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IF i used it at my previous GT i wouldnt do well, because NONE of the ruins had large enough footprints for me to be able to use "Surprise! stratagem on the kommandos. They would just be charged and destroyed. The list is entirely map dependant, if there are no large ruins to hide kommandos in, your effectiveness is lowered a lot.

I've tried the list a few times. my shop uses NOVA style foam terrain - decent size foot prints, but still very difficult to leverage surprise outside of the two big L shaped terrain pieces that are 11x8 - the walls on these things are exactly an inch thick, so no fighting through them. if the stratagem was within 1" of a terrain feature instead of wholly within it would have utility on a larger variety of boards.

GW terrain doesnt have this problem because the 4 big pieces are something like 11x11, the two smaller ones are 5.5x11 with space enough to drive a land raider through the terrain itself on some of the boards.

CaptainO wrote:
Ref the kustom stompa list, does a super heavy auxilary detachment now refund all the cp now? Because otherwise....

its legal. in battlescribe when you add a super heavy aux you have to manually add both the detachment cost and the Shared Faction Bonus to get the 3cp refund.

 Grimskul wrote:

 Afrodactyl wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:
I really REALLY want someone to find the video of the Youtuber losing his mind over Mozrod but I think he deleted the video because of how utterly silly he looked.

Found the link in one of my chat logs - it was literally called "THIS IS THE MOST BROKEN UNIT EVER". It's now set to private and therefore no longer available. What a panzee.

That video was priceless and I'm genuinely upset I can't watch it any more


In other news, I might try out some Killsaw Manz for a game or two. They're kinda expensive and the d3 damage can sometimes go against you, but the extra attack and pip of AP is looking very appealing.

Anyone tried killsaws recently?

Yeah...most people screaming that the sky is falling for Ork units baffle me, especially because they're almost exclusively from non-Ork players talking out their rears. Stuff like the Souped Up Shokk Attack Gun wiping out a unit in a single volley (and conveniently forgetting the turns where it rolled doubled 1's for strength and 3 shots...) or saying the Stompa was super strong from guys like Reece...and they all quietly shuffle away and pretend they ever said such nonsense when tournie results roll around and they're proven horribly wrong.

I'd say that double killsaw manz are pretty good, particularly as trukkboyz or Goffs. I think ideally they're best against armies that have AoC or some equivalent of it, because the AP-4 makes a big difference to ensure that enemies at least have a 5+ or worse save compared to regular klaws and the extra attack really helps when you combo it with a WAAAGH! or Warpath. I feel you need to take a unit of 4-5 min though to ensure enough attacks get through. Always keep in mind if you have 2CP in your back pocket to use Hit Em Harder, since it gives you a potential chance for 3-4 damage from the D3+1 damage which helps against all the -1D everywhere. They're even better if you can have a Trukkboy warboss with them when they deploy so you can maximize the amount of hits with their +1 to hit aura.

i was in a doubles tourney last weekend with a bud who is a very experienced GT player, consistently x-1. hes never run orks himself and saw it as a chance to do so. his list - zagstruk, tarpit squigboss, 17 deffkoptas, 18 squighogs, 2 mega dreads and 2x10 grots. our first match we cleaned up against ork/bieltan when we were helping them with their rules throughout the game. match 2 is against Tau/DG - literal ork kryptonite. hes losing his mind that 7 blightlord termies with -1 to be hit and -1 dmg are taking forever to clear and minced down 12 squigs on their own. no duh, half output against a 2+ save hurts.

game 3 really breaks him - hey can these 6 deffkoptas kill a carnivore? i dunno, maybe. tried explaining to him that orks either bounce or you feel like you are cheating. he rolled hot on the number of shots, rolls lower on the number of hits, and low on the wounds, does zero damage. i'm laughing my ass off and hes flabbergasted.

oh and zagstruk - boss sits on our home objective 95% of the time. solid 110pt investment that.

cue the james franco First Time? meme to sum up the day. none of what happened surprised me in the least, found it entertaining as all get out.

proves that some people are just not ork players.

1-2 overall.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Beardedragon wrote:
The only reason i see orks being super good on release was because not a lot else had gotten their codexes yet.

Id go as far as to say that if we could still slam down 9 scrapjets now we still wouldnt be the best faction out there.

you could take 4 planes, 6 squigbuggies, 6 megatrakks and some objective monkeys. planes and the rukkatrukks kick off freebooterz, and then the hardest challenge is deciding how much to leave alive for next turn to have an easy time tabling someone. dakkajets for example - during speed waagh 42 shots, hitting on 4s, S6 ap2 1dmg. thats 15 wounds into a T3 4+ body, 9 in to MEQ. remember theres no AoC and admech/drukhari are the boogeymen of the day. megatrakks? 3d3+1 S8 ap3 3d shots hitting on 4s plus 22 S5 ap1 1dmg shots. the sheer volume of fire suddenly hitting on 4s was oppressive to the highest degree.

and then indirect was nerfed, planes were restricted to 2, and buggies limited to 1 unit.

