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The dark hollows of Kentucky

Something I've been wondering about: Recently in the Necron and Ork 9th edition codexes both the Monolith and Morkanaughts/Gorkanaughts were moved from the Heavy Support FOC slot to the LoW slot. I've seen multiple complaints from both Necron and Ork players about this. Both units gained wounds in this move, but I'm not sure about firepower. The CP cost of the SHAD has also been addressed. So what problems has this change caused for these units that has displeased Necron and Ork players? And are those problems that could be best addressed by cutting their wounds and returning them to the Heavy Support slot, or by fixing them for LoWs in general?
   
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I'm no Ork or Necron player, but Guard. Still one point I could see is, that you need another detachment for the LoW. To give an analogy: the IG Valdor Tank hunter is currently a titanic heavy support unit. It might not be the most competetive, but at least it can be included in a normal Brigade or Battalion and still leave room to have for example a small Scion detachment and a third detachment of anything useful. If it moves to LoW it would need it's own, which would make it even more unlikely to be taken.

The other way around: would something like the Gorgon, Crassus Transport, Minotaur Artillery or Praetor Launcher (who are currently LoW and pretty underwhelming choices for this spot) move to heavy support for some reason they would become much more attractive, as you could just cram them into the detachment you are taking anyway.

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Mainly, that if you don't take 3 in a SHD, you miss out on 'chapter traits' for them, which is often a big deal.
   
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With orks there are several problems about current nauts. First, detachments unlock Specialist Mobs (one unit per detachment) so taking a LoW means une less Specialist Mob. he CP loss is not a problem, and the gain in wounds is appreciated but those things cost 380 points. They used to be 250ish in 7th. A FW kill tank is 275 and shows up regularly at events.

Problem with nauts is they are much too expensive for what they do and they also take a CP and one Specialist Mob option away. But their first issue is definitely being way too expensive; kill tanks being a competitive choice, despite their LoW role, proves that.

Cutting their wounds and moving them back to heavy support would solve nothing, nauts need a 100 points price cut. If you reduce their wounds, then even a 150 points price cut, which is close to a 50% discount.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
sanguine40k wrote:
Mainly, that if you don't take 3 in a SHD, you miss out on 'chapter traits' for them, which is often a big deal.


Also that. Orks units massively rely on klan traits, except cheap scoring units maybe.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/11/26 15:04:50


 
   
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The problem with the Monolith isn't just that it's now a LoW. It's a huge model that lost Fly so it's really difficult to move it around the table on most boards. It's expensive but not that durable even with T8 and a 2+ save. Its damage output is OK, but not worth what you pay for it.

I'm not sure the OP's premise is correct. The problem isn't really with moving units to LoW, it's often with the units themselves being badly priced.
   
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Stormsurges are pretty damn-awful, made worse by being a LoW, meaning you either have to take 3, or just the 1 without any Sept traits.
   
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Slipspace wrote:
The problem with the Monolith isn't just that it's now a LoW. It's a huge model that lost Fly so it's really difficult to move it around the table on most boards. It's expensive but not that durable even with T8 and a 2+ save. Its damage output is OK, but not worth what you pay for it.

I'm not sure the OP's premise is correct. The problem isn't really with moving units to LoW, it's often with the units themselves being badly priced.

Well, that's what I was wondering: is the problem that they're now LoWs, or something that has nothing to do with that? The Monolith losing FLY doesn't have anything to do with it becoming a LoW (and I agree it should have kept it), for example. So far the only complaint that seems to tie into being a LoW is the loss of faction traits. Price and rules seem to be the biggest complaints, and those aren't a "LoW problem" specifically.
   
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 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Slipspace wrote:
The problem with the Monolith isn't just that it's now a LoW. It's a huge model that lost Fly so it's really difficult to move it around the table on most boards. It's expensive but not that durable even with T8 and a 2+ save. Its damage output is OK, but not worth what you pay for it.

I'm not sure the OP's premise is correct. The problem isn't really with moving units to LoW, it's often with the units themselves being badly priced.

