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Hello and good evening. I pop my head in here every now and then but I haven't honestly played since 6th edition I was biggest into the game during 3rd Ed and 5th Ed. Playing BA, Necrons, Eldar during that time. I sold everything back in 6th too. Now each new edition I tend to pick things up but never assemble, sell again, buy something new, sell again and the cycle just keeps continuing. Right now I own the Beast Snaggas box unopened that I pre-orderd but everytime I look at it I'm like I don't want to play Orks even though the models are pretty cool looking.

Usually I have an army in mind but its honestly been so long I want to know if things can "work and play decently" before I spend money and the little bit of spare time I have on assembling/painting. Now I'm not like a WAAC but I don't want to play/build something that will always be tabled/curb stomped into oblivion. I don't mind uphill battles though.

So if anyone could give me a little breakdown or idea if its remotely playable it would be greatly appreciated.

Armies/themes I am contemplating/interested in are as followed:

Blood Angels - Heavy into Sanguine Guard or Death Company.(Lore wise I think Gabriel Seth is really cool)
Dark Angels - Deathwing(always thought an all terminator/dreadnought army was cool)
Death Watch - The idea behind them seems cool. Taking the best from the various factions to make one.
Grey Knights - The models haven't been updated in a while I think but I still like how they look.
Necrons - Egyptian Robits. What is not to love.
Eldar - Wraithguard, Spiritseers, Wraithlord, whatever the new giant wraith thing is. (Honestly I wish they would update the Aspect Warriors. Only Banshee's seemed to have been updated since 2000?)
Harlequins - They were really cool in 3rd edition.
T'au - Crisis suits, Broad Sides, Riptides, the even "bigger" ones?
Astra Militarum - Tempestus
Adeptus Mechanicus - Skitarii/Sicarian looking ones. (Not a big fan of the electro-priest or katophran aesthetically)

Now one thing I would like to add. I'm not big into like transports for everything or buying the biggest kits. Always turned me away from an army when everything had to have a rhino, wave serpent, raider, etc. In addition, to having to bring like multiple big expensive kits like Monoliths, Riptides, Imperial Knights, Landraiders. I have never used a flyer before though. Just never owned one.



Thank you all for your time and I hope to hear from some of you to help me decide on an army to start working on.

~Rogzor87

If you need something to scratch an itch, have you considered Kill Team? It lets you collect a few small groups of models from various factions. Depending on faction it’s not as flexible as it once was, but now it’s more catered around getting just one box of models for a team, so it might suit you better In fact.

Go with the DA (Deathwing).
Why? Because they are extremely heavy pts wise - leading to low model count.
This is great if you do indeed have little time to buil/paint. Meanwhile there is a variety of very cool looking dreadnoughts available these days.
AND you might actually get something onto the table before you lose interest & sell it all off again.

Have you considered Custodes? They're relatively cheap to get into; 2 boxes for £70 and you've got over 500pts and a few characters straight off the bat.

Among the factions the OP listed I'd avoid:

- Eldar: still with an 8th codex and lots of ancient models.
- Harlequins: army with 8 datasheets is typically overpowered or meh. Good for third or fourth army project, not as a main faction to play.
- Tau and IG: both with a 8th codex and both one dimensional with only shooting.
- Death Watch: it's very hard to balance them.
- Grey Knights: psyker spam is also hard to balance, it's another faction that is typically overpowered or meh.

I'd suggest:

- Necrons: despite what many players say they are a quite balanced army with multiple viable styles of playing, they're not utterly expensive and they're among the easiest ones to paint.
- Blood Angels/Dark Angels: typical SM armies that can also go full skew without problems, they'll never be really bad.
- Ad Mech: while their codex is currently too strong and will likely be toned down significantly soon enough, they're a fun army to play and to paint. There's no need to spam stuff or to put everything in transports, that works also for Necrons and SM armies.

If I may ask, why don't you want to play orks, considering that you already have a solid base to start and you do like those models?

 Blackie wrote:
Among the factions the OP listed I'd avoid:

- Eldar: still with... lots of ancient models.

One million percent this, a huge portion of Eldar models are just so out of date. They just can't compare with the quality of newer kits, their stuff isn't as crisp as more updated armies, the models that do look slightly nicer are from the dreaded finecast era so they have all the problems that came along with that. I know a full Eldar update is unlikely, at least any time soon, but I'd hesitate to start them at this point in time unless you really love the faction.

