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Harlies nerf was the typical GW "stop using that army we cant balance it" nerf. Theyve done it several times and im honestly surprised it took this long for harlies to get slapped like that.
They didnt even compensate really for doing it, so yeah its straight up "stop using them" level of nerf.

 Tomsug wrote:
Nobz are not troops (important in AoO) and not obsec and low body count for holding objectives.

Nobz have a very much SM profile so there is too many guns ready to kill them.

With single detachement, just one truknobz can be used (or 2 with the patrol).

I can imagine a list with a single 10 truknobz blob in the trukk for long range charge in T1/2. That can do a damage and stop one side of the front for a turn. But they die in a single turn. Is it good investment for about 250p incl trukk?

Who cares, we aren't even using troops these days besides grots for the secondary, want troops? bring grots! If obsec was really that important with be rolling Deathskulls, last i check we aren't, having obsec is good but having more bodies capable of threatening your opponent is far more. Pre-move is way more important in my book.. that's why kommandos is a must.

If no pre-move, you want something that can hold a little bit and cause damage. Hell pretty sure beast snaggas are picked because they can swing inside a killrigg to the front, not because of the stats or being troops. You allow kill riggs to carry any infantry and all of sudden you see it fill to the brim with meganobz and other nasties.

SM profile? Just hide them.. i can't even relate to this argument because the game is so lethal that everything dies, it's like your playing an entire different game to me... it's more important to hide stuff more then ever. The only model i have seen taking a beating and survive were crisis suits and even those you can move around them.

Truckboys? I am not sure you checked but someone mentioned, you can only take 1 now. And i am not sure 150/160pts is worth the cost to catapult a bunch of boys solo somewhere. Again.. why pre-move is so important and kommandos are so up there.

I just don't see boys going to be any good this season. But that's my take, i really wanted to boys to be good.

Anyway, biggest winners looks to be Custodes..

How so? The only changes Custodes got were points tweaks to their silent sister units right?

cody.d. wrote:
How so? The only changes Custodes got were points tweaks to their silent sister units right?

They also gained ObSec on all Core Infantry. And lost the once per game restrictions on some strats.

ya I don't really see either boys being taken much now. We really only took snaggas to go in killrigs and those are gonna get blown sky high in a guard/iron hands meta. If your taking a weirdboy I'd probably take a couple squads for da jump, but other than that I'd probably just spam kommando, stormboy, manz.

Hmm, fair enough. Those are some decent buffs for them.

Shame some of our units didn't get minor tweaks. Core on walkers would have been rather welcome.

cody.d. wrote:
Hmm, fair enough. Those are some decent buffs for them.

Shame some of our units didn't get minor tweaks. Core on walkers would have been rather welcome.

GW listen to this man, oh please for all mork and gork!

Just thought of one problem with the new detachment....Ghaz...

Ghaz could be put in a Supreme Detachment and benefit from Goffs despite the rest of your army not being Goff because it was detachment based not army based for those restrictions. Now he has to be in the same detachment, so now its either a Goff army or Ghaz gets no Goff rules.

ya that's what I was trying to figure out. Idk if the ally rules will allow us to take a another clan in a patrol or not because otherwise ghaz kinda loses his appeal in anything not goffs.

I'm not really sure if ghaz missing out on exploding sixes is much to worry about.

If you're taking ghaz outside of goffs it's for the waagh mostly right? Maybe the ld buffs too. As a beatstick you can get good equivalents for 300pts. Now the gorkanaut is toeing into the same area with the points drop.

well your also losing your clan strategems/relics, not that it's a huge deal breaker. I do like some of the blood axe ones though so will just not run him in those lists.

actually you'd still be on goff strats because that is specifically tied to your warlord if you have access to them.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Harlies nerf was the typical GW "stop using that army we cant balance it" nerf. Theyve done it several times and im honestly surprised it took this long for harlies to get slapped like that.
They didnt even compensate really for doing it, so yeah its straight up "stop using them" level of nerf.

Yup, they are pretty well boned, but at the same time they gave them back the most ridiculously OP Sniper in the game.

So Nobz didn't get the free PKs/Saws we were hoping for. I think my Trukkboyz unit of choice is going to be Double Saw MANz for now. They still get early charges, their attacks will actually stick, and they might survive into the next turn, at which point my Squigs and other MANz get stuck in as well.

As far as Ghaz is concerned, I think I'm going to keep him in. I don't get any benefit from the Speedwaaagh side of the Great Waaagh, but I think I'd rather spend the extra 140 points over a second decked out Squigboss than spend the CP.