Well, that's what I was wondering: is the problem that they're now LoWs, or something that has nothing to do with that? The Monolith losing FLY doesn't have anything to do with it becoming a LoW (and I agree it should have kept it), for example. So far the only complaint that seems to tie into being a LoW is the loss of faction traits. Price and rules seem to be the biggest complaints, and those aren't a "LoW problem" specifically.


Another issue I've seen is the habit of just transferring the regular stats into LoWs. A Baneblade for example is a huge 500-ton war machine with all manner of targeting and visual systems, yet it still has the same BS as a Guardsman. The Valdor contains a huge Neutron Laser and is essentially designed for sniping vehicles, but gets no such bonuses at all.

Part of it is GW's idea to remove anything remotely unique or interesting from the IA entries, but the LoWs themselves generally could do with a boost to justify them over the equivalent points in other units.
   
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Gathering the Informations.

Baneblades are superheavies/Lords of War...but they're still effectively a "mass-produced" vehicle for the Imperium. They don't need to be BS2+ or whatever.

It's not until you get into things like the Shadowsword where there's specialized kit like the targeting arrays which grant a bonus v Titanic creatures or the like and highly specialized/trained crews pulled from specific styles of Leman Russes or other armored vehicles.

For an example:
The crew members of a Leman Russ Vanquisher might get transferred over to a Destroyer Tank Hunter, if one becomes available, before potentially getting picked to serve with a Shadowsword.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/11/26 16:21:05


 
   
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Slipspace wrote:
The problem with the Monolith isn't just that it's now a LoW. It's a huge model that lost Fly so it's really difficult to move it around the table on most boards. It's expensive but not that durable even with T8 and a 2+ save. Its damage output is OK, but not worth what you pay for it.

I'm not sure the OP's premise is correct. The problem isn't really with moving units to LoW, it's often with the units themselves being badly priced.

I'm not an Ork or Necron player, but I'd presume this would be the heart of it. When LoW also includes things like Titans and the big Knights, one expects a certain level of durability and/or killyness from other LoWs. If 'nauts were at least cheap, then they might be justified as the budget LoW you can spam without (relatively) breaking the bank, but the additional restrictions that come with being a LoW end up just making a bad thing worse. It feels a bit like a case of GW doing something cool (big feth-off centerpiece models) and then adding the mechanical infrastructure to support the cool thing as a begrudged afterthought.
   
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As far as Gork/Morkanauts go for Orks is that they weren't great as a heavy support choice and then got a price hike and made a LoW.

They're big and unwieldy to move around and aren't actually that durable when AT weapons start pointing in their direction. They're also outclassed by Kill Tanks, which are even cheaper. Especially the Giga Shoota version.

Gorks and Morks used to have a niche in the last codex, but that niche is either no longer viable or no longer really doable due to Kustom jobs changing and not having nearly as a reliable charge.

Morks are only really worth it now if you reaaaally want a KFF and are already taking two other LoWs, which doesn't come up often if at all.
   
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As a necron player my problem with moving my Monith into LoW is mostly one of inconvenience/annoyance.

1) It prevents me from using it in smaller games.
Sure, someone's going to go on about "balance ". But really I can bring more effective & multiple choices. If you can't deal with a single giant pile of wounds with a 2+ save? Then you sure as hell aren't going to handle the multiple, more effective, threats I'd bring instead.... So pfft to the balance arguments

2) because I'm not going to invest the $ or pts in 2 or 3 more monoliths. The only real way for me to use the one I've got is as an Auxiliary detachment.
For this I'm punished by not receiving faction bonuses. So annoying.
This annoyance extends to other solo Lord's of War I have in other forces. For ex; My SW have a Thunderhawk. T-hawks cost sooo much $ & pts that you'd have to be insane & be playing emense games to ever field more than one.


   
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 Kanluwen wrote:
Baneblades are superheavies/Lords of War...but they're still effectively a "mass-produced" vehicle for the Imperium. They don't need to be BS2+ or whatever.

