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Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut




FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Spoiler:
So in the latest books, it is HEAVILY implied by both events in the book, and the Eldar Farseer, that while not originally a god, The Emperor has "become" a god through the Imperial Cult started by Lorgar. Simply through Faith. Seeing as how the Sisters literally worship as a god, they can make his will manifest on demand. The book also states that the Human language is exceptionally crude and unspecific, and while the Eldar do not see him as a god in their terms, for all intents and purposes, to humanity, the Emperor is now a literal god. As canon in Godblight.


Although as in-character viewpoints and opinions, these are fallible, this does seem to be the direction GW seems to be leaning/hinting these days. Of note also is the Farseer's statement that beings may be moulded by faith even as they are elevated by them. So the Emperor might have become a god through the unwished for worship of humanity, but in doing so these beliefs might have also changed the Emperor to be more in line with what humanity as a whole expects the Emperor to be. So the original Emperor might have not wanted a theocracy (maybe a secular dictatorship but not a theocracy), but now an ascended Emperor might want that since that is what humanity thinks the Emperor would have wanted. A sort of self-fulfilling prophecy.
   
Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter





also keep in mind the farseerer was just presenting Gulliman with one view and possiabilty. doesn't mean it's the truth just that it's one answer to the sticky "god or not god" problem

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in us
Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter




I wasn't speaking the validity of what the Farseer was saying, I was pointing out that the IDEA of a god is so far beyond human understanding that all we can do is the bare minimum: to name it a god. We cannot (Imperium) conceptualize the multitude of variant possibilities in "god", so he just comes out and says, in your extremely limited understanding, yes. The emperor is a god. But he then adds, by the exact same definition and understanding, so is Guilliman.
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




This kind of post s totally unacceptable here, please review the rules and never post in a similar manner again - ingtær.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/02 14:42:29


 
   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut




It does touch on do the beliefs create self-fulfilling prophecies essentially by creating gods/entities in the warp that meet those expectations?

The same could be said for the Eldar for example. They believe they are the children of an entity called Isha. That belief could create a warp entity called Isha, that may genuinely believe it created the Eldar and perhaps in dreams or prophecy or other religious experiences tell the Eldar that, even though it would be a lie.

However when it comes to the case of the Emperor, there does not seem to be any hint from GW that there are 2 Emperors (the one on the Throne, and a new warp entity created entirely from belief). The POV from Guilliman in the Dark Imperium novels shows that the original Emperor is still alive and active in some sense, though Godblight seems to have taken inspiration from the old Ian Watson Inquisitor novel and portrayed the Emperor's mind as fragmented, with some parts contradicting other parts. So it could be that a part or some parts of the Emperor are actually protecting the SoB.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/09/02 07:40:32


 
   
Made in gb
Sneaky Lictor





London

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Well, whatever empowers the Sisters? We can categorically say it’s not Warpcraft, thanks to Paycheck Awakening: Pariah.

For those who haven’t read it (it’s actually quite enjoyable), the Pariah Nexus is the location, and it’s where the Necrons have established enough Blackstone Pylons to shut down The Warp. And it’s expressly noted by Szeras (the main architect of the Nexus) that it has no effect upon Sisters of Battle.

So what is it really? Buggered if I know, but it’s not psychic.


I have to say, this really bugged me because it flies completely in the face of every other suggestion about the topic for thirty years.

I suspect it will quietly never be mentioned again to be honest.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





 The Phazer wrote:
I have to say, this really bugged me because it flies completely in the face of every other suggestion about the topic for thirty years.
It's only recently that the sisters miracles have become actually miraculous outside of the saints (rising from the dead, etc). Old-school faith could be chalked up to the sisters enthusiasm.
   
Made in us
Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter




I feel like the Farseer coming out and stating the precedent is GW's way of explaining how, yeah, so this happened, get used to it. The Eldar believed so hard in something they created a god. Now the eldar are saying that the Imperial Cult believes just as strongly, if not stronger, that the emperor is a god, and by right, Gman is as well. Which make the Ultras.....***HURK, VOMIT*** literal Demi-gods.
   
Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter





A.T. wrote:
 The Phazer wrote:
I have to say, this really bugged me because it flies completely in the face of every other suggestion about the topic for thirty years.
It's only recently that the sisters miracles have become actually miraculous outside of the saints (rising from the dead, etc). Old-school faith could be chalked up to the sisters enthusiasm.


it's been something since at least 5th edition If I recall correctly (3rd edition witchhunters is a bit before me) that said Piraiah changed everything as there's no longer any ability to suggest maybe it's latent psykers or maybe it's some sort of psykic gestalt. whatever the sisters acts of faith etc is, it's NOT conventional "witchery"

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in us
Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter




If that is true, then the Emperor is a god, and they are literal miracles. If the natural order is suspended, repeatedly, in a manner that can be tested and observed, it can only be a miracle. GW is pushing hard on the Emperor is a god. Which makes me think they are going to have the throne "break down" soon.
   
Made in gb
Ship's Officer





Bristol (UK)

Bearing in mind we have accounts that directly contradict that element of Pariah Nexus; in Fall of Cadia the blackstone pylons do inhibit the Sister's faith.

It's just another element of inconsistent background. I'd chalk up Pariah Nexus as the outlier and write it off.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





BrianDavion wrote:
it's been something since at least 5th edition If I recall correctly (3rd edition witchhunters is a bit before me) that said Piraiah changed everything as there's no longer any ability to suggest maybe it's latent psykers or maybe it's some sort of psykic gestalt. whatever the sisters acts of faith etc is, it's NOT conventional "witchery"
The sisters have also carried around a variety of null rods, psy-detectors, and witch-burning implements over the editions without bursting into flame themselves.


 kirotheavenger wrote:
Bearing in mind we have accounts that directly contradict that element of Pariah Nexus; in Fall of Cadia the blackstone pylons do inhibit the Sister's faith.
Wasn't that just Celestine specifically though? (and by extension the protection and healing she conveys to her gemini).
   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut




A.T. wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
it's been something since at least 5th edition If I recall correctly (3rd edition witchhunters is a bit before me) that said Piraiah changed everything as there's no longer any ability to suggest maybe it's latent psykers or maybe it's some sort of psykic gestalt. whatever the sisters acts of faith etc is, it's NOT conventional "witchery"
The sisters have also carried around a variety of null rods, psy-detectors, and witch-burning implements over the editions without bursting into flame themselves.


Again I would chalk it up to supernatural effects via the direct intervention of a god don't "count" as psychic powers for purposes of being affected by null rods and or any specific anti-psyker effects. Same way that Death Guard have bodies that should not function due to the decay and disease yet they don't die and exist in an ongoing decaying state, yet don't count as psykers nor do they suddenly keel over if they enter a Necron null zone. I justify that as Nurgle's special touch to all his plague afflicted followers.

 kirotheavenger wrote:
Bearing in mind we have accounts that directly contradict that element of Pariah Nexus; in Fall of Cadia the blackstone pylons do inhibit the Sister's faith.
Wasn't that just Celestine specifically though? (and by extension the protection and healing she conveys to her gemini).


Celestine IIRC. TRuleswise she does not count as a psyker or daemon (even though that is basically what she seems to be, albeit one for the Emperor), but the depiction in the story seemed to show her as one, with her light dimming just as the daemons of Chaos weakened from the pylons' activation.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/03 16:54:18


 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





Iracundus wrote:
Celestine IIRC. TRuleswise she does not count as a psyker or daemon (even though that is basically what she seems to be, albeit one for the Emperor), but the depiction in the story seemed to show her as one, with her light dimming just as the daemons of Chaos weakened from the pylons' activation.
The interesting thing about the pylons is that Abaddon also lost his power, despite being neither a psyker nor a daemon in the usual scheme of things.
   
 
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