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Made in us
Been Around the Block





I don't play TAU but I always hear that they lack good close combat troops. Would they benefit from a monk style unit that uses fists, swords, polearms? They strike me as having the Monk vibe. What caste or maybe every caste could have their own style. Just a thought.
   
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Nope, the number 1 rule of Tau is this:

-you the space marine fanboi must complain that tau only operate in one phase of the game

-you the space marine fanboi must also complain any time anyone suggests a thing tau might be able to use in clsoe combat or psychic phases

-you must also for some reason complain that tau only exist to pander to the asian market despite not having a problem with for example space wolves pandering to the nordic market.

"I can't believe all these tryhard WAACs out there just care about winning all the time when it's supposed to be a game for fun!!!!!!! Also here's my 27 page essay on why marines are OP and Orkz should get a bunch of OP rules so I can win more games

-the_scotsman"

-ERJAK 
   
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ottokill wrote:
I don't play TAU but I always hear that they lack good close combat troops.


Yes. That is a feature, not a bug.

If Tau were to ever get proper HTH troops they need to be auxiliaries, not actual Tau- but that would require GW to actually stop their Gundam fetish they currently have with Tau and actually give a damn about xeno releases for longer than a hot minute...



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ottokill wrote:
I don't play TAU but I always hear that they lack good close combat troops. Would they benefit from a monk style unit that uses fists, swords, polearms? They strike me as having the Monk vibe. What caste or maybe every caste could have their own style. Just a thought.


Don;t we already have these as the bodyguards to Etherials?

I AM A MARINE PLAYER

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ottokill wrote:
I don't play TAU but I always hear that they lack good close combat troops. Would they benefit from a monk style unit that uses fists, swords, polearms? They strike me as having the Monk vibe. What caste or maybe every caste could have their own style. Just a thought.


Nope. Bigger, better rail guns. That's their solution.

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 Grimtuff wrote:
ottokill wrote:
I don't play TAU but I always hear that they lack good close combat troops.


Yes. That is a feature, not a bug.

If Tau were to ever get proper HTH troops they need to be auxiliaries, not actual Tau- but that would require GW to actually stop their Gundam fetish they currently have with Tau and actually give a damn about xeno releases for longer than a hot minute...

I second this. It'll help the game and faction a lot more if GW fleshed out their auxiliaries as a means of shoring up the T'au deficiencies.


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 Mixzremixzd wrote:
 Grimtuff wrote:
ottokill wrote:
I don't play TAU but I always hear that they lack good close combat troops.


Yes. That is a feature, not a bug.

If Tau were to ever get proper HTH troops they need to be auxiliaries, not actual Tau- but that would require GW to actually stop their Gundam fetish they currently have with Tau and actually give a damn about xeno releases for longer than a hot minute...

I second this. It'll help the game and faction a lot more if GW fleshed out their auxiliaries as a means of shoring up the T'au deficiencies.


That's a funny way of saying "undermining the faction theme". I'd rather see Auxilliaries as their own faction, GW already has a problem with maintaining the thematic elements of their armies, they don't need to be encouraged to water down one of the few armies they have that have retained their theme.


 
   
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For Tau I prefer less meele units and more short range heavy shooting units.

Something like the Necromunda heavy palatine guard. Tau firecaste with heavy armor, thick shields and flamethrowers or whatever.

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-Defining a faction based on what they DONT have is stupid. All you're really doing is needlessly excluding them from half the game, rather than giving them character.

Tau should absolutely have dedicated combat units. Samurai crisis suits would be awesome. An elite kroot unit would also fit that role if you wanted to be more conservative l.

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Gathering the Informations.

TLDR version:
No. They should have technologically based ways to influence combat. Things like the Grav-Inhibitor Drone were a great start, but sadly never populated.

Also, insisting that suits are somehow bad for a focus overlooks that there is not really much room for the Tau to grow unless it just keeps being "add more flyers".
   
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 Mr Morden wrote:
ottokill wrote:
I don't play TAU but I always hear that they lack good close combat troops. Would they benefit from a monk style unit that uses fists, swords, polearms? They strike me as having the Monk vibe. What caste or maybe every caste could have their own style. Just a thought.