It's not until you get into things like the Shadowsword where there's specialized kit like the targeting arrays which grant a bonus v Titanic creatures or the like and highly specialized/trained crews pulled from specific styles of Leman Russes or other armored vehicles.

For an example:
The crew members of a Leman Russ Vanquisher might get transferred over to a Destroyer Tank Hunter, if one becomes available, before potentially getting picked to serve with a Shadowsword.


There are more Tank Commanders in the galaxy than Baneblades, and Baneblades are considered more important and have much more elite crews than the Tank Commander of any given tank company.

But the TC hits on a 3+ and rerolls ones. There is no lore reason for a Baneblade to be 4+ other than phrrrbt.

And "I don't like them" doesn't count as a lore reason :p

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/11/26 18:06:08


 
   
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 Afrodactyl wrote:
As far as Gork/Morkanauts go for Orks is that they weren't great as a heavy support choice and then got a price hike and made a LoW.

They're big and unwieldy to move around and aren't actually that durable when AT weapons start pointing in their direction. They're also outclassed by Kill Tanks, which are even cheaper. Especially the Giga Shoota version.

Gorks and Morks used to have a niche in the last codex, but that niche is either no longer viable or no longer really doable due to Kustom jobs changing and not having nearly as a reliable charge.

Morks are only really worth it now if you reaaaally want a KFF and are already taking two other LoWs, which doesn't come up often if at all.


I'd like to pick up an 'orkanaut for my new Ork army as my favourite units are walkerz. However the LOW status put me off. They would be decent enough units as a HS choice (not super-competitive, but usable), but the CP tax combined with losing clan traits doesn't really motivate me into putting a £60+ model on the table.
   
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 xttz wrote:
 Afrodactyl wrote:
As far as Gork/Morkanauts go for Orks is that they weren't great as a heavy support choice and then got a price hike and made a LoW.

They're big and unwieldy to move around and aren't actually that durable when AT weapons start pointing in their direction. They're also outclassed by Kill Tanks, which are even cheaper. Especially the Giga Shoota version.

Gorks and Morks used to have a niche in the last codex, but that niche is either no longer viable or no longer really doable due to Kustom jobs changing and not having nearly as a reliable charge.

Morks are only really worth it now if you reaaaally want a KFF and are already taking two other LoWs, which doesn't come up often if at all.


I'd like to pick up an 'orkanaut for my new Ork army as my favourite units are walkerz. However the LOW status put me off. They would be decent enough units as a HS choice (not super-competitive, but usable), but the CP tax combined with losing clan traits doesn't really motivate me into putting a £60+ model on the table.

So would a price cut of about 100 PPM, bringing the Naughts in line with the Kill Tank, be enough to make them viable? Or would the loss of faction traits and the CP tax still be too much to swallow?
   
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 Unit1126PLL wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
Baneblades are superheavies/Lords of War...but they're still effectively a "mass-produced" vehicle for the Imperium. They don't need to be BS2+ or whatever.

It's not until you get into things like the Shadowsword where there's specialized kit like the targeting arrays which grant a bonus v Titanic creatures or the like and highly specialized/trained crews pulled from specific styles of Leman Russes or other armored vehicles.

For an example:
The crew members of a Leman Russ Vanquisher might get transferred over to a Destroyer Tank Hunter, if one becomes available, before potentially getting picked to serve with a Shadowsword.


There are more Tank Commanders in the galaxy than Baneblades, and Baneblades are considered more important and have much more elite crews than the Tank Commander of any given tank company.

But the TC hits on a 3+ and rerolls ones. There is no lore reason for a Baneblade to be 4+ other than phrrrbt.

And "I don't like them" doesn't count as a lore reason :p


I mean part of it could be argued that Baneblades are more complex machines than a baseline Leman Russ, and requires more crew and more skilled crew to work at full efficiency. Baseline BS4+ is fine, though a "Veteran Crew" upgrade that you can buy to up it to BS3+ would be nice.

