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Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




I recently picked up a couple of codex's so I could familiarise myself with the new 40k universe since so much has changed with 8th and 9th editions. This is purely for the lore rather than for playing the game, but I appreciate that the Codex's exist for game purposes. However, they also provide background information on the various factions and establish the lore around them. Given the wealth of writers GW have available to them, I can't understand how absolutely abysmal the lore is written in the codex's.

I just stared in on the necrons and in the first section they start talking about how the Necrons are a mysteious race and much of what we know is only legend. No issue with that, but then they go on to say 'Legend has it'. 'Legend Tells', 'Legend suggests...' at least 4 times in the first few hundred words. Look, you only need to say it once. We get it, we understand, we've twigged, we've figured it out, you're talking about the Legend of the Necrons. - It's like they went round the office and said to everyone, write a paragraph about the legend of the necrons, we'll put them all in a bag, and draw 10 out for the codex.

And the use of Yet... this has been a long standing problem with writing in GW products, saying something is one thing, then saying it is something else. The water was wet, yet it was dry.... arrrgggh. no. Thats awful awful writing. In the first few hundred words they use 'Yet' multiple times.

I don't understand how they can have professional writers and still turn that sloppy lazy writing out. Its been 20 odd years since I started reading 40k stuff and this garbage just has not improved. I've not been able to get the first page of the Codex as this is just Heresy to Literature.

Sorry for the rant but after all this time, I just expect better.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/11/07 12:19:29


 
   
Made in us
Hurr! Ogryn Bone 'Ead!





I guess GW get what they pay for to an extent. And we know that for at least some jobs they don't pay well at all.

Personally I don't have a big issue with the fluff, at least the fluff I am interested in reading. I don't go in with high expectations though.
   
Made in gb
Ship's Officer





The Shire(s)

Having been looking at my Imperial Guard 3.5 edition codex a lot recently for hobby inspiration, I think the writing has actually declined since then. There were a lot more in-universe perspectives in the older codices. As an example, the IG 3.5 codex had an entire page explaining various Imperial Guard slang words. There is just generally less purple prose.

The HH FW books have kept up that 3rd and 4th edition feel in their writing style moreso IMO.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/11/07 14:38:50


 ChargerIIC wrote:
If algae farm paste with a little bit of your grandfather in it isn't Grimdark I don't know what is.
 
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut




Beside the more numerous "in universe perspectives" found in 3rd and early fourth edition (can't speak for the older one's). The writing style in codex has been, in my opinion, very consistent and generally ok in terms of quality. Unlike, 3rd edition though, we actually have information about the faction from a perspective that isn't always imperial which is welcome. It was a bit odd that in my 3rd edition Eldar codex, I had about as much quotation from Imperial inquisitors and magos than eldars (usually always Eldrad ). In the end, there was very little fluff in the older codex which were, in total, with all the datasheets and how to paint guides, shorter than the fluff section of current codex. Now, I actually have three paragraphs (often more) of fluff description for each of my units and about as much for each of my 6 major subfactions. Once upon a time, I was lucky to have more than three sentences about some of my units and subfactions. The prose in the new fluff (and old fluff to at times) was sometime ponderous if only because 40K is basically everything ramped up at times 11 which can make for lengthy bombastic description of Space Marines being really, really, really, really...really, really super strong and good and awesome at killing stuff. In other words, it's easy not to sound repetitive when you don't write anything of value about your factions. The epidemy of repetitive and overly detailed for nothing fluff was 5th edition in my opinion. It was scaled back a bit in the more recent one's to leave more place for artwork in the newer codex (another thing sorely missing from older codex).

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/11/07 15:21:31


 
   
Made in us
Storm Trooper with Maglight






New Hampshire

epronovost wrote:
Once upon a time, I was lucky to have more than three sentences about some of my units and subfactions.


Unfortunately this is what the codex's are going back to. I liked how 5th had a page dedicated to each unit entry, now you just get a couple of sentences on the datasheet. I personally miss the directed lore for each unit.