Don;t we already have these as the bodyguards to Etherials?


and with aun'shi as well.
Tau can do hand to hand and there are examples of it working in small cases, Darkstrider Vs the vindicare in the montka damocles book for example. I refuse to use Fire Warrior as a canon story so Shas'O Kais doesnt count to me but he was a Khornate FW.

to fill the melee role honestly just let body guard XV88's have a slightly higher WS then normal suits do and it would be fine.
   
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Gathering the Informations.

Darkstrider doesn't kill the Vindicare in hand to hand.

He shoots him with a pistol.

Sorry! It was his pulse carbine, fired from the hip after using a photon grenade and his Pathfinder team to disorient and suppress/funnel the Vindicare.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/23 18:28:09


 
   
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Tau would generally benefit from one thing only, and that is a completely different style of game. 9th is the utter backswing of the pendulum from the death stars of 7th, and the gun lines of 8th. We are now in HYPER SUPER MELEE 9000, where even the lowliest and frailest Space Elf can vivisect a Custodian without blinking.
   
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 footfoe wrote:
-Defining a faction based on what they DONT have is stupid. All you're really doing is needlessly excluding them from half the game, rather than giving them character.

Tau should absolutely have dedicated combat units. Samurai crisis suits would be awesome. An elite kroot unit would also fit that role if you wanted to be more conservative l.


No it doesn't. You know how you could make T'au relevant in melee? A unit with sub-machine style pulse weapons with the Pistol keyword that gets a bonus to hit or something when firing them within 1" of an enemy. Still melee orientated but it's not something unthematic like a ranged focused army having a unit of katana/shaolin combat men just because they're Not Asians.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/23 19:19:29



 
   
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Gathering the Informations.

They don't even need a new weapon...just give them a special rule allowing for Pulse Blasters and Carbines to be used as Pistol weapons.
   
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I could see Tau bringing tools that are for hunting, immobilizing, and containing close combat threats.

Not a melee killer units, but close range trappers. Light troops that focus on deploying traps and retreating into safety, and heavier suits that deploy containment tools or heavier paralyzing weaponry while relying on armor and shield technology to stay in place.

Webber drones, electro-nets, emp mines, rapidly expanding glue/foam burst shells, and so on.

Kroot know-how + Tau tech.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/23 20:09:52


 
   
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on the forum. Obviously

ottokill wrote:
I don't play TAU but I always hear that they lack good close combat troops. Would they benefit from a monk style unit that uses fists, swords, polearms? They strike me as having the Monk vibe. What caste or maybe every caste could have their own style. Just a thought.


In theory auxiliaries already fulfill the close combat needs of the Tau.
In practice auxiliaries suck.
Ethereals already go for a shaolin staff fighting style anyway, iirc.

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Gathering the Informations.

In theory, auxiliaries provide a niche role that Tau don't.

In practice, they did do that. Kroot Hounds provided CC(which was waaaaaaay better when they were an individual unit), Kroot provided a skirmishing fieldcraft unit, and Krootox provided a bit of a heavy "oomph" that wasn't a big battlesuit or tank.

The game's changed since then though. Kroot were never meant to be some kind of ace close combat fighters--it was literally always just that their musculature made them "surprisingly strong" up close. Hence the bladed rifles.

Time wears on, it got watered down to "Kroot are CC fighters!".

If we really want to see stuff happening in an interesting way again?
Kroot Hounds and Krootox need to be separate units again.
Tau Battlesuits of Broadside or higher classifications should get a "photon caster" system(effectively defensive grenades), Grav Drones should be more widespread, Carbines should have the option to be used as pistols, and there's probably more but I'm not going to list it all I guess.
   
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Auxiliaries are great like Kroot and vespids, etc but the Ethereals should expand on their martial prowess within the T'au themselves IMO.
   
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Gathering the Informations.

Aun'shi was an exception, not the rule.

Really, there's not a need to do "martial prowess"...unless you're arguing that they should get more commander-y style abilities.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/23 22:10:18


 
   
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My own personal solution for "melee Tau" has always been to take a leaf out of the DoW Tau Commander's book and give the Crisis teams more tools for shooting while "in melee".

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Just agreeing with points others have already made:

* We already kind of have them.
* They shouldn't be tied to other castes; the whole premise of tau society is that only fire (and apparently ethereal) caste should be practicing martial arts.
* Making kroot and vespid more scary is probably a better way to go, as is giving tau more pistol-ish options.
* Weaknesses are a valid way of building faction identity, and faction identity is generally a good thing. I think it's uncontroversial to say that most of us want our armies to feel unqiue; not like we're all playing variations on the same theme.
   