Really what Baneblades need more is better defenses so it can survive a bit. Any list that can off a Knight can take down a Baneblade easily. Pre Leman Russ armor buff, Baneblades cost just shy of 3x more than a Russ, while being barely 2x as tanky. GW is terrified of toughness ratings more than 8, but at least giving it a 2+ save like the Russ would give it something. Toss in a few more wounds, or maybe an ability to count AP -1, and maybe AP -2 as AP 0, then it might be tanky enough to be worth taking.


For the main thread, the biggest issue to me with Lords of War is that, unless GW changed it or I am misremembering, you need to take a full set of 3 in order to get any of the Regiment, Chapter, Sept or whatever bonuses on them. Means you have to lean in HARD if you want those abilities on them, which also means a big skew is forced. Also the fact that most of them are not worth their points by a long shot.
   
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 Gadzilla666 wrote:
 xttz wrote:
 Afrodactyl wrote:
As far as Gork/Morkanauts go for Orks is that they weren't great as a heavy support choice and then got a price hike and made a LoW.

They're big and unwieldy to move around and aren't actually that durable when AT weapons start pointing in their direction. They're also outclassed by Kill Tanks, which are even cheaper. Especially the Giga Shoota version.

Gorks and Morks used to have a niche in the last codex, but that niche is either no longer viable or no longer really doable due to Kustom jobs changing and not having nearly as a reliable charge.

Morks are only really worth it now if you reaaaally want a KFF and are already taking two other LoWs, which doesn't come up often if at all.


I'd like to pick up an 'orkanaut for my new Ork army as my favourite units are walkerz. However the LOW status put me off. They would be decent enough units as a HS choice (not super-competitive, but usable), but the CP tax combined with losing clan traits doesn't really motivate me into putting a £60+ model on the table.

So would a price cut of about 100 PPM, bringing the Naughts in line with the Kill Tank, be enough to make them viable? Or would the loss of faction traits and the CP tax still be too much to swallow?


At 275 points + 1CP with no klan bonus and -1 possible Specialist Mobs (if you use them) Nauts would be barely playable. With the klan bonus they could be ok, maybe not competitive at tournament level but certainly decent for casual games at least, I'd even accept paying 2CPs (like an additional patrol) for a detachment that allows to add a single naut with a klan trait. Some klan bonuses can be massive improvements for nauts. The CP tax is almost irrelevant, orks don't use lots of stratagems anyway.

 
   
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 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Something I've been wondering about: Recently in the Necron and Ork 9th edition codexes both the Monolith and Morkanaughts/Gorkanaughts were moved from the Heavy Support FOC slot to the LoW slot. I've seen multiple complaints from both Necron and Ork players about this. Both units gained wounds in this move, but I'm not sure about firepower. The CP cost of the SHAD has also been addressed. So what problems has this change caused for these units that has displeased Necron and Ork players? And are those problems that could be best addressed by cutting their wounds and returning them to the Heavy Support slot, or by fixing them for LoWs in general?


For Orkz...the units are just god awful.

I own a Morkanaut and that is it as far as super heavies goes. In 8th edition it was hot garbage at 220pts. It had 18 wounds and its gun was kind of crap at D6 shots.

Its now a super heavy and it costs..ready for this? 350pts It went up 130pts. So what did it gain for this? It gained 6 wounds, Its main gun is now 3D3 shots....umm...yep thats about it. Oh! Its Kustom Force Field also went up 50% in price and reduced its usefulness by 50% so it now only grants a 6+ bubble instead of a 5+. So 50% more expensive and 50% as useful.

So why does it suck? Because GW fundamentally does not understand the Ork army and its playstyle/mechanics. You could revert the Morkanaut back to a heavy choice and reduce its price back to 220 and it would still be a lump of crap. Its predominantly a shooting walker, it has 4 Big shootas, a Rokkit Launcha, a KMZ and a KMB ranged weapons with the shortest being 24' range and how good is it at shooting? I mean...its piloted by a Big Mek so it should be a 4+ or even a 3+ since hes likely going to give it an enhanced Git finda right? Nope. 5+. Yep 5+ to hit. But i mean...the game isn't littered with -1 to hit right? Even at max shots and without -1to hit it averages 4 hits a turn from its main guns. On average though its only 2.6 hits with at least 1 mortal wound to yourself. At -1 to hit its 1.3 hits a turn from its main guns.

