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Place your bets!

I bet it's a primaris librarian with force staff, since GW seems intent on giving SM every possible relic permutation to primaris before they give even token weapon options to xenos HQ's...

sanguine40k wrote:
Place your bets!

I bet it's a primaris librarian with force staff, since GW seems intent on giving SM every possible relic permutation to primaris before they give even token weapon options to xenos HQ's...

Ignoring of course that upcoming Eldar Autarch....

Hmm. With nothing left to show for the 2021 refugee books, I expect a chaos marine or eldar model. Probably another character. Avatar, since we've probably seen Rumor Engine bits of that already.

There's always a chance of yet another space marine (particularly if its a limited edition whatever model for some event that won't actually happen this year), but I'm going to end today with a touch of hope and the god of bloody murder.

It's probably this:



I'm guessing it leaked early. Whoops!

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
It's probably this:



I'm guessing it leaked early. Whoops!

And just like with the gravis captain here GW is releasing a new model for this unit 6 years too late.

And giving it weapon options the original didn't have.

Malibu Stacey has to have her new hat!

 KingGarland wrote:

And just like with the gravis captain here GW is releasing a new model for this unit 6 years too late.

It's never too late for another SM sculpt.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
And giving it weapon options the original didn't have.

Malibu Stacey has to have her new hat!

my guess is the plan is to introduce this so they can retire he "heros of the chapter" set.

that one goes for 90 bucks (Canadian) and includes 2 Leuitenants 5 intercessors and 1 ancient. introduce the ancient seperately and people eaither have to buy the ancient seperately for inflated char costs. and the additional stuff as well. the lts lack much bling so you can cobble them together out of an intercessor pack just fine. so instead of buying 1 pack for 90 bucks you;'re buying a 45 buck char kit, and a 60 dollar intercessor kit.

But that means two Primaris Lieutenants will leave the range.

I hope they have replacements to compensate!

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
But that means two Primaris Lieutenants will leave the range.

I hope they have replacements to compensate!

Don't worry, they will.

Isn’t primaris ancient an oxymoron

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
It's probably this:



I'm guessing it leaked early. Whoops!

I was close!

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
But that means two Primaris Lieutenants will leave the range.

I hope they have replacements to compensate!

as I said not a big deal as it's dead easy to make that loud out with an intercessor it (I've done so)

Heh. They took it off Instagram.

mrFickle wrote:
Isn’t primaris ancient an oxymoron

Given that, in this context, 'ancient' does not refer to 'age', no, it's not.

Well, the model is nothing special, you can easily convert that loadout (and I did,) but I like that they're giving Primaris characters more weapon options. I hope they give lieutenants more weapons too. Or. hell, just let characters use weapons from chapter upgrade sprues like Intercessor sergeants (and no one else) do!

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
It's probably this:



I'm guessing it leaked early. Whoops!

Oh joy of joys, another SM model.

I had been thinking recently that their codex doesn't yet bear sufficient resemblance to a dictionary.

It does at least give the ancient a good weapon option finally. I don't like marine characters with just a ranged option.

The only element I don't like is the tactical rock they gave him. I'm using sector mechanicus bases for all my marines and its a pain in the backside every time I have to snip one off and find a replacement gizmo for them to pose on.

I wonder if he's a blade guard or a regular ancient. He doesn't have a tabard of any description but he has the same cruciform design on his banner which is on their shields. As the text doesn't imply he's a blade guard, I'm guessing regular ancient. (It seems an oversight that the blade guard ancient doesn't have a BLADE!)

The Black Adder wrote:
I wonder if he's a blade guard or a regular ancient. He doesn't have a tabard of any description but he has the same cruciform design on his banner which is on their shields. As the text doesn't imply he's a blade guard, I'm guessing regular ancient. (It seems an oversight that the blade guard ancient doesn't have a BLADE!)

The crux icon is a crusade badge according to the design notes for the Indomitus models in White dwarf 456 (presumably for the Indomitus Crusde as a whole).

It is odd that there are now two Primaris Ultramarine 2nd Company Ancients, neither of whom have the company banner...

Wield Sword and Standard With This Imperious New Primaris Ancient - WarCom

Bah.

If only we lived in more sensible times when characters could pick weapons off wargear lists.

Then we wouldn't have to deal with bizarre incremental releases that slowly catch primaris marines up to the bare minimum that was standard to marine characters since basically the beginning of the game.

