Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Mornin' Dakka!

So, as part of the Mordheim thing that I keep alluding to making, I've managed to nab some slightly older plastic state troopers and a few of the Empire Militia.
I got the idea into my head that I want them to be kinda grizzled, and veteran-y. The more modern plastic State Troopers have various skulls and scrolls and gubbins, which I think suits the look pretty well, but I feel like the older plastics (plus the Greatswords) are a little more bare and spartan on that front. I kind of want to give them some greenstuff stowage? baggage? I'm not really sure what to call it on soldiers of that era, but like, stachels etc. that make them look like they're in it for the long haul.

Now! Knowing that the Landsknechts were at their peak, sort of trendsetters, I've had a look at some of the historical depictions of their fashion, but it looks rather... fashion magazine-y, I suppose. There are a lot of dapper gentlemen with floppy hats and cool big feathers and what have you, but like... no bags. I guess if you're important enough to be a snappily dressed Landsknecht, then you'd have a filthy peasant carrying all of your spare feathers, and parchment to write letters home to bae or whatever you did as a big cool guy with a beard and a massive Flamberg, but... Anyone know of some better sources for this?
I also checked out some Bruegel the Elder artworks, because I quite like his documentary approach to daily life in approximately that period, and while I could go on for bloody days about his attitude to his less noble subjects, I think he didn't often embellish much. Likewise though, his soldiers particularly rarely seem to carry anything but their arms and armor. Though there's the odd knife, or flask, or messenger bag, like with the Landsknecht stuff... it's just not really there?
I understand that there wouldn't be anything even remotely standard-issue, so likely most of this kind of stuff would be brought from home, if at all, and probably a bit crudely made.
Which kind of brings me to the thought that perhaps all of that nonsense would just be in the baggage train? This makes a fair bit of sense to me.
Unfortunately, my insatiable romantic sensibilities simply won't abide by such drab, characterless warriors!

So I wonder if any of y'all have any good sources for this?
Warhammer art depicting the Empire's rank-and-file would be excellent, though if anyone can find actual period-accurate depictions of the kind of kit that soldiers of that epoch would be likely to be carrying, I'd love to see it! Or indeed, any minis with custom gear that you think are particularly dapper!

(also, any tutorials for sculpting that kind of stuff... I'm pretty confident I could do it but... not 100% hahaha, any pointers would be much appreciated!)

Cheers for looking!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh! And while I'm here! Anyone know how to make like rosaries or other pseudo-religious charms and amulets? Cheers!

You don't carry your baggage into battle it is left at the camp under light guard.

Mordheim, the computer game version, has good enough depictions of Empire baggage.



Here we go, this is the Witch Hunter faction cart. I cant find an image of the Human Mercenaries faction one, but it would give you a good idea of what you are looking for.

Or just take any cart, add some comet symbols, braziers and chests to it, some bags and sacks and rolls of bedding or tent material, and a skull or two and it is done. Baggage for an Empire unit.

Ahhh, to be honest, I feel like that makes a fair bit of sense. I did suspect my desire to put bags and pouches and all sorts onto my dudes might've been bleed over from modern tacticool stuff, just strangely grafted onto the Warhammer world.

Might still have a crack at it, anyway! Just means I'll be more unbound with the historicism (not at all a bad thing), but as things are pretty firmly rooted in the realm of fantasy, I guess at least my historical fashion friends won't be turning up their noses at my terrible pre-modern combat fashion faux-pas "An early Italian rennaissance leather strap-clasp? On a late Habsburg-Austrian sheepgut brocade? Oh darrrrling, puh-lease, what are you? A 3rd-rate Victorian Dandy writing his first Gothic Novella? Heaven preserve me!"

Do you have the Mordheim game, if so reopen it and take a look at the cart the Reiklanders get.

Yes renaissance armies were heavy on baggage, personal packs are a modern idea. 18th century onwards with a handful of examples a priori, notably the Assyrians and Romans (especially).

Even so no army, even modern ones with universal webbing fight in full pack if they can help otherwise. You drop pack, fight and then return to collect your pack.

The first modern pack came out with the Parliamentarian New Model Army, which set the standard for modern militaries from 1643. They were the first since Rome to give every soldier assigned boots and webbing. Prior to this units had to equip them selves or be provided for by their commander.

In any case contemporary woodcuts of the New Model Army did not show soldiers fighting with pack, with exception of the horse pack common to the time (and present on Empire pistolier models).
In any event New Model Army is late renaissance, early Age of Reason, melee infantry were present but reduced to a small and decreasing number of pike, melee cavalry was already absent, though it would return in a hundred years.
Fantasy is fantasy so it is not beyond reason that you could model a handgunner and pistolier army on New Model, but it is still a century and a half too advanced for the Empire faction. Empire has the tech gauge glued at c1500, clearly a post medieval society but not advanced enough to rely entirely on black powder even if there were no chaos warriors to shrug off shot.

The problem you will get is that Empire and Bretonnian armies resemble historical ones and have baggage trains etc, yet the Old World often fights a far more modern form of strategic warfare. Medieval knights didn't have to consider air support, or blitzkrieg elements. In general Warhammer plays a bit like the later half of the American Civil War when all things are averaged out. Massed battles occur, but WMDs are a thing as are large monsters (ironclads). Fast strike is important, particularly with cavalry.
Renaissance heavy baggage trains don't seem to make much a sense when you consider that dragon ogres are indistinguishable from the Panzerwaffe (and for the record Steam Tanks are not, they are way too few, slow and reliant on close logistical support).

Off battlefield Empire logistics is a nice thing to explore, but it comes with a lot of handwavium. The baggage train can get there if the army can <handwave>, beastmen ambushes are not interested in the caravan, just the soldiers <handwave>. We will do fine so long as we add logistics to the fantasy side of the hobby, envisage nice baggage carts reminiscent of that of a renaissance army and don't think about it too much.