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all Tau pulse weaponry carried by infantry and crsis suit count as pistol when engaged in close combat with -1 to hit (so effectively using their WS for most units)
   
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ottokill wrote:
I don't play TAU but I always hear that they lack good close combat troops. Would they benefit from a monk style unit that uses fists, swords, polearms? They strike me as having the Monk vibe. What caste or maybe every caste could have their own style. Just a thought.


Yes, the faction would benefit from a new unit with new possibilities added to the player's toolset.

However it would not be what I'm interested in as a Tau player.
I'm not interested in new models, I want existing models to be worth taking into my army lists. I want Kroot Carnivores, Kroot Hounds, Krootox Riders and Vespids to be good units for close combat and taking objectives.
These Kroot Carnivores, Kroot Hounds, Krootox Riders and Vespids I don't want in a new book, I want them in my Tau Codex.

I'm fine with battlesuits not being better in close combat, with Kroot Carnivores, Kroot Hounds, Krootox Riders and Vespids as tools for that purpose.
   
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myUserName wrote:
ottokill wrote:
I don't play TAU but I always hear that they lack good close combat troops. Would they benefit from a monk style unit that uses fists, swords, polearms? They strike me as having the Monk vibe. What caste or maybe every caste could have their own style. Just a thought.


Yes, the faction would benefit from a new unit with new possibilities added to the player's toolset.

However it would not be what I'm interested in as a Tau player.
I'm not interested in new models, I want existing models to be worth taking into my army lists. I want Kroot Carnivores, Kroot Hounds, Krootox Riders and Vespids to be good units for close combat and taking objectives.
These Kroot Carnivores, Kroot Hounds, Krootox Riders and Vespids I don't want in a new book, I want them in my Tau Codex.

I'm fine with battlesuits not being better in close combat, with Kroot Carnivores, Kroot Hounds, Krootox Riders and Vespids as tools for that purpose.


Have you been paying attention to how GW operates lately? They don't really have an interest in making old units useable unless it's by accident.


 
   
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 Sim-Life wrote:
 Mixzremixzd wrote:
 Grimtuff wrote:
ottokill wrote:
I don't play TAU but I always hear that they lack good close combat troops.


Yes. That is a feature, not a bug.

If Tau were to ever get proper HTH troops they need to be auxiliaries, not actual Tau- but that would require GW to actually stop their Gundam fetish they currently have with Tau and actually give a damn about xeno releases for longer than a hot minute...

I second this. It'll help the game and faction a lot more if GW fleshed out their auxiliaries as a means of shoring up the T'au deficiencies.


That's a funny way of saying "undermining the faction theme". I'd rather see Auxilliaries as their own faction, GW already has a problem with maintaining the thematic elements of their armies, they don't need to be encouraged to water down one of the few armies they have that have retained their theme.


'Flog the battlesuit horse to death' is not the sole defining tau faction theme. Auxiliaries are as much h part of the faction theme and have been there since day 1.

Expand on kroot.

Ork hybrids etc, like in the old kroot codex.

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Deadnight wrote:
'Flog the battlesuit horse to death' is not the sole defining tau faction theme. Auxiliaries are as much h part of the faction theme and have been there since day 1.

Expand on kroot.

Ork hybrids etc, like in the old kroot codex.


Not sure Tau players are interested though. Or at least I'm not.

I mean I wouldn't mind Kroot getting a full release so they can operate as a solo faction (even if they are limited like Harlequins etc).
But at this point combining them with Tau makes about as much aesthetical sense as sticking in a unit of Genestealers. They don't look like the same range. (Partly this is due to those models being ancient - but they are also clearly not the same.)

Its possible a whole redesign could change that - Kroot in Tau Armour, with pulse rifles etc, something to tie them in. But that potentially just results in an ugly mess of a model.
And maybe a whole new range - with new Kroot, Vespid, Humans, Demiurg etc would somehow make a viable and aesthetically unified "Tau Auxiliaries faction".

But at the moment yeah, not a fan. I realise its throwing Kroot on the scrap heap, but I'd much rather get a Shaolin Ethereal Caste Monk squad than "look, new Kroot Hounds, just what you've been waiting for."
   
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Deadnight wrote:
 Sim-Life wrote:
 Mixzremixzd wrote:
 Grimtuff wrote:
ottokill wrote:
I don't play TAU but I always hear that they lack good close combat troops.