 Lord Damocles wrote:

The Black Adder wrote:
I wonder if he's a blade guard or a regular ancient. He doesn't have a tabard of any description but he has the same cruciform design on his banner which is on their shields. As the text doesn't imply he's a blade guard, I'm guessing regular ancient. (It seems an oversight that the blade guard ancient doesn't have a BLADE!)

The crux icon is a crusade badge according to the design notes for the Indomitus models in White dwarf 456 (presumably for the Indomitus Crusde as a whole).

Ah, yes I think I had heard that before. Thanks for the info.

Voss wrote:
Bah.

If only we lived in more sensible times when characters could pick weapons off wargear lists.

Then we wouldn't have to deal with bizarre incremental releases that slowly catch primaris marines up to the bare minimum that was standard to marine characters since basically the beginning of the game.

Except this isn't even a weapon option for the current datasheet.

They would FAR PREFER to give a space marine unit another weapon option than spend any energy on giving more options to other factions' characters even though they need it far more.

sanguine40k wrote:

Voss wrote:
Bah.

If only we lived in more sensible times when characters could pick weapons off wargear lists.

Then we wouldn't have to deal with bizarre incremental releases that slowly catch primaris marines up to the bare minimum that was standard to marine characters since basically the beginning of the game.

Except this isn't even a weapon option for the current datasheet.

I know. But that's because datasheets are terrible, if we still had sensible codex entries and wargear lists, it wouldn't be an issue.

Well, aside from the 'but thou must only use that which comes in the box, conversions are for sinners' attitude that's creeping through the range. That's how we get 'Gravis Captain with Heavy Bolt Rifle' as its own unique datasheet, and nobody should want that.

I hope we haven't entered the era of Primaris Ancients now that we have seventeen Lieutenants for every conceivable configuration.

Voss wrote:

sanguine40k wrote:

Voss wrote:
Bah.

If only we lived in more sensible times when characters could pick weapons off wargear lists.

Then we wouldn't have to deal with bizarre incremental releases that slowly catch primaris marines up to the bare minimum that was standard to marine characters since basically the beginning of the game.

Except this isn't even a weapon option for the current datasheet.

I know. But that's because datasheets are terrible, if we still had sensible codex entries and wargear lists, it wouldn't be an issue.

Well, aside from the 'but thou must only use that which comes in the box, conversions are for sinners' attitude that's creeping through the range. That's how we get 'Gravis Captain with Heavy Bolt Rifle' as its own unique datasheet, and nobody should want that.

You realize right that datasheets have nothing to do with this? If they did same format as before these would still be just as limited as now. Conversely if gw wanted more weapon options they could do same in datasheets.

tneva82 wrote:

Voss wrote:

sanguine40k wrote:

Voss wrote:
Bah.

If only we lived in more sensible times when characters could pick weapons off wargear lists.

Then we wouldn't have to deal with bizarre incremental releases that slowly catch primaris marines up to the bare minimum that was standard to marine characters since basically the beginning of the game.

Except this isn't even a weapon option for the current datasheet.

I know. But that's because datasheets are terrible, if we still had sensible codex entries and wargear lists, it wouldn't be an issue.

Well, aside from the 'but thou must only use that which comes in the box, conversions are for sinners' attitude that's creeping through the range. That's how we get 'Gravis Captain with Heavy Bolt Rifle' as its own unique datasheet, and nobody should want that.

You realize right that datasheets have nothing to do with this? If they did same format as before these would still be just as limited as now. Conversely if gw wanted more weapon options they could do same in datasheets.

They have a lot to do with it. Wargear used to be lists elsewhere in the book that everything referred to. 'Everything on the datasheet or bust (except points)' is part (admittedly only part) of the reasons options are hacked down. The whole design ethos of 8th and 9th is constraint rather than options and datasheets are a part of that. You don't get separate unit entries for different weapons or jump packs or bikes under any system GW uses or used without datasheets.