I played one recently for fun, it died turn 2 because my opponent wasn't even trying to kill it because so much of his army that was in range had -1 to hit. At -1 to hit you are as likely to inflict dmg on yourself as you are on the enemy thanks to the 1s to hit causing mortal wounds to yourself. Its also slow as hell at 8' movement and its profile is so big that its impossible not to see it pretty much anywhere on the table.

Overall, you could buff it to 3+ to hit, make it a heavy support choice again and reduce its price to 220 and it might be useful. But if you don't go at least that far it won't be competitive or even fun to play.

 Tomsug wrote:
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Basically agree with everything already said about the 'nauts. I was planning on picking up a morkanaut because it's a cool model, and would be a decent enough way to provide a 5++ bubble and with a kustom job could have BS 4+.

Now it costs 50% more for a marginal increase in wounds, but with a worse shield and worse shooting and no clan. Did I mention it also costs CP and a detachment slot? Neither of those are massive issues but just more nails in the coffin of an already bad unit.

Its old profile was already not that great, now it's just universally worse and costs more.
   
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 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Something I've been wondering about: Recently in the Necron and Ork 9th edition codexes both the Monolith and Morkanaughts/Gorkanaughts were moved from the Heavy Support FOC slot to the LoW slot. I've seen multiple complaints from both Necron and Ork players about this. Both units gained wounds in this move, but I'm not sure about firepower. The CP cost of the SHAD has also been addressed. So what problems has this change caused for these units that has displeased Necron and Ork players? And are those problems that could be best addressed by cutting their wounds and returning them to the Heavy Support slot, or by fixing them for LoWs in general?
The Monolith was the Necron Land Raider, not the Necron Baneblade. Orks already had a LoW - the Stompa - but had their two biggest walkers booted into LoW Land because... they're big?

When the Hierodules were made Heavy Support choices it represented a massive step forward for Tyranid units. I was hoping that that kind of thing would be reflected with other super-heavies-that-can't-really-justify-being-a-LoW (like the Macharius and its variants). Instead the original and most classic tank the Necrons ever had gets shunted into its own separate choice, and for some people with Old Skool Necron armies who don't own any of the more modern Necron vehicles, our main vehicle is now something different to the rest of our army, and suddenly we're 'That Guy' who brings multiple LoW to every battle because we just want to use something we've owned for the better part of 20 years.

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 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Spoiler:
 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Something I've been wondering about: Recently in the Necron and Ork 9th edition codexes both the Monolith and Morkanaughts/Gorkanaughts were moved from the Heavy Support FOC slot to the LoW slot. I've seen multiple complaints from both Necron and Ork players about this. Both units gained wounds in this move, but I'm not sure about firepower. The CP cost of the SHAD has also been addressed. So what problems has this change caused for these units that has displeased Necron and Ork players? And are those problems that could be best addressed by cutting their wounds and returning them to the Heavy Support slot, or by fixing them for LoWs in general?
The Monolith was the Necron Land Raider, not the Necron Baneblade. Orks already had a LoW - the Stompa - but had their two biggest walkers booted into LoW Land because... they're big?

When the Hierodules were made Heavy Support choices it represented a massive step forward for Tyranid units. I was hoping that that kind of thing would be reflected with other super-heavies-that-can't-really-justify-being-a-LoW (like the Macharius and its variants). Instead the original and most classic tank the Necrons ever had gets shunted into its own separate choice, and for some people with Old Skool Necron armies who don't own any of the more modern Necron vehicles, our main vehicle is now something different to the rest of our army, and suddenly we're 'That Guy' who brings multiple LoW to every battle because we just want to use something we've owned for the better part of 20 years.