Beardedragon wrote:
How was it made up to the factions that lost AoC? I only play orks. just so that im aware of it. Unless there was nothing to make up for it and GW just said: Well, F you AoC factions.

Well, at least for DG it was very much that. You get a reduction of ~100 point across a coherent 2k list, AoC has been calculated to be worth roughly 400 points of defense for a DG army. Since all other AoC armies outnumber them, and due to the BRB nerf to DR, it is likely they will drop back to their pre-AoC 30% winrate.

Loyalist marines got massives point drops, free gear everywhere, sticky objectives and 8th edition doctrines back, so they'll be fine.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

cody.d. wrote:
I'm not really sure if ghaz missing out on exploding sixes is much to worry about.

If you're taking ghaz outside of goffs it's for the waagh mostly right? Maybe the ld buffs too. As a beatstick you can get good equivalents for 300pts. Now the gorkanaut is toeing into the same area with the points drop.

Honestly, I feel like the morkanaut looks much better. As the Waaagh! provides the invul, there really is no reason to buy the KFF and you get a much better gun (i.e. turn 1 impact) for less points.

Yeah and DG are mega crying right now as a result.
Sorry for them but a fix for them shouldnt neuter another army completely.

Hopefully DG/Sisters get some love because both of them didnt really get squat and lost AoC (DG more than Sisters)

 Jidmah wrote:


Honestly, I feel like the morkanaut looks much better. As the Waaagh! provides the invul, there really is no reason to buy the KFF and you get a much better gun (i.e. turn 1 impact) for less points.

Having used the Morkanaut in a bunch of friendly matches...it doesn't work well. Way too many armies have easy access to -1 to hit, or at the least, they have the ability to put -1 to hit on the important stuff you want the morkanaut shooting at. And -1 to hit means you are almost as likely to hurt yourself as the enemy. Against a T7 vehicle with a 3+ save that has -1 to hit the Morkanaut averages 6 shots, 1 hit and 1 roll of a 1. That roll of a 1 inflicts a mortal wound on yourself 100% of the time, the 1 hit you got has a 2/3rds chance to wound and against a 3+ it has a 5/6th chance to go through armor and then averages 3.5dmg. So that works out to just shy of 2dmg a turn on average.

I still argue that Orks (especially since we technically lost our army wide 6s always hit rule when everyone else got it as well), should get an army wide rule that says they always hit on a 5. The prevalence of -1 to hit is a minor inconvenience to SM armies, against our shooting units though its a 50% reduction in dmg. Kind of a big deal.

Yeah i was thinking about using a mork again until i realized the only reason i used it so much was Deathskullz shenanigans and/or the Kustom Job to hit on 4s.
It really needs BS4+. That gun realistically is going to nuke 1 elite model between accuracy and fnp/invuls, not delete tanks like it used to.

At least i think the gork is good enough to use casually now. Definitely not ever considering it if im being serious as it isnt fast enough to get melee quickly and even if you dont blow it up its melee gets less deadly stupid fast. Price cut and getting kultures again help a lot.
(i used to wish that things degraded but i really hate the way they did it....lot of things feel like they dont care and others feel like theyre dead long before theyre actually dead)

Yeah, it always bothered me that the Morkanaut didn't have BS4+ despite the fact that it was basically piloted by a Mek, which got boosted to BS4+ in the new codex. I always thought that it would be a nice dichotomy of how the Mork was shootier and the Gorkanaut was stompier from not just the weapon options but also the unit stats beyond just the base level of attacks. Heck, given how we have no way of making our Morkanauts/Gorkanauts fight at top bracket for strats or ways of mitigating damage (really, no ramshackle?) it wouldn't be past to give the Gorkanaut WS2+ so he can actually do some consistent damage given there's no army buffs it can receive barring Buzzgob.

SemperMortis wrote:


I still argue that Orks (especially since we technically lost our army wide 6s always hit rule when everyone else got it as well), should get an army wide rule that says they always hit on a 5. The prevalence of -1 to hit is a minor inconvenience to SM armies, against our shooting units though its a 50% reduction in dmg. Kind of a big deal.

And AP1 drops a 2+ from a 17% chance of an unsaved wound to 33%. Cover is more beneficial to higher save models as a result. Modifiers and rerolls affect certain statlines more than others. Reroll 1s is also more beneficial to higher BS and full rerolls are the inverse. You can tell at a glance that GW doesn't realize this in general and does not take it into account at all in their points or rules formulations.

yeah i miss the days of static cover saves. Basically an invul save for shooting only that some weapons ignored.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
yeah i miss the days of static cover saves. Basically an invul save for shooting only that some weapons ignored.