"Elysians: For when you absolutely, positively, must have 100% casualties" 
   
Made in gr
Storm Trooper with Maglight





It may be that I was more easily impressed 20 years ago because I was a stupid teenager and the setting was completely new to me but I also have the feeling that the writing has vastly declined since the days of Codex Imperialis and later, 3rd Edition.
One thing that to me sticks out like a sore thumb are the uninspired monosyllabic Imperial names. It's always Guardsman Gex, or Stren, or Kun or whathaveyou.
Give me names with more believable etymologies, please.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/11/07 16:47:44


 
   
Made in at
Longtime Dakkanaut




The care that goes into lore sections of codices has massively declined in 8th and especially in 9th edition.
They replaced it with fancy modern artwork and hardcover books.....it's really sad.

Psychic awakening was the bottom of the barrel though. The writing in those books was abysmal. A total train wreck.
   
Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter





yeah 8th felt like it was mostly just a C&P job, with MAAAAYBE 2 sentences or so desrciring the "post cadia reality" for the faction

9th well... they're cutting back on fluff (I blame that GW's been talking to the tourny folks for 9th)

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut






BrianDavion wrote:
9th well... they're cutting back on fluff (I blame that GW's been talking to the tourny folks for 9th)

That'd be a great hypothesis if the bestiary sections hadn't been replaced by Crusade content and pages upon pages of sub-factions, warlord traits, relics, and stratagems.
   
Made in at
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Lord Damocles wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
9th well... they're cutting back on fluff (I blame that GW's been talking to the tourny folks for 9th)

That'd be a great hypothesis if the bestiary sections hadn't been replaced by Crusade content and pages upon pages of sub-factions, warlord traits, relics, and stratagems.


But why replaced, they could just add pages. At these price points a few extra pages lore like proper unit descriptions and short stories can't be too much to ask imo....
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut






Tiberias wrote:
 Lord Damocles wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
9th well... they're cutting back on fluff (I blame that GW's been talking to the tourny folks for 9th)

That'd be a great hypothesis if the bestiary sections hadn't been replaced by Crusade content and pages upon pages of sub-factions, warlord traits, relics, and stratagems.


But why replaced, they could just add pages. At these price points a few extra pages lore like proper unit descriptions and short stories can't be too much to ask imo....

Ah, yes; the tournament lobby and their well known stance against adding extra pages to books..?
   
Made in at
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Lord Damocles wrote:
Tiberias wrote:
 Lord Damocles wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
9th well... they're cutting back on fluff (I blame that GW's been talking to the tourny folks for 9th)

That'd be a great hypothesis if the bestiary sections hadn't been replaced by Crusade content and pages upon pages of sub-factions, warlord traits, relics, and stratagems.


But why replaced, they could just add pages. At these price points a few extra pages lore like proper unit descriptions and short stories can't be too much to ask imo....

Ah, yes; the tournament lobby and their well known stance against adding extra pages to books..?


That's not really a thing is it?
   
Made in de
Contagious Dreadnought of Nurgle




For CSM I can say that from 3.5 to 8th the fluff section got more and more room, though already 6th edition copied a lot of 4the edition and 8th edition copied that again, adding some lines about the Post Rift time. More interesting are usually things like timelines, renegade warbands, legions and stuff like that that change every time. With CSM you can also see influences of the HH series with the Heresy getting more room in the Codex.

Artworks also make a similar development, GW repeats them every time with every edition adding a couple featuring the new units. I guess by 15th edition most of the pages will be made up of reused Codex Covers .

I can't really add to the OP's criticism about the quality of writing, I guess it gets lost in translation anyway and personally I'm studying the fluff of my Codex with every new edition despite realizing that most of it is copied .

Fun Fact: the pages about the legions in the Traitor Legions supplement from 7th editions are straight C&P from 3.5
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





UK

 Salted Diamond wrote:


I liked how 5th had a page dedicated to each unit entry, now you just get a couple of sentences on the datasheet. I personally miss the directed lore for each unit.


I don't think the current codexes are badly written, but I do miss that too.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/11/08 20:00:43


https://www.flickr.com/photos/dreadblade/
Chaos Knights - Ultramarines - Thousand Sons - Grey Knights 
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




I think part of the problem with that is there are now so many types of units. If they wrote properly for each one the codex would be huge.
   