Yeah, I get that, still bugs me that they moved Spartans to the LoW slot. And based on what everyone is saying, and having run the numbers myself, I don't think that Monoliths or the Orkonaughts should be LoWs, even with the extra wounds. Move them back to Heavy Support, give them price cuts, and for sake, give Monoliths FLY back! They should probably have a look at some of the other smaller LoWs too while they're at it.
   
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 Kanluwen wrote:
Baneblades are superheavies/Lords of War...but they're still effectively a "mass-produced" vehicle for the Imperium. They don't need to be BS2+ or whatever.

It's not until you get into things like the Shadowsword where there's specialized kit like the targeting arrays which grant a bonus v Titanic creatures or the like and highly specialized/trained crews pulled from specific styles of Leman Russes or other armored vehicles.

For an example:
The crew members of a Leman Russ Vanquisher might get transferred over to a Destroyer Tank Hunter, if one becomes available, before potentially getting picked to serve with a Shadowsword.


Yeah its almost like GW's completely flat to-hit chart is a restriction that causes problems with realism. Maybe it should be more difficult to hit a grot whose nose you can see the tip of behind an otherwise totally blocking ruin at the maximum edge of your weapon range than a warlord titan 2" away.

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SemperMortis wrote:


I own a Morkanaut and that is it as far as super heavies goes. In 8th edition it was hot garbage at 220pts. It had 18 wounds and its gun was kind of crap at D6 shots.

Its now a super heavy and it costs..ready for this? 350pts It went up 130pts. So what did it gain for this? It gained 6 wounds, Its main gun is now 3D3 shots....umm...yep thats about it. Oh! Its Kustom Force Field also went up 50% in price and reduced its usefulness by 50% so it now only grants a 6+ bubble instead of a 5+. So 50% more expensive and 50% as useful.



Nooo, nauts weren't that cheap in 8th. Not even in 7th edition prices were so cheap when they cost 245 for a Gorkanaut, 280 for a Morkanaut (assuming it takes a 50ppm KFF). In 8th both nauts were 310 points, 220 was the naked model but you had to pay for several weapons.

55-70ppm is the real price hike from 8th to 9th for nauts, still massive though.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/11/28 07:46:48


 
   
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Nauts were a cool option for friendly games as heavy support choice.

Moving them to LoW hast just flat out made them unplayable, not to mention that they were also made worse on top of that.

@Semper the gun was also 3d3 in 8th. It gained two shots of rokkits and a kmb shot, the big shootas got dakka 5/3 and the klaw doing flat 6 in combat now. It also lost the kustom job that was essential to make it work at all, so you now pay same CP, more points and get a weaker unit that also eats a detachment and loses its culture.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/11/28 07:58:16


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I agree with what had been said it seems that all theses units being dumped into LoW only make a bad unit worse to fufill whatever criteria GW has placed on a unit being a LoW, which from the looks of it is more points? Lol maybe a sprinkling of extra wounds?

What is the role of the monolith for necrons now? A Warrior delivery system, that can't move anywhere on the board? A board control unit? A dps unit? I can't tell cause it sucks at all of those and is too expensive to get any sort of synergy out of it.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/11/28 17:04:34


 
   
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 Pael wrote:
I agree with what had been said I seems that all theses units being dumped into LoW only make a bad unit worse to fir what ever criteria GWs has placed on a unit being a LoW which from the looks of it is more points? Lol maybe a sprinkling of extra wounds?

What is the role of the monolith for necrons now? A Warrior delivery system? That can't move anywhere on the board? A board control you it? A dps unit? I can't tell cause it sucks at all of those and is too expensive to get any sort of synergy out of it.

I honestly don't know what gw's definition of what constitutes a LoW is. The Valdor has 20W, and is TITANIC, but is a Heavy Support choice (which is fine, it doesn't really have the firepower to be a LoW IMO). Then you look at the two big Custodes flyers, which have 22W, plenty of firepower, and cost 450 and 500 PPM respectively, but are, well, FLYERS. It's all over the map. If those units aren't LoWs, then I don't see why Monoliths and the Orkanaughts are.
   
