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Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





Beaverton OR


Hey folks,

This is probably a bit of an old topic, but I've been thinking about it a bit lately and I thought I'd see how the community weighs in on it.

Does the Emperor himself ACTUALLY protect/care-about the Sisters of Battle?

I mean, on the one hand: they do get to do all their cool miracle stuff, and they constantly talk about it... but on the other hand there is definitely a case to be made that they are all doing some kind of psychic gestalt thing and that their "faith" and "miracles" and whatnot are really just psychic manifestations of that. There are also other interpretations, like other entities ect playing a role...

What do you guys think?
   
Made in gb
Lit By the Flames of Prospero






I think you need a good lashing for daring to suggest the God-Emperor doesn't protect the most holy Adeptas Sororitas.
But generally yes, I am of the persuasion that faith is not psychic powers but something else that is ultimately an unknowable quantity.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/04 17:03:21


 
   
Made in ca
Kroot Carnivore





From what I understand no; however the power of their faith is tangible. It's not the Emperor that gives them the power, it's the sheer strength of their belief itself.

My basis for this come from the novel Galaxy in Flames where one of the characters (sorry I forget their name) repels a deamon and shields her allies with her Imperial Aquilla and belief in the Lecticio Divinatus. She claims that "The Emperor Protects" however, at that point, the big E is still unaware of the goings on with Horus. His whole shtick back then was a fervent belief in the Imperial Truth, if he was supplying power somehow to those that deified him, it would go against everything he was trying to acomplish.

15000 4000 3500 2500 :tyranid: 2500 1000 1000
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Made in gb
Lit By the Flames of Prospero






That would be Euphrati Keeler, the first Saint of the Imperium.
It is very much the Emperor's fault that people started worshiping Him as a god. Giant golden figure surrounded by a halo of light, wielding a flaming sword and intense power all while His symbols repel Warpspawn. Hell, I'm not religious but if I saw that you best believe I'd start going to church.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/08/04 17:05:32


 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




 Gert wrote:
That would be Euphrati Keeler, the first Saint of the Imperium.
It is very much the Emperor's fault that people started worshiping Him as a god. Giant golden figure surrounded by a halo of light, wielding a flaming sword and intense power all while His symbols repel Warpspawn. Hell, I'm not religious but if I saw that you best believe I'd start going to church.


Exhibit (let n=x+1) in the case of "this Emperor chap really didn't think this all through, did he?"
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut




Of course actually protects them. Sisters of Battle are Daughters of the Emperor and they are more specifically, daddy perfect little girls and that's why Space Marines are jealous.
   
Made in gb
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






Well, whatever empowers the Sisters? We can categorically say it’s not Warpcraft, thanks to Paycheck Awakening: Pariah.

For those who haven’t read it (it’s actually quite enjoyable), the Pariah Nexus is the location, and it’s where the Necrons have established enough Blackstone Pylons to shut down The Warp. And it’s expressly noted by Szeras (the main architect of the Nexus) that it has no effect upon Sisters of Battle.

So what is it really? Buggered if I know, but it’s not psychic.

Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?

Pfizer vaccine administered 13:40pm 18 Feb 21. Still no second head. Second jab 13:35pm 6 May 2021. At the Masonic Hall. 
   
Made in at
Regular Dakkanaut




 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Well, whatever empowers the Sisters? We can categorically say it’s not Warpcraft, thanks to Paycheck Awakening: Pariah.

For those who haven’t read it (it’s actually quite enjoyable), the Pariah Nexus is the location, and it’s where the Necrons have established enough Blackstone Pylons to shut down The Warp. And it’s expressly noted by Szeras (the main architect of the Nexus) that it has no effect upon Sisters of Battle.

So what is it really? Buggered if I know, but it’s not psychic.


I think I’ve suggested it before, but my current theory is it’s similar but push instead of pull so to speak.

The warp is generated by emotion and thought which bleeds across from reality and can be pulled back as magic and other effects.

Extreme faith (and tbh emotion in general) is know to generate something specific in the warp, it’s deliberately used for effect by the Word Bearers and has historically been the explanation for acts of faith, saints, etc

The pylons block the connection that allows you to draw energy from the warp, but what if it blocks transfer the other way?

Perhaps the extra energy that would be generated by the faith is unable to bleed back to the warp and remains trapped in the materium by the pylons. Would potentially explain how they mitigate the draining effect on others.

Obviously pure speculation, but it sort of works
   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Well, whatever empowers the Sisters? We can categorically say it’s not Warpcraft, thanks to Paycheck Awakening: Pariah.

For those who haven’t read it (it’s actually quite enjoyable), the Pariah Nexus is the location, and it’s where the Necrons have established enough Blackstone Pylons to shut down The Warp. And it’s expressly noted by Szeras (the main architect of the Nexus) that it has no effect upon Sisters of Battle.

So what is it really? Buggered if I know, but it’s not psychic.