Made in gb
Lit By the Flames of Prospero






I think the Marine Codex works fine in this regard. It highlights the Chapter offices (Captain, Chaplain etc), the Codex roles (Battleline, Fire Support) and talks about the Company structures. The Chapters get their blurbs alongside a page of Successors and there are even a few Warzone pages to give you ideas of what's going on.
I do miss the timeline pages but in all fairness reading the same stuff every new book gets dull. Oh wow, really the Red Corsairs attacked Vilamnus? I never knew that in the like 6 Codexes and the actual literal novel written about it.
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






Stephen1974 wrote:
I recently picked up a couple of codex's so I could familiarise myself with the new 40k universe since so much has changed with 8th and 9th editions. This is purely for the lore rather than for playing the game, but I appreciate that the Codex's exist for game purposes. However, they also provide background information on the various factions and establish the lore around them. Given the wealth of writers GW have available to them, I can't understand how absolutely abysmal the lore is written in the codex's.

I just stared in on the necrons and in the first section they start talking about how the Necrons are a mysteious race and much of what we know is only legend. No issue with that, but then they go on to say 'Legend has it'. 'Legend Tells', 'Legend suggests...' at least 4 times in the first few hundred words. Look, you only need to say it once. We get it, we understand, we've twigged, we've figured it out, you're talking about the Legend of the Necrons. - It's like they went round the office and said to everyone, write a paragraph about the legend of the necrons, we'll put them all in a bag, and draw 10 out for the codex.

And the use of Yet... this has been a long standing problem with writing in GW products, saying something is one thing, then saying it is something else. The water was wet, yet it was dry.... arrrgggh. no. Thats awful awful writing. In the first few hundred words they use 'Yet' multiple times.

I don't understand how they can have professional writers and still turn that sloppy lazy writing out. Its been 20 odd years since I started reading 40k stuff and this garbage just has not improved. I've not been able to get the first page of the Codex as this is just Heresy to Literature.

Sorry for the rant but after all this time, I just expect better.



Pay Mcdonalds wages, get Mcdonalds quality.

"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"

"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"

"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"

"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"  
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




McDonalds pays surprisingly well.

I don't think pay is the issue. People don't go to GW for the pay, they go because they love the hobby and im sure those involved at the upper levels of the game, in the creation of the rules and lore etc etc are not on low wages.

That said, if none of them have the talent for writing then it may be that decent writers wont want to do it because of poor money, but knowing a couple of authors, and lots of aspiring authors, they'd bite the hand off of anyone who offered them money to do a bit of work. Its something they can add to a CV, a bit of money in the pocket, an opportunity for future work.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/11/07 23:50:08


 
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






Stephen1974 wrote:
McDonalds pays surprisingly well.

I don't think pay is the issue. People don't go to GW for the pay, they go because they love the hobby and im sure those involved at the upper levels of the game, in the creation of the rules and lore etc etc are not on low wages.

That said, if none of them have the talent for writing then it may be that decent writers wont want to do it because of poor money, but knowing a couple of authors, and lots of aspiring authors, they'd bite the hand off of anyone who offered them money to do a bit of work. Its something they can add to a CV, a bit of money in the pocket, an opportunity for future work.


No, it doesn't. lol. GW was paying their lead game designer for Titanicus 15k pounds per year, which works out to...20,235$/year gross? Roughly 10$/hour? the Mcdonalds across the street from me is advertising 15 bucks an hour starting to flip burgers.

Every one single codex GW sells pays for 6hrs of a codex writer's salary. How many hours you think go into the creation of a codex? 120 on the outside end? So GW sells 20 books and theyve paid for the rules design.

That's a fething joke. And yes, I understand that every passion job operates like this - loads of hand waving and "Do it for the exposure" and they rely on a steady rate of burning through people hoping to find enough people who are a fan of the IP and are willing to work wages that no human can have a functional life/family/living situation doing.

And also, it's fething uncredited now, presumably because enough of the people who play the games are fething cretins who call in bomb threats and doxx/swat codex authors for giving their favorite units rules they don't like. There's no "Doing it for the exposure" hmm lets see who authored my drukhari codex, ah right it's "Warhammer Studio" - millennial moms these days, giving such crazy names to their kids.

"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"

"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"

"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"

"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"  
   
Made in gb
Lit By the Flames of Prospero






@Stephen1974
Sorry, can I just ask why you would expect mass-market products that explicitly exist to give background info need to be literary masterpieces? They aren't story repositories, they're basically just essays for 40k background.

Also, you read one Codex and aren't going to read the rest, because? There are multiple people on the design teams and it might just be that Necrons got the short straw when it came to whoever wrote the background section.