Beardedragon wrote:
Nothing for orks though.

But i guess we could be in a worse place anyway. So i guess its fine.

one of our worst matchups(nids) just improved substantially with the changes to leviathan army wide transhuman so orks wuz buffed

do you have to stand there by the end of the battle round?

Da Biggest and Da Best scores at the end of the round, checking to see if:

if your warlord did wounds to a character monster vehicle in melee
5 or more models killed
unit destroyed
warlord is within range of an objective marker you control not in your deployment zone


so yes, at the end of the round you must control the objective marker your WL is standing on.

The strength value of butcher boys does not go up on a goff charge

Goff charge DOES increase the strength of butcher boys, WAAGH does not.

Goff:
Each time a model with this kultur makes a melee attack, if this model's unit makes a charge move, or perfformed a Heroic Intervention this turn, add 1 to the Strength characteristic of that attack.

compared to waagh:
Add 1 to the Strength and Attacks characteristic of ORKS models from your army

which would not affect the strength of any fixed S profiles like butcher boys

ork troops actually do work. the one thing that IS interesting out of all of this to me is a kill tank with giga shoota. 275 points for alot of dakka thats effectively always hitting on 4s

 Jidmah wrote:
There are some DG leaks on reddit claiming that AoC will be going away with the next dataslate as it's an universally hated rule.

highly doubt the leaks are true. there were leaks before the last dataslate and they were all bunk too because none of this goes to print/early release for marketing etc.

edit: welp this aged poorly based on the DoG stream

But if free weapon upgrades... then the newly made double kill saw nobz i just made will come in handy as trukkboyz.

evil suns 10 trukk nobz with double kill saws for 240 points including the trukk...thats as brutal as death company with hammers...flanked by a squad of bikers and bikerboss with rezmekkas redder paint for orks only source of fight last. 580 points in total and 1 cp for that, 2 if you want to make the boss more likely to live w/ ard as nails. pretty gnarly. just pray you go first or they lack S8 shooting

tag units with their auras inside transports now which I didn't really see anywhere in the dex

yah thats going to be a show me situation because thats a pretty big departure. units in transports cant be the target of anything nor do their auras exist unless specifically stated otherwise.

they CAN disembark during the movement phase then immediately give an order as if it were the command phase, but not seeing anything about their auras working while in a vehicle with transport capacity.

 Tomsug wrote:
Nobz are not troops (important in AoO) and not obsec and low body count for holding objectives.

Nobz have a very much SM profile so there is too many guns ready to kill them.

With single detachement, just one truknobz can be used (or 2 with the patrol).

we can't take the patrol - the patrol must be one of the allied ones listed in the book and orks get none. yes you get 1 specialist mob period now. choose wisely.

 Afrodactyl wrote:


As far as Ghaz is concerned, I think I'm going to keep him in. I don't get any benefit from the Speedwaaagh side of the Great Waaagh, but I think I'd rather spend the extra 140 points over a second decked out Squigboss than spend the CP.

with the proliferation of "ignore rules that ignore wounds" Ghaz value is declining rapidly - no look out sir, cannot go through walls(and moves 7" at top bracket). he just cant get anywhere to do anything meaningful in time and doing 4 wounds in 3 phases in one turn isnt a challenge for any army except Tau and knights.

if he could breach MAYBE because you could reasonably hide him until hes ready to kool-aid man but as is hes too slow and too easy to kill.

ghaz is slightly worse now that biggest and baddest is gone and more units ignore wound caps

Ghaz is about to be come very local meta dependent. Marine armies will have no problem 1 turning ghaz, and dropping him over 2 turns isnt a huge endeavor with shooty marines being viable again. ghaz just moves too slow for not being able to go through walls or not having look out sir and no always fights first. i'd rather have 10 meganobs than Ghaz in just about every scenario.

100pt squad of 5 Marines armed with 3 Combi Meltas and 2 Multi-Meltas...and a PF just because

This is whats making me wonder if squighogs are going to stay meta this season. i have already pulled kill rigs from my lists - everyone knows what they can do and there should be enough anti tank out there now to make them a liability.

if i did pull squighogs i dont know what i would sub in...drop the mek gunz and 10 grots, add in 30 snagga boyz, 30 stormboyz

The toughness boost WOULD have made orks extremely annoying to get rid of if they didnt also at the same exact time completely screw over our morale. Literally dropped our survivability in the same wave they increased the toughness because morale hurt us THAT badly

for boys, going to T5, the effective -1 to be wounded roughly washes out with morale losses, but it feels a heck of alot less bad to lose to a wound than morale. there is more agency in protecting against failed wounds too - i can spend the points to have a kff mek around, or choose to run units with a 6++. there is absolutely nothing i can do to mitigate morale that doesnt cost me 2cp and require i have nobs around.

it absolutely dumps on anything that costs more than 10ppm

 Afrodactyl wrote:
If Goffs alpha strike goes the way of the dodo, we might be well off going for infantry spam with Deathskulls.