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Decrepit Dakkanaut





Tampa,FL USA

 the_scotsman wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
Baneblades are superheavies/Lords of War...but they're still effectively a "mass-produced" vehicle for the Imperium. They don't need to be BS2+ or whatever.

It's not until you get into things like the Shadowsword where there's specialized kit like the targeting arrays which grant a bonus v Titanic creatures or the like and highly specialized/trained crews pulled from specific styles of Leman Russes or other armored vehicles.

For an example:
The crew members of a Leman Russ Vanquisher might get transferred over to a Destroyer Tank Hunter, if one becomes available, before potentially getting picked to serve with a Shadowsword.


Yeah its almost like GW's completely flat to-hit chart is a restriction that causes problems with realism. Maybe it should be more difficult to hit a grot whose nose you can see the tip of behind an otherwise totally blocking ruin at the maximum edge of your weapon range than a warlord titan 2" away.


Shooting has essentially been a flat To-Hit since 3rd Ed, the chart was an illusion, especially since modifiers were less common then.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/11/28 17:04:38


You know you're really doing something when you can make strangers hate you over the Internet. - Mauleed
Just remember folks. Panic. Panic all the time. It's the only way to survive, other than just being mindful, of course-but geez, that's so friggin' boring. - Aegis Grimm
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Made in gb
Killer Klaivex




The dark behind the eyes.

 Pael wrote:

What is the role of the monolith for necrons now? A Warrior delivery system? That can't move anywhere on the board? A board control you it? A dps unit? I can't tell cause it sucks at all of those and is too expensive to get any sort of synergy out of it.


The Monolith appears to be one of the many units that has slowly lost its role.

The current version can bring some decent firepower (4 S9 AP-3 Dd3+3 shots plus another d6 S12 AP-3 D3 Blast shots). It looks decent at a glance . . . until you remember that you're paying close to 400pts for it.

Still, the Monolith was originally a support unit rather than a dedicated tank. In addition to allowing reserves to emerge from its portal, it also had the ability to teleport units to it - even letting them escape combat - and giving those same units a reroll on their resurrection rolls. So what does it do now? Er... not a whole lot. You can still bring units in from reserve through its portal, but only if it remains stationary (and its weapons do not have spectacular ranges). However, its ability to teleport troops around and/or to help their resurrection rolls is just gone entirely.

Also, whilst it was once very hard to kill - having AV14 on all sides and preventing Melta, Rending and similar abilities from adding extra dice to their penetration rolls - it's now just T8 with a 2+ save. Oh, but it does regenerate 1/24th of its starting wounds each turn.

Oh and it can't fly anymore, which is rather weird given that it has no way to move other than flying. Maybe someone at GW got confused by the shape and thought it was the Necron equivalent of a drop pod?

All in all, it's a very strange unit that feels lacking in every single area.

 the_scotsman wrote:
Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"

 Argive wrote:
GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.


 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

"Prepare to open fire at that towering Wraithknight!"
"ARE YOU DAFT MAN!?! YOU MIGHT HIT THE MEN WHO COME UP TO ITS ANKLES!!!"


Akiasura wrote:
I hate to sound like a serial killer, but I'll be reaching for my friend occam's razor yet again.


 insaniak wrote:

You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.

Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
 
   
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Fresh-Faced New User




I feel like LoW are paying for the sins of early 8th edition Knights. They nerfed them in multiple ways just because castellans were degenerate. Now armies with mediocre LoW don't even use them at all and have to suffer the consequences.

Just give all LoW traits regardless of if you have 3 or 1.

The monolith needs Fly and more inches of movement 8'' is way too low for how big it is. It needs to be atleast 12'' so it can clear terrain. Giving it this and the ability to have traits I would actually run mine since I could make it Mephrit for better offensive output and actually be able to maneuver it around the board.
   
 
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