Actually the last moments of Cadia suggested the opposite, that Living Saints and the like are all psychic. When the pylons got activated and daemons started disappearing, the glowing halo of Celestine also dimmed. When the Eye surged and pylons started breaking, resulting in daemons appearing again, Celestine's aura blazed again. It wasn't the daemons that caused it, because the writing style was basically showing the two to be equivalent responses to the pylons.

In the Gate of Bones the Adeptus Custodes certainly view the acts of faith by the Sisters as a psychic effect, though as in-character opinions they can be wrong. In Godblight in an area supposedly shielded against psychic effects, Mathieu stays alive even though medical staff say he should not be alive infected as he was with so many diseases from Nurgle.

My headcanon now is that Acts of Faith and such are psychic effects, but they are a tier of power beyond the "usual" psychic effects and can bypass/pierce normal wards against psychic powers/wards. They can be actual direct interventions by a god, or self-generated effects.

The paradigm I am thinking of is from an old RPG supplement about gods called Primal Order by Nigel Findley. Basically there, faith was "primal energy" and similarly a higher form or tier of energy than magic. Higher tier energy goes through lower tier wards whereas lower tier energy cannot bypass higher tier wards. This paradigm was used to keep gods and divine minions threatening even for high level mortal player characters.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/08/04 21:07:19


 
   
Made in fr
Stalwart Tribune





 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Well, whatever empowers the Sisters? We can categorically say it’s not Warpcraft, thanks to Paycheck Awakening: Pariah.

For those who haven’t read it (it’s actually quite enjoyable), the Pariah Nexus is the location, and it’s where the Necrons have established enough Blackstone Pylons to shut down The Warp. And it’s expressly noted by Szeras (the main architect of the Nexus) that it has no effect upon Sisters of Battle.

So what is it really? Buggered if I know, but it’s not psychic.
Must be midichlorians.
   
Made in us
Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter




So if Grey Fax is an entirely neutral third party (Being locked away for a few years in stasis) the first thing she did when she saw the sisters was condemn them as blasphemous, and the Saint as a Warp Daemon.

Also, I don't want to sound crass, but most Astartes and all the living loyalist primarchs KNOW He is not a god. That leaves two distinct possibilities.

1. Sisters are manifesting Warp craft/Plot magic that is not tied to the emperor but is directly tied to them specifically.

OR

2. Emperor is something inbetween/beyond/insteadof a GOD. Lets give it a different name. Seeing as how the Emperor is singular in known existence, only closest match is MAYBE Malcador, but still. If he is singular, maybe call him something else. Warp Entity, or a Spirit. God tends to be "All powerful/all knowing". As in exists outside of and can alter space and time. Emperor is neither of those.

I say make a new title: He's a Tom Bombadil. He's a complete Deus Ex Machina that represents a beacon of good that serves no real purpose, but exists.
   
Made in gb
Executing Exarch






THE EMPEROR PROTECTS!!


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AngryAngel80 wrote:
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"A warrior does not seek fame and honour. They come to him as he humbly follows his path"  
   
Made in gb
Lit By the Flames of Prospero






I think "beacon of good" is a stretch. Anti-Warp? Sure. Good? No, not a chance.
   
Made in us
Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter




Is he MLK, no. Is he the Supreme Evil (tm)? Also no. The answer is somewhat more, GREY. I'd put his closest contemporary as an amalgamation of Tony Stark and Doctor Doom. Both are gifted with terrible knowledge, and are completely willing to use and throw away lives to further a single purpose that they deem worthy.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





Does the Emperor REALLY protect the Sisters of Battle?

Yes.
   
Made in us
Confessor Of Sins




Tacoma, WA, USA

The Sisters of Battle's Faith in the Emperor of Mankind protects them and empowers their miracles, large and small. Is it just pure faith or the actual Hand of the Emperor? Only the Emperor knows.

As for him being a God, only the Emperor knows. Based on Slaneesh, if he is then he always was and always will be just like Slaneesh was born and yet already existed. That is the way of the Warp.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




The way I see it, it's the gestalt belief of most of collective humanity being channeled.

In essence, it's the human equivalent of the orks' weapons and ships actually working when, by any measure, they're basically scrap tossed together that shouldn't function.

The Adepta Sororitas are able to tap into this field not to do anything overtly against the laws of physics--they just nudge probabilities. After all, the most holy servants in the Imperium are those who bring his holy light; it makes sense to the average Imperial citizen that they should be able to go beyond the norm.

Regardless, your average SoB is in no way psychic. They're attend the Schola Progenium like many, many Imperial Guard members, like commissars, elite troops, inquisitorial units, etc. There does seem to be any sort of of attempt to look for specific genetic markers for their recruitment. Funnily enough, by sheer law of averages, there should have been a handful of psyker sisters though none really come to mind.

Living Saints are probably some kind of warp entity though.
   