Yes. That is a feature, not a bug.

If Tau were to ever get proper HTH troops they need to be auxiliaries, not actual Tau- but that would require GW to actually stop their Gundam fetish they currently have with Tau and actually give a damn about xeno releases for longer than a hot minute...

I second this. It'll help the game and faction a lot more if GW fleshed out their auxiliaries as a means of shoring up the T'au deficiencies.


That's a funny way of saying "undermining the faction theme". I'd rather see Auxilliaries as their own faction, GW already has a problem with maintaining the thematic elements of their armies, they don't need to be encouraged to water down one of the few armies they have that have retained their theme.


'Flog the battlesuit horse to death' is not the sole defining tau faction theme. Auxiliaries are as much h part of the faction theme and have been there since day 1.

Expand on kroot.

Ork hybrids etc, like in the old kroot codex.


I never said anything about T'au being just battlesuits, that's a really shoddy strawman you just threw together.
Also it's pretty clear GW has no interest in expanding T'au Auxilliaries within the T'au codex. Like I said, you'd be betteroff waiting for Auxilliaries becoming their own faction in the same way that GSC interacts with the IG codex.


 
   
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 Sim-Life wrote:
Deadnight wrote:
 Sim-Life wrote:
 Mixzremixzd wrote:
 Grimtuff wrote:
ottokill wrote:
I don't play TAU but I always hear that they lack good close combat troops.


Yes. That is a feature, not a bug.

If Tau were to ever get proper HTH troops they need to be auxiliaries, not actual Tau- but that would require GW to actually stop their Gundam fetish they currently have with Tau and actually give a damn about xeno releases for longer than a hot minute...

I second this. It'll help the game and faction a lot more if GW fleshed out their auxiliaries as a means of shoring up the T'au deficiencies.


That's a funny way of saying "undermining the faction theme". I'd rather see Auxilliaries as their own faction, GW already has a problem with maintaining the thematic elements of their armies, they don't need to be encouraged to water down one of the few armies they have that have retained their theme.


'Flog the battlesuit horse to death' is not the sole defining tau faction theme. Auxiliaries are as much h part of the faction theme and have been there since day 1.

Expand on kroot.

Ork hybrids etc, like in the old kroot codex.


I never said anything about T'au being just battlesuits, that's a really shoddy strawman you just threw together.
Also it's pretty clear GW has no interest in expanding T'au Auxilliaries within the T'au codex. Like I said, you'd be betteroff waiting for Auxilliaries becoming their own faction in the same way that GSC interacts with the IG codex.


Just a miscommunication, rather than a strawman sim. Internet and tone etc.

In fairness in my reading, you did imply strongly auxiliaries were 'undermining the faction theme'. I read that as referring to auxiliaries- unless you were referring to tau in cc as 'undermining the faction theme'?

Auxiliaries have always been part of the tau theme. The other theme strongly pushed (and lately to the exclusion of others) is suits. Hence Flog the battlesuit horse to death

But sadly you're right. And I'll agree with you that gw has no interest in auciliaries. Last time gw focused on auxiliaries was back in 4th or 5th. Long time ago. They doubled down on suits with the 'big centrepiece craze' in 6th I think- can't say I was impressed.

Kroot were always my favourite unit.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/09/24 09:48:50


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 Sim-Life wrote:
myUserName wrote:
ottokill wrote:
I don't play TAU but I always hear that they lack good close combat troops. Would they benefit from a monk style unit that uses fists, swords, polearms? They strike me as having the Monk vibe. What caste or maybe every caste could have their own style. Just a thought.


Yes, the faction would benefit from a new unit with new possibilities added to the player's toolset.

However it would not be what I'm interested in as a Tau player.
I'm not interested in new models, I want existing models to be worth taking into my army lists. I want Kroot Carnivores, Kroot Hounds, Krootox Riders and Vespids to be good units for close combat and taking objectives.
These Kroot Carnivores, Kroot Hounds, Krootox Riders and Vespids I don't want in a new book, I want them in my Tau Codex.

I'm fine with battlesuits not being better in close combat, with Kroot Carnivores, Kroot Hounds, Krootox Riders and Vespids as tools for that purpose.


Have you been paying attention to how GW operates lately? They don't really have an interest in making old units useable unless it's by accident.


I don't care about any of the product provider's interests. In my answer I only formulated what I'm interested in.
   
 
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