@scotsman
I know the stuff about James was awful, really it was, but do you also remember the bit where he put out a second part to the story where he explicitly said that he doesn't know what the situation is like with GW now and that people/friends within the company had taken umbrage with his story, which he apologised for IIRC.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/11/08 00:24:48


 
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




 the_scotsman wrote:
Stephen1974 wrote:
McDonalds pays surprisingly well.

I don't think pay is the issue. People don't go to GW for the pay, they go because they love the hobby and im sure those involved at the upper levels of the game, in the creation of the rules and lore etc etc are not on low wages.



No, it doesn't. lol. GW was paying their lead game designer for Titanicus 15k pounds per year, which works out to...20,235$/year gross? Roughly 10$/hour? the Mcdonalds across the street from me is advertising 15 bucks an hour starting to flip burgers.

.


Then their lead game designer doesnt work full time then because that would be completely illegal over here. Several thousand below the minimum wage threshold. Maybe they were paying that many years ago, but not in the last decade. - Just went looking for it, he was being paid £20k. Depending on where you live in the UK thats not necessarily terrible money, but its not great either. DOwn south you would struggle as a single person on that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Gert wrote:
@Stephen1974
Sorry, can I just ask why you would expect mass-market products that explicitly exist to give background info need to be literary masterpieces? They aren't story repositories, they're basically just essays for 40k background.

Also, you read one Codex and aren't going to read the rest, because? There are multiple people on the design teams and it might just be that Necrons got the short straw when it came to whoever wrote the background section.


I've not read one codex, I just used that as an example. I could do the same with the space marine codex - and if I still had them, many other codexs going back over the last 20 years. You see the same in much of the literature from BL as well. How many times do you need a description of the warp in the same book? and the Yet issue has spread its infection all over the place.

They dont need to be literary masterpieces, just GCSE english lit standard would be fine, and this isn't a mass market product, this is an IP developed over several decades in a company founded by two professional writers. Mass market is a term generally used for products that are produced very quickly to meet a high volume of demand. That isnt the case here. They might be produced in large numbers, but the development can take a significant amount of time, they should be able to do better, especially from people who are supposed to be fans of their product.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/11/08 20:13:39


 
   
Made in gb
Ship's Officer





The Shire(s)

Stephen1974 wrote:
 the_scotsman wrote:
Stephen1974 wrote:
McDonalds pays surprisingly well.

I don't think pay is the issue. People don't go to GW for the pay, they go because they love the hobby and im sure those involved at the upper levels of the game, in the creation of the rules and lore etc etc are not on low wages.



No, it doesn't. lol. GW was paying their lead game designer for Titanicus 15k pounds per year, which works out to...20,235$/year gross? Roughly 10$/hour? the Mcdonalds across the street from me is advertising 15 bucks an hour starting to flip burgers.

.


Then their lead game designer doesnt work full time then because that would be completely illegal over here. Several thousand below the minimum wage threshold. Maybe they were paying that many years ago, but not in the last decade.


Well, the yearly salary for working 37.5 hours per week (full time) at 2021 UK minimum wage of £8.91 is £17375.50.

The impression I get is this was a few years ago. In 2017, when the minimum wage was £7.50 per hour, the yearly wage at 37.5 hours per week was £14625.

In other words, £15k is not unreasonable full-time as recently as 4 years ago, and is only about £2k off the mark with the current minimum.

I have assumed that the lead designer would be over 25, the wages could be lower otherwise. Also note full time work is generally defined as 35 or greater hours worked per week, but 37.5 is about average and common in contracts.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/11/08 01:10:51


 ChargerIIC wrote:
If algae farm paste with a little bit of your grandfather in it isn't Grimdark I don't know what is.
 
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




We generally work off of a 40 hour week in the UK, its largely only council or places run on behalf of the council that still do 37.5 hrs as full time.
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






Stephen1974 wrote:
 the_scotsman wrote:
Stephen1974 wrote:
McDonalds pays surprisingly well.

I don't think pay is the issue. People don't go to GW for the pay, they go because they love the hobby and im sure those involved at the upper levels of the game, in the creation of the rules and lore etc etc are not on low wages.



No, it doesn't. lol. GW was paying their lead game designer for Titanicus 15k pounds per year, which works out to...20,235$/year gross? Roughly 10$/hour? the Mcdonalds across the street from me is advertising 15 bucks an hour starting to flip burgers.