Something like;
Squigboss
Weirdboy
20x Snagga Boys
30x Grots
9x Burna Boys
30x Kommandos
10x MANz
2x Mini Meks
15x Stormboyz
Battlewagon
2x Kill Rig

That gives you 116 infantry models which are all obsec. You are relying heavily on the Boss and the rigs to do all of the heavy lifting, but you might just be able to purely outscore.

a solid ravenwing list making the rounds has 40 multi melta shots by accident, tons of S6 ap1 1d shots, all moving 14"+ adv and shoot with a 4++
iron hands are just as if not more busted

part of the power of kill rigs is psychological - people dont have the tools to effectively deal with them at range so they try to play around them. That advantage is about to be gone in the most absurd way.

orks are going to have to go old school this season - maximum body count, flood the board, screen out enemy reserves, and hold on to objectives.

Beardedragon wrote:
So... 12 units of 10 boys? and a bunch of other things?

You couldnt have 6 heavy support slots AND lets say, 4 elite slots? What the hell? You cant even have 4 fast attack slots AND 4 elite slots? This new system is stupid! I thought you could!

AoO detachment allows you to skip on troops if yours suck, and pivot in to fast attack or heavy without spending 2-3cp for an additional detachment to get more than 3 units.

a battalion would have been capped at 6 elite, 3 fast attack, and 3 heavy. it would cost you 2cp, 1 HQ and 1 troop to get 2 more of each, or 3cp and an HQ

AoO does pose challenges for ork builds - our crap leadership forces MSU and our units are cheap, 1155 points fills out 9 infantry slots in elite/fast attack. in deathguard i can drop 1200 on 3 elite slots alone and not be hamstringing myself

I think if I do that then I lose all my kommandos turn 1 because they likely aren't making many, if any, charges

they are starting 12-9" off the enemy line and move 6", how are you not making 3-6" charges rerolled?

tneva82 wrote:
Yes. That's what it's intended for(among other similar restrictions)

Hmm btw does it apply only to 1 restriction or all? Aka is it 2 warboss+1 specialist mob or reverse or mayhap you get 1 more of each?

Heroic support
if a detachment ability would limit the number of times you can include a unit in that detachment to 1, you can include a maximum of 2 of that unit in that detachment instead.

now that you ask it, i read that as increasing once per detachment restrictions to two, so two bosses, two kustom jobs, two specialist mobs

going to ping goonhammer and see what they think

edit: hashed it out with my local group and goonhammer - specialist MOBS and kustom jobs are not listed as detachment abilities so they do not get the benefit of heroic support.
the detachment ability specialist LADZ is the ork equivalent of agents of the imperium and lets you include certain units in a clan detachment without losing kulturs.

so one additional warboss only, nothing else.

Unless you mean something else by extra slots.

Arks of Omens detachments have 3 elite slots for keyword characters, so in theory you could have a maximum of 9 elites - 6 normal and 3 characters

battlescribe isnt supporting it yet.

Forceride wrote:
So T8 is the new read meat?

if vehicles are on the menu, anything beast snaggas are that much more valuable. hitting on 2s and good strat support, and a permanent if small invuln save, i'll take it

 Tomsug wrote:
Ok, final tmes at LVO with our orks came to very interesting conclusion. Does anybody hit the point? They really messed up counting the points?

https://fb.watch/inq41bawem/

after WGL stopped broadcasting, they rechecked points and realized that on T3 Soli had underscored himself by 4 primary points. If that information had been known at that point in the game, it would have changed how turns 3-5 played out entirely for both sides. Rather than have a feelsbad for either side, they settled it with a dice roll.

high roll that is also a 4+ wins.

first roll - both roll 3
second roll - nayden rolls 6, Soli rolls 4, so Nayden goes on to the finals.

Incognito15 wrote:
How do you guys handle a csm terminator deathstar? Had can only be hit on 4s, wound -1, 5++ fnp,

I tried bubble wrapping it and not charging. Didnt really work. I threw a meganobz unit and a boyz squad and killed 2 but then he healed and brought one back next turn.

Just wondered others experience.

It was emperors children.

wait for a turn where they fail their buffs, or do not engage any more than you have to.
kill the buffers, kill everything else and just speed bump them as much as possible.