The existence of 6 of the 7 Space Marine Captain datasheets make perfect sense (there is no defense for the Captain with Master-Crafted Heavy Bolt Rifle datasheet). They prevent a hideously long and confusing Captain Datasheet that would require:

Five different stat blocks

Five different basic gear list

Six Special Rules that only apply to one of the five stat blocks

Five different Wargear Options list for the different stat blocks

Five different variants of the Keyword list

This holds similarly true for other units that are split into multiple datasheets. It is hard to understand why they needed the three different Gladiator datasheets or the two Predator datasheets. On the other hand, you wouldn't was to squeeze all the Necron Cyrptics into a single super-confusing datasheet. The issue is they seem to be rather random on when they split things and kept them together. No one bats an eye about the 7 different main guns on the Leman Russ Battle Tank which used to be "different" tanks in a prior edition.

 alextroy wrote:
The existence of 6 of the 7 Space Marine Captain datasheets make perfect sense (there is no defense for the Captain with Master-Crafted Heavy Bolt Rifle datasheet). They prevent a hideously long and confusing Captain Datasheet that would require:

Five different stat blocks

Five different basic gear list

Six Special Rules that only apply to one of the five stat blocks

Five different Wargear Options list for the different stat blocks

Five different variants of the Keyword list

Finally, some voice of sanity

This holds similarly true for other units that are split into multiple datasheets. It is hard to understand why they needed the three different Gladiator datasheets or the two Predator datasheets. On the other hand, you wouldn't was to squeeze all the Necron Cyrptics into a single super-confusing datasheet. The issue is they seem to be rather random on when they split things and kept them together. No one bats an eye about the 7 different main guns on the Leman Russ Battle Tank which used to be "different" tanks in a prior edition.

It's caused by side effects of rule of 3 (which is itself cried/bashed about despite not being any different than old HOC). GW decided (for whatever reason) that SM armored companies should still be a thing but russ spam is bad. Maybe because no one was taking predators but russes were all IG lists were taking for months. Yeah, it's inconsistent but it does make some sense, at least for GW writers.

 alextroy wrote:
The existence of 6 of the 7 Space Marine Captain datasheets make perfect sense (there is no defense for the Captain with Master-Crafted Heavy Bolt Rifle datasheet). They prevent a hideously long and confusing Captain Datasheet that would require:

Five different stat blocks

Five different basic gear list

Six Special Rules that only apply to one of the five stat blocks

Five different Wargear Options list for the different stat blocks

Five different variants of the Keyword list

This holds similarly true for other units that are split into multiple datasheets. It is hard to understand why they needed the three different Gladiator datasheets or the two Predator datasheets. On the other hand, you wouldn't was to squeeze all the Necron Cyrptics into a single super-confusing datasheet. The issue is they seem to be rather random on when they split things and kept them together. No one bats an eye about the 7 different main guns on the Leman Russ Battle Tank which used to be "different" tanks in a prior edition.

1- Nope. Strangely this was never required, even though bikes, jump packs, terminator armor and master crafted armor all 'modified' stat blocks. The datasheet's crappy presentation of information makes you think this is necessary, but 25+ years of the game makes it clear it is not.

2- Nope. There is no sensible reason why they wouldn't share gear lists, nor any reason to have five of the silly things. At worst 3- standard, gravis, terminator, and I wouldn't actually bother with that differentiation. Want a stormbolter or thunder hammer on your Gravis Captain or old marine captain? Knock yourself out. [I could keep going on this, because the 4.5 pages of weapons for marines is beyond stupid. Shrink the list- I don't care at all about all these trivial differences between bolters. Pick a stat line- this isn't an RPG or even Kill Team or Necromunda. 40k doesn't need this level of differentation and the fact that so many of these guns are basically the same gun with a minor or no bonus at all is freaking ridiculous]

3- Special rules bloat is bad. Just... don't have a pile of rules that only apply to individual models.

4- Same as 2. Exactly the same as 2, actually, which is puzzling.

5- Yeah, GW does keywords... poorly. I don't know why you care about a ham fisted way of targeting the horrible bloat of strats. Or the absolute mess of who is or isn't allowed to get on the transports. Yes, the terminator captain or primaris captain can get on the rhino, and the oldmarine isn't kicked off the grav tanks. Deal with it.


--
The Russ argument is weird, partly because it lacks context (many of those were FW tanks done individually because of the way FW used to operate as a specialty line, and were pulled into the main guard codex and GW initially didn't want to step on any toes).
The big thing is that they're perfectly functional as the same unit entry after consolidation, which rather obviously gives the lie to the idea that separate datasheets are needed for weapon swaps.

Not sure what's confusing about Crypteks. Pick a power, pick a gun. The crappy gun gets a bonus wargear choice and some powers have a secondary effect. The rest is two pages of copypasta, beyond chrono getting a save buff and move buff for time magic reasons.

Is “Datasheets sux” the new go-to thread derail topic? Because sheesh, it crops up more than threads whining about the Hammerhead’s gun, of which there are plenty.