.


Then their lead game designer doesnt work full time then because that would be completely illegal over here. Several thousand below the minimum wage threshold. Maybe they were paying that many years ago, but not in the last decade. - Just went looking for it, he was being paid £20k. Depending on where you live in the UK thats not necessarily terrible money, but its not great either. DOwn south you would struggle as a single person on that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Gert wrote:
@Stephen1974
Sorry, can I just ask why you would expect mass-market products that explicitly exist to give background info need to be literary masterpieces? They aren't story repositories, they're basically just essays for 40k background.

Also, you read one Codex and aren't going to read the rest, because? There are multiple people on the design teams and it might just be that Necrons got the short straw when it came to whoever wrote the background section.


I've not read one codex, I just used that as an example. I could do the same with the space marine codex - and if I still had them, many other codexs going back over the last 20 years. You see the same in much of the literature from BL as well. How many times do you need a description of the warp in the same book? and the Yet issue has spread its infection all over the place.

They dont need to be literary masterpieces, just GCSE english lit standard would be fine, and this isn't a mass market product, this is an IP developed over several decades in a company founded by two professional writers. Mass market is a term generally used for products that are produced very quickly to meet a high volume of demand. That isnt the case here. They might be produced in large numbers, but the development can take a significant amount of time, they should be able to do better, especially from people who are supposed to be fans of their product.


Why? it's uncredited, horribly paid, obviously rushed as feth work (just look at how many hilariously obvious rules writing errors get found in the hours following a book getting leaked online)

hell most of the text is just recycled from previous codexes. I could probably go through and look at my 5E, 7E and 9E DE dexes and just find the same passages, slightly edited to switch Dark Eldar out for Drukhari and just re-used whole cloth, written by who knows originally.

take a creative person, give them an impossible deadline, pay them right on the edge of minimum wage, salaried of course so the overtime you basically require them to work is unpaid, then don't credit them for their work and hope "Passion for the Setting" makes up for it - you'll get the exact level of quality you see in GW codexes.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/11/08 20:14:19


"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"

"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"

"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"

"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"  
   
Made in us
Daemonic Dreadnought




The dark hollows of Kentucky

5th edition? There’s two whole paragraphs of the Night Lords lore in the 8th edition CSM codex that are verbatim from the 2nd edition Chaos Codex, and another that only slightly alters another. Half of another is lifted straight from 3.5. The reason that the new codexes sound just like the old ones is because gw just keeps reusing the exact same stuff.
   
Made in gb
Ship's Officer





The Shire(s)

Stephen1974 wrote:
We generally work off of a 40 hour week in the UK, its largely only council or places run on behalf of the council that still do 37.5 hrs as full time.


ONS data suggests the average (pre-COVID) hovers pretty consistently around 37 hours/week for full time workers. It has been lower since the pandemic.

Edit: the above may be referring to hours worked after leave or other absences are deducted, I can't access the original dataset to scrutinise their definitions from my phone, so I cannot check. If it does reduce the hours worked compared to contracted hours, then Stephen1974 is likely correct and I apologise and retract this post.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/11/08 03:28:56


 ChargerIIC wrote:
If algae farm paste with a little bit of your grandfather in it isn't Grimdark I don't know what is.
 
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




 Haighus wrote:
Stephen1974 wrote:
We generally work off of a 40 hour week in the UK, its largely only council or places run on behalf of the council that still do 37.5 hrs as full time.


ONS data suggests the average (pre-COVID) hovers pretty consistently around 37 hours/week for full time workers. It has been lower since the pandemic.

Edit: the above may be referring to hours worked after leave or other absences are deducted, I can't access the original dataset to scrutinise their definitions from my phone, so I cannot check. If it does reduce the hours worked compared to contracted hours, then Stephen1974 is likely correct and I apologise and retract this post.


You may be right. When you take in to account government / council work (nhs etc biggest employer and all that) it probably is 37.5, but I think outside of government/council work its closer to 40.

Doesnt really matter though, its not exactly a big difference at the end of the day.
   