It's not only a pure aesthetic thing, full updates can completely change the units that they're going to replace, making older miniatures obsolete. For example new ork buggies, artillery and ghaz flat out phased out their older counterparts. Primaris didn't remove the firstborn line but they outclassed it in every possible way.

 Blackie wrote:
It's not only a pure aesthetic thing, full updates can completely change the units that they're going to replace, making older miniatures obsolete. For example new ork buggies, artillery and ghaz flat out phased out their older counterparts. Primaris didn't remove the firstborn line but they outclassed it in every possible way.

Didn't even think of this, but yeah I have a couple models that just don't have rules anymore.

Necrons - Great and balanced faction, very resilient so they're a good way to play while learning a new edition. No need for a transport.

Eldar - Eldar are in a tough spot but their wraith units are the better ones. You'll have a hard time if you're not using wave serpents to move your Wraithguard / Wraithblades around.

Harlequins - They were on top for a bit in 9th, powerful army with a small unit count, people very familiar with the rules can do very, very well with them.

 Blackie wrote:
It's not only a pure aesthetic thing, full updates can completely change the units that they're going to replace, making older miniatures obsolete. For example new ork buggies, artillery and ghaz flat out phased out their older counterparts. Primaris didn't remove the firstborn line but they outclassed it in every possible way.

If that's true then where's my Primaris drop pod?

ccs wrote:

 Blackie wrote:
It's not only a pure aesthetic thing, full updates can completely change the units that they're going to replace, making older miniatures obsolete. For example new ork buggies, artillery and ghaz flat out phased out their older counterparts. Primaris didn't remove the firstborn line but they outclassed it in every possible way.

If that's true

Spoiler:

(it's not)

then where's my Primaris drop pod?

Yeah, look at any tournament list and it's going to have vanguard vets and devastators. They'll probably have the new dreadnoughts and primaris characters, but there's still plenty of older models. I will say intercessors have essentially phased out tactical marines though.

Flinty wrote:If you need something to scratch an itch, have you considered Kill Team? It lets you collect a few small groups of models from various factions. Depending on faction it’s not as flexible as it once was, but now it’s more catered around getting just one box of models for a team, so it might suit you better In fact.

I just moved from Maryland to Florida in July. I'm just looking to do something I made a couple new friends and one plays thousand sons. Looking to have a full on army to play with/against them.

Found a few LGS but haven't seen anyone playing or to chat with to get an idea of how the community is the times I went.

Blackie wrote:Among the factions the OP listed I'd avoid:

- Eldar: still with an 8th codex and lots of ancient models.


If I may ask, why don't you want to play orks, considering that you already have a solid base to start and you do like those models?

For the Eldar part I do wish Aspect Warriors got updates like I said in the OP. Think A lot of people would jump back to Eldar if that happened.

On the Orks part I look at the box and browse the rest of the model line. Other than the Snaggas I'm just like meh to them.

 Valkyrie wrote:
Have you considered Custodes? They're relatively cheap to get into; 2 boxes for £70 and you've got over 500pts and a few characters straight off the bat.

I looked at the model line and just not stuff I want to assemble and paint. Not a fan of the models. Though low model count and decently priced is a huge plus.

I'd say - none of the above. Do a custom chapter with black/red color theme, that way you can cherrypick the visual elements from DA/BA/Deathwatch ranges you like (or even other ranges, like Egyptian Thousand Sons terminators) and dump the bits you hate. Then you could also use the rules you want - say, Deathwatch are cool but 90% of their rules are utter garbage because writers seem to hate them and nerf them in every single book they had so far except 8th edition Codex. As ccs said, start with terminators, they are easy to paint thanks to being big and point dense (preferably Tartaros or Cataphracts, these are new, nice sculpts). Then, after you feel more confident, add others. If you like Sanguinary Guard look and have custom chapter, you can simply field them in DW or DA armies too as Vanguard Veterans, just invent justification you like (wearing likeness of old chapter heroes?) and roll with it.

ccs wrote:Go with the DA (Deathwing).
Why? Because they are extremely heavy pts wise - leading to low model count.
This is great if you do indeed have little time to buil/paint. Meanwhile there is a variety of very cool looking dreadnoughts available these days.
AND you might actually get something onto the table before you lose interest & sell it all off again.