Unfortunately, lots of MEQ players were salty that it benefited armies like ours more, even though it still helped them against the increasing number of high AP weapons in previous editions, so that got nixed when the game got revamped. Marine players unfortunately have a very strong voice inside and outside the GW studio due to how much of a money maker they are.

 Afrodactyl wrote:


As far as Ghaz is concerned, I think I'm going to keep him in. I don't get any benefit from the Speedwaaagh side of the Great Waaagh, but I think I'd rather spend the extra 140 points over a second decked out Squigboss than spend the CP.

with the proliferation of "ignore rules that ignore wounds" Ghaz value is declining rapidly - no look out sir, cannot go through walls(and moves 7" at top bracket). he just cant get anywhere to do anything meaningful in time and doing 4 wounds in 3 phases in one turn isnt a challenge for any army except Tau and knights.

if he could breach MAYBE because you could reasonably hide him until hes ready to kool-aid man but as is hes too slow and too easy to kill.

terennNash wrote:

 Afrodactyl wrote:


As far as Ghaz is concerned, I think I'm going to keep him in. I don't get any benefit from the Speedwaaagh side of the Great Waaagh, but I think I'd rather spend the extra 140 points over a second decked out Squigboss than spend the CP.

with the proliferation of "ignore rules that ignore wounds" Ghaz value is declining rapidly - no look out sir, cannot go through walls(and moves 7" at top bracket). he just cant get anywhere to do anything meaningful in time and doing 4 wounds in 3 phases in one turn isnt a challenge for any army except Tau and knights.

if he could breach MAYBE because you could reasonably hide him until hes ready to kool-aid man but as is hes too slow and too easy to kill.

I am considering the same, now that the 2cp extra is off the table with the new army building in AoO, the removal of the boss is the best secondary, i am also struggling to validate Ghaz, the wound phasing has it's uses but that 7' move is a pain.. Double waagh is not even that good as well... Unless i see some support on dakka weapons i am not sure it's worth it.

I rather bring 2 Beastboss on Squigassaur.

Heya guys, I just wanted to have a moan that the warzone octarius book is now invalid according to the Content Validity Update, meaning we can't use the extra Blood Axes rules anymore for tournament play. Seems a bit arbitary as there's nothing new coming for orks afaik.

Thanks feel better now!

 PaddyMick wrote:
Heya guys, I just wanted to have a moan that the warzone octarius book is now invalid according to the Content Validity Update, meaning we can't use the extra Blood Axes rules anymore for tournament play. Seems a bit arbitary as there's nothing new coming for orks afaik.


Thanks feel better now!

oh i thought only the speed mob was invalidated.

can we not use the extra blood axe stratagems? they are just stratagems for a klan?

But i guess you are right. they were a suppliment.. thats sad.

Also the consensus seems to be we wont be getting the patrol option? Only the arks of Omen? That fething sucks. I thought we could get an arks of Omen AND a patrol.

Unless otherwise announced, the whole book will be scrapped on the end of the month without any exceptions.

It was the best book orks had in last couple of years.

Interesting, fun to play, easy to play, had a meaning. I hope the same bunch of people who wrote it write the new codex too.

RIP speedmob
RIP blood axe

Regarding ghaz he was always better w goffs. Not only for his own buffing reasons but his reroll aura was goffs, makari only works on goffs,

Regardless I think the supreme commmand issue will be faq as a lot of codexs have issues with supreme command and ark of omen detachment having no exception for it to be battleforged.

Sad that manz are still the same cost. They've allready been worse than sm termies and now even more so. I mean just compare a 30pt meganob to a 32 or 33 pt deathwing with a storm shield and thunder hammer. It's like comparing a grot to a space marine and saying: yeah, they should cost the same.

On the bright-ish side: kanz got a bit cheaper. And I have 6. So, why not outflank cp-free all 6 with something like a bunch of flamers or stock bigshootas for a nice 3d6 charge. Just got to somehow make ghaz survive till t2. Need to roll first turn more than ever.

Beardedragon wrote:
Also the consensus seems to be we wont be getting the patrol option? Only the arks of Omen? That fething sucks. I thought we could get an arks of Omen AND a patrol.

Yeah that's the way it's gone. Orks don't even get any allies. Evil Sunz can't ally with Goffs but any Imperium can ally with Votann.
So no double patrol and taking 2 specialist mobs any more. But you can get 2 warbossess and 3 character elite slots on top of normal elite slots.