Made in gb
Ship's Officer





Bristol (UK)

Well we know emotions can have an effect on the warp, and enough of them can create warp-impression powerful enough that it has an effect back.
I think that's what's happening with the sisters.
   
Made in gb
Lit By the Flames of Prospero






There aren't any Psyker SoB for the same reason there aren't Psyker Commissars or Scions. When the children of the Schola reach a certain age they get picked out by an organisation with the Inquisition getting the first pick at which point they will identify any Psykers who will then be transported to either a Black Ships or taken as an Acolyte. IIRC the SoB gets the best girl candidates then the Commisariate and Scions get the rest.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





I'm in the camp that it is not the Emperor intervening, but rather the belief itself somehow manifests as protection.

With Faith still working in the Pariah Nexus, it seems that Faith doesn't behave the same way as psychic/warp abilities, for me this also rules out direct intervention by the Emperor, since that would be a psychic/warp thing in the same way as daemons etc are, especially given the dimming of Celestine's power on Cadia.

Combined with the fact that Keeler was somehow able to protect herself with her faith while the Emperor was still alive and kicking also rules out Faith being the Emperor's direct intervention for me.

I don't know what Faith is, but it doesn't appear to fit with what we expect of psychic abilities or direct intervention of a powerful psyker or warp deity.

Are there any stories about Acts of faith working in the presence or Sisters of Silence, or other nulls?


This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/05 13:22:40


 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




It's entirely possible that the saints are effectively imperial daemon princes (or analogues)
   
Made in us
Boosting Black Templar Biker






I'm also in the camp that the miracles/protection are being powered by pure faith and belief and is independent of the Emperor's actions.

Whether their faith is a warp manifestation or something else is another matter.

Similar topic, as I recall the Tau's belief in the greater good created a warp entity that shielded them during a transit once.
   
Made in gb
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






Well, we know from Necrons that The Warp/Empyrean is not in fact the only parallel dimension with which it’s possible to interact.

The best know? Sure. The easiest to access? Almost certainly. But far from the only.

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Pfizer vaccine administered 13:40pm 18 Feb 21. Still no second head. Second jab 13:35pm 6 May 2021. At the Masonic Hall. 
   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut




 The Red Hobbit wrote:
I'm also in the camp that the miracles/protection are being powered by pure faith and belief and is independent of the Emperor's actions.

Whether their faith is a warp manifestation or something else is another matter.

Similar topic, as I recall the Tau's belief in the greater good created a warp entity that shielded them during a transit once.


It was not the Tau. It was their auxiliaries, since the Tau themselves only have a very weak warp signature. It was implied that many of these auxiliaries were human since the appearance of the warp entity had human-like five fingered hands. The entity did not so much shield them as helped open a path and exit out of the warp as they were stranded within the warp.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/05 15:30:46


 
   
Made in gb
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






Do we have a sauce for that bit? Not one I’m familiar with and I want to know more!

Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?

Pfizer vaccine administered 13:40pm 18 Feb 21. Still no second head. Second jab 13:35pm 6 May 2021. At the Masonic Hall. 
   
Made in gb
Lit By the Flames of Prospero






War of Secrets by Phil Kelly.
   
Made in us
Boosting Black Templar Biker






Iracundus wrote:
 The Red Hobbit wrote:
I'm also in the camp that the miracles/protection are being powered by pure faith and belief and is independent of the Emperor's actions.

Whether their faith is a warp manifestation or something else is another matter.

Similar topic, as I recall the Tau's belief in the greater good created a warp entity that shielded them during a transit once.


It was not the Tau. It was their auxiliaries, since the Tau themselves only have a very weak warp signature. It was implied that many of these auxiliaries were human since the appearance of the warp entity had human-like five fingered hands. The entity did not so much shield them as helped open a path and exit out of the warp as they were stranded within the warp.

Thanks for clarifying!
   
Made in gb
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






 Gert wrote:
War of Secrets by Phil Kelly.


Guess I’ll be buying that at some point

Cheers for the ref.

Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?

Pfizer vaccine administered 13:40pm 18 Feb 21. Still no second head. Second jab 13:35pm 6 May 2021. At the Masonic Hall. 
   
Made in us
Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter




 Gert wrote:
There aren't any Psyker SoB for the same reason there aren't Psyker Commissars or Scions. When the children of the Schola reach a certain age they get picked out by an organisation with the Inquisition getting the first pick at which point they will identify any Psykers who will then be transported to either a Black Ships or taken as an Acolyte. IIRC the SoB gets the best girl candidates then the Commisariate and Scions get the rest.



You know, that sorta makes it sound like Female Commissars/Scions are "Not the best".

   
Made in gb
Lit By the Flames of Prospero






I'll be more specific. The SoB get to pick the best girl candidates that will suit their organisation. They look for fantacism, devotion and physical prowess. Non-fanatics don't get chosen and instead end up as Commissars (leadership skills) or Scions (good at taking orders).
   
 
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