The LMC of Deathwing is a huge plus. I like the models and Dreadnoughts too. It's also why I mentioned like a Sanguinary Guard BA army and Grey Knights(I know they could do like 3 models in 2k back in 6th if FULLY decked out. Obviously not a good idea but low model count for sure.)

I don't want to lose interest and sell so that's why I am here asking about armies instead of just buying and sitting on them.

The Red Hobbit wrote:Necrons - Great and balanced faction, very resilient so they're a good way to play while learning a new edition. No need for a transport.

Eldar - Eldar are in a tough spot but their wraith units are the better ones. You'll have a hard time if you're not using wave serpents to move your Wraithguard / Wraithblades around.

Now I'm not against transports entirely. Just not really wanting one for EVERY unit in the army. If I had 8 infantry units needing 8 rhinos/razorbacks, devilfish, wave serpents was immensely costly ontop of other vehicles you wanted for Heavy support and such too.

Just felt like it was who could afford more tanks/vehicles won. I didnt really enjoy that play style in 3rd, 5th, 6th editions. So want to avoid it on my end.

I would just collect cool marine stuff I like, with the idea of making deathwatch because I always thought it would be cool.

Deathwing is the answer! Low model count, solid rules, good look and classic background. You can sprinkle in Ravenwing bikes and standard Greenwing for variety.

Welcome to the Rock!

TangoTwoBravo wrote:
Deathwing is the answer! Low model count, solid rules, good look and classic background. You can sprinkle in Ravenwing bikes and standard Greenwing for variety.

Welcome to the Rock!

I ordered the DA supplement codex and SM codex. I have 2 days off work next week so will probably go to a LGS and see if they have a box of Deathwing Terminators to pickup then.

Is there a guide/forum thread moreso dedicated to Deathwing?

 Rogzor87 wrote:

TangoTwoBravo wrote:
Deathwing is the answer! Low model count, solid rules, good look and classic background. You can sprinkle in Ravenwing bikes and standard Greenwing for variety.

Welcome to the Rock!

I ordered the DA supplement codex and SM codex. I have 2 days off work next week so will probably go to a LGS and see if they have a box of Deathwing Terminators to pickup then.

Is there a guide/forum thread moreso dedicated to Deathwing?

I assume somebodies written something on Da/DW in the 40k Tactics forum. It's a few topics above General here.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/796005.page

Bit low but still on 1st page of tactics subforum.

ccs wrote:

 Blackie wrote:
It's not only a pure aesthetic thing, full updates can completely change the units that they're going to replace, making older miniatures obsolete. For example new ork buggies, artillery and ghaz flat out phased out their older counterparts. Primaris didn't remove the firstborn line but they outclassed it in every possible way.

If that's true

Spoiler:

(it's not)

then where's my Primaris drop pod?

You don't need drop pods when pretty much everything has either high M stat, native deepstrike, outflank or deepstrike/outflank by stratagem .

Assault intercessors have none of those. Nor do blade veterans who also have lousy M stat to boot.

 Rogzor87 wrote:
Just felt like it was who could afford more tanks/vehicles won. I didnt really enjoy that play style in 3rd, 5th, 6th editions. So want to avoid it on my end.

You're in luck then because dumb damage stat inflation made vehicles paper tigers in 9th edition. Too easy to kill now.

And again, if you want something that "work and play decently" don't do DA. They have broken rules and are first in line to be nerfed. Do a custom chapter, then you can use DA rules for the 9th edition and when they are inevitably drawn back for 10th you can switch to another supplement instead of being locked to GW rule writer whim. 9th edition gak book killed my enjoyment of Deathwatch, you don't want the same thing to happen.

Commissar Yarrork wrote:
I will say intercessors have essentially phased out tactical marines though.

Well armed Tacs will still out-damage many targets (especially high-value ones) over Intercessors, and now have the same defensive profile. The only real edge Intercessors have is Primaris specific Stratagems, imo.

 Blackie wrote:

ccs wrote:

 Blackie wrote:
It's not only a pure aesthetic thing, full updates can completely change the units that they're going to replace, making older miniatures obsolete. For example new ork buggies, artillery and ghaz flat out phased out their older counterparts. Primaris didn't remove the firstborn line but they outclassed it in every possible way.

If that's true

Spoiler:

(it's not)

then where's my Primaris drop pod?

You don't need drop pods when pretty much everything has either high M stat, native deepstrike, outflank or deepstrike/outflank by stratagem .

We'll just have to disagree on that.

Now would anyone here help me understand on how to build a list? I last played in 6th edition and not really understanding these detachments and such.

