slipspace wrote:
As a web designer, I have quite a few issues with your website. Mainly it's how confusing and unfocussed everything feels. For example, I'm led to believe that you sell some sort of armoured Ogre model but unless I know that and use the search function I can't find them. Apparently they're part of the Peculiar Companions line but they're not in the drop-down menu under Fantasy Minis. The general lack of descriptions about miniature lines or individual minis contributes to an overall feeling of confusion. For example, I have no idea what the significance of the Peculiar Companions name is. Your homepage doesn't help as probably the most eye-catching things there are non-gaming related, which again leaves a customer a bit lost as to what your site offers.

The images of renders rather than actual models doesn't give me a good idea of what I'm ordering and the inability to properly enlarge those images just makes it worse. I'm not sure of scale or quality. You also seem to have a lot of listings that ask customers to add notes to their purchase to tell you what extra bits they do or don't want. It's all coming across as more work than I want to do to buy some models, and adds to the overall feeling of this being a little amateurish.

Sorry to sound harsh, but I think you really need to look at how you present your products. At the moment I don't really get a feeling of confidence that this is a solid, reputable company who will deliver what they promise. I'm not saying you actually are untrustworthy, just saying your website doesn't paint your business in the best light.

We are using Shopify as a back end. We are currently limited on options as far as website design goes.

The ogres are part of the peculiar companions imperial German line, because they were part of that Kickstarter and have that asthetic.

We are always happy to help customers get what they need, and every time we post a link it's directly to the associated product page if at all possible.

I'm not saying the website should not be updated. I do think there is some work that could definitely be done.

Sorry this continues in a negative fashion, but...

"But I do that, in the product description on the website."

..no, you don't. This from the blurb on skelly bowmen:

"This listing is for licensed prints of the Skeleton warriors from Txarli factory's armies of the sands kickstarter. This listing is for skeleton warriors wielding bows

No bases are included. Scenic bases are available printed in resin as packs. Models are printed in high quality resin.

FOR EVERY 20 MINIATURES, 3 of those figures will be a command group. If you do not want command, please state as such in your order notes or send us an email.

Models printed and sold under license from Txarli Factory"

No scale unless I'm being REALLY dumb (possible). No bases... that word "no" again... give me a link to add a bases pack right there and then.

OK I accept that the option of NOT having command figures is a good one, but you phrase it as something else for ME to do...