Made in de
Terrifying Doombull






Nuremberg

I mean the other side of it is for the most part the creative work in GW products is done, and has been done for a long time. They're a huge corporation now, you don't get to poddle off and come up with the exciting stuff that makes creative endeavor worth doing, nah, you get to repeat the greatest hits of the previous generation and make it look more impressive with a bigger production value. Same stuff that happens with movies and all sorts of things - GW paid for this "IP" and they're not going to let someone potentially wreck it by having NEW IDEAS, are they? So I can imagine it's a pretty grim job with little creativity putting these books together, and the more imaginative you are probably the more soul destroying it is.

That said, it's not like the GW game materials have ever been high literature. Sometimes decent, sometimes awful. I think the older stuff was better, but not by a huge amount.

   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





Stephen1974 wrote:
 Haighus wrote:
Stephen1974 wrote:
We generally work off of a 40 hour week in the UK, its largely only council or places run on behalf of the council that still do 37.5 hrs as full time.


ONS data suggests the average (pre-COVID) hovers pretty consistently around 37 hours/week for full time workers. It has been lower since the pandemic.

Edit: the above may be referring to hours worked after leave or other absences are deducted, I can't access the original dataset to scrutinise their definitions from my phone, so I cannot check. If it does reduce the hours worked compared to contracted hours, then Stephen1974 is likely correct and I apologise and retract this post.


You may be right. When you take in to account government / council work (nhs etc biggest employer and all that) it probably is 37.5, but I think outside of government/council work its closer to 40.

Doesnt really matter though, its not exactly a big difference at the end of the day.


Speaking as someone who has done both (different civil engineering firms, not government work) I strongly disagree! An extra half hour a day can feel like murder on a Monday

On topic, it's a real shame that the codex fluff sections are so poor, when Black Library has demonstrated quite well that 40k can be turned into amazing books (plenty of stinkers too mind). Why not pay ADB or Chris Wraight for a few hours of their time? Ah yes, money. I was gobsmacked when that story came out about lead designers at GW and the salary. It seems like absolute pittance when GW has been making record profits for the 4-5 years (whenever the new guy took over and released 8th edition 40k) It really shouldn't be hard for Nottingham to hire 4 new staff on a competitive wage. Two new writers to come up with competent prose and 2 new editors to proof read said writing and the rules sections. But then, this is why I'm not a millionaire CEO...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/11/09 10:05:27


 
   
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 Fergie0044 wrote:
Stephen1974 wrote:
 Haighus wrote:
Stephen1974 wrote:
We generally work off of a 40 hour week in the UK, its largely only council or places run on behalf of the council that still do 37.5 hrs as full time.


ONS data suggests the average (pre-COVID) hovers pretty consistently around 37 hours/week for full time workers. It has been lower since the pandemic.

Edit: the above may be referring to hours worked after leave or other absences are deducted, I can't access the original dataset to scrutinise their definitions from my phone, so I cannot check. If it does reduce the hours worked compared to contracted hours, then Stephen1974 is likely correct and I apologise and retract this post.


You may be right. When you take in to account government / council work (nhs etc biggest employer and all that) it probably is 37.5, but I think outside of government/council work its closer to 40.

Doesnt really matter though, its not exactly a big difference at the end of the day.


Speaking as someone who has done both (different civil engineering firms, not government work) I strongly disagree! An extra half hour a day can feel like murder on a Monday

On topic, it's a real shame that the codex fluff sections are so poor, when Black Library has demonstrated quite well that 40k can be turned into amazing books (plenty of stinkers too mind). Why not pay ADB or Chris Wraight for a few hours of their time? Ah yes, money. I was gobsmacked when that story came out about lead designers at GW and the salary. It seems like absolute pittance when GW has been making record profits for the 4-5 years (whenever the new guy took over and released 8th edition 40k) It really shouldn't be hard for Nottingham to hire 4 new staff on a competitive wage. Two new writers to come up with competent prose and 2 new editors to proof read said writing and the rules sections. But then, this is why I'm not a millionaire CEO...


It's super weird, it seems like for all the effort we go through to automate these ultra-cheap minimum wage jobs like grocery store cashier - designing these self-scanning machines, putting in more security cameras, presumably hiring security staffers to watch them....why has no company tried automating their CEO position? CEOs often cost as much as hundreds or even thousands of other employees, think of the savings if you could just design sort of a holographic hatsune miku of an above average height tall man in a suit to give the occasional speech, host board meetings and do lines of coke on company time.

"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"

"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"

"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"

"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"  
   
 
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