I mentioned before I picked DA/Deathwing so obviously I want to focus mostly on the terminators, Dreadnoughts and maybe a couple other things.

I don't even know what the "standard/norm" army point size is.

The quick answers are:

2000 points is a common amount.

Just start out with one detatchment, a Battalion. That will be the closest thing to what you might be used to from 6th edition. In addition to being pretty "standard", it has quite a bit of room for Elite choices like Terminators and Dreadnoughts.

Happy hunting!

 Rogzor87 wrote:
Now would anyone here help me understand on how to build a list? I last played in 6th edition and not really understanding these detachments and such.

I mentioned before I picked DA/Deathwing so obviously I want to focus mostly on the terminators, Dreadnoughts and maybe a couple other things.

I don't even know what the "standard/norm" army point size is.

Most of my pick-up games are at 1500 to 2000 points, but I have certainly played at 1000 points with newer players as well.

If you are thinking Deathwing then if you pick up three boxes of Deathwing Terminators you will have around 1000 points. Detachments would be new concept for you coming from 6th - basically you have a menu of Force Organization Charts. You basically "buy" Detachments with your pool of Command Points (CPs). Those CPs are fixed to your game level - you get six CPs at 1000 points, 12 from 1001 to 2000. Some Detachments refund the CPs if your Warlord is in that Detachment. CPs can be used for upgrades and for Stratagems in battle.

For Deathwing, you could start with a Vanguard Detachment at 1000 points. A Vanguard needs one HQ and three Elite slots, with up to six Elites slots and up to two of Troops, Fast Attack and Heavy Support. Build two of the boxes as Deathwing Terminator Squads for your first two Elites slots (they are around 200 points, up to 230 if you trick them out). If you keep the Vanguard Detachment pure Deathwing or Inner Circle those two Squads will have the Objective Secured Ability which helps in games. With the third box you could make a Deathwing Terminator Captain or Belial (HQ), a two-man Deathwing Command Squad, a Deathwing Apothecary, and a Deathwing Ancient (your third Elite slot). This would be around 800 points and a legal Vanguard Detachment. You could then put in a Dreadnought with Rites of Initiation to make it Deathwing to get to 1000 points. A perk as a Deathwing force is that if your Warlord is in the Detachment you get the 3 CP refunded.

Ezekiel also makes a great HQ for a Deathwing Vanguard. If you have the Librarian that came in the 6th Ed starter set then you have Ezekiel already!

To get to 1500 points you could add a Patrol of Greenwing to give you more bodies and heavy weapons.

Hope this helps!

TangoTwoBravo wrote:


Most of my pick-up games are at 1500 to 2000 points, but I have certainly played at 1000 points with newer players as well.

If you are thinking Deathwing then if you pick up three boxes of Deathwing Terminators you will have around 1000 points. Detachments would be new concept for you coming from 6th - basically you have a menu of Force Organization Charts. You basically "buy" Detachments with your pool of Command Points (CPs). Those CPs are fixed to your game level - you get six CPs at 1000 points, 12 from 1001 to 2000. Some Detachments refund the CPs if your Warlord is in that Detachment. CPs can be used for upgrades and for Stratagems in battle.

For Deathwing, you could start with a Vanguard Detachment at 1000 points. A Vanguard needs one HQ and three Elite slots, with up to six Elites slots and up to two of Troops, Fast Attack and Heavy Support. Build two of the boxes as Deathwing Terminator Squads for your first two Elites slots (they are around 200 points, up to 230 if you trick them out). If you keep the Vanguard Detachment pure Deathwing or Inner Circle those two Squads will have the Objective Secured Ability which helps in games. With the third box you could make a Deathwing Terminator Captain or Belial (HQ), a two-man Deathwing Command Squad, a Deathwing Apothecary, and a Deathwing Ancient (your third Elite slot). This would be around 800 points and a legal Vanguard Detachment. You could then put in a Dreadnought with Rites of Initiation to make it Deathwing to get to 1000 points. A perk as a Deathwing force is that if your Warlord is in the Detachment you get the 3 CP refunded.

Ezekiel also makes a great HQ for a Deathwing Vanguard. If you have the Librarian that came in the 6th Ed starter set then you have Ezekiel already!

To get to 1500 points you could add a Patrol of Greenwing to give you more bodies and heavy weapons.

Hope this helps!

That helps a bunch thank you!