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Honestly asking as we are getting close to the end of the Edition here, only 3-4 actual "factions" left, if they Combine Knights into 1 book, and Chaos Daemons into 1 book.

I don't think they plan on doing a re-do of any supplements, as they seem to not even bother upgrading their oldest faction rules anymore. So there goes the 2.0 thinking for me.

But What faction will get the SoB treatment this edition?

It would be hilarious if they re-did the Sisters, and then dropped 10th like a month later.

My personal vote is Chaos Daemons book will be the last out of the gate, and expect 10th sometime near the Q2-3 of 2023. That's just my prediction, and I was right about Sisters in 8th-9th.

Chaos Daemons are already one book.

Feels like daemons will be last. (nobody needs a 2.0, especially not before everyone else is done).

We've had hints, rumor engines or even new models (Chaos Marines) for everything else. (Including a glancing clip of a knight during some video or other). Daemons... nada.

I'm not even sure if GW knows how to make daemons a functional army on its own. Especially monogod.

I really think they are going to announce Kasarkin as the next rumor mill reveal. Auspex Tactics did a analysis and I hope he's right. If they are re-releasing the Storm Trooper lineup, I gotta say, that is a odd direction to take.

Voss wrote:
Feels like daemons will be last. (nobody needs a 2.0, especially not before everyone else is done).

We've had hints, rumor engines or even new models (Chaos Marines) for everything else. (Including a glancing clip of a knight during some video or other). Daemons... nada.

I'm not even sure if GW knows how to make daemons a functional army on its own. Especially monogod.

I'm expecting chaos to get a dark mirror of the Armies of Faith rules printed in Vigilus Alone. With the exception of Pariah Nexus, all 9thed campaigns have had two rounds of books. If Vigilus gets a second campaign book, you're almost guaranteed to see new ways of using the multiple forces of Chaos together. Imperials can already build Torchbearer Fleets (Custodes, Marines, Admech) in addition to Armies of Faith (Sisters, Marines, Guard). I wouldn't be surprised to see a Black Crusade combo, or a monogod option that allows you to take detachments of Chaos Knights, Chaos Marines and Daemons together without losing purity traits if they are all aligned to the same god. They'd have the same limitation as Armies of Faith- one troop unit for every non-troop datacard in each of the detachments, and chapter tactic abilities swapped out for a common power related to the faith in question which changes or escalates during campaign play.

I am expecting great things from the books to come, but that's because my primary interests is Crusade and narrative content. I think that the Druhkari and Aeldari dexes provide another indicator of how multi-subfaction armies can work together in some capacity.

As for the survey, I chose other: there is no 10th because GW finally figures out that they can make as much money churning seasons as they can editions. Sure, I know it's a pipedream and it'll never happen, but I couldn't help myself.

Voss wrote:
Feels like daemons will be last. (nobody needs a 2.0, especially not before everyone else is done).

From what I heard the "2.0" books were going to technically be the 1.0 books for the chapter supplements hanging around from 8th i.e. UM, RG, IF and the like.

Voss wrote:
Feels like daemons will be last. (nobody needs a 2.0, especially not before everyone else is done).

We've had hints, rumor engines or even new models (Chaos Marines) for everything else. (Including a glancing clip of a knight during some video or other). Daemons... nada.

I'm not even sure if GW knows how to make daemons a functional army on its own. Especially monogod.

It's not about whether somebody needs or not. It's what gw figures gives best profit.

There's still just under a year and a half until 10th.

If we assume Space Marines will get their book in the late Summer/early Autumn, that's still about a year or so to fill.

World Eaters feel like they'd be the face of an edition like Death Guard were, but the rumours for them have also been ramping up recently so maybe they'll come before then.

Ok, so given GW's propensity to go hard on the SM boys, do we think any new Chapters will be announced for rules-wise? Praying for Iron Snakes, but I'd settle for the Minotaurs in 9th.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Ok, so given GW's propensity to go hard on the SM boys, do we think any new Chapters will be announced for rules-wise? Praying for Iron Snakes, but I'd settle for the Minotaurs in 9th.

Do the Minotaurs not have rules in the IA Compendium?

I wouldn't expect to see any Supplements for additional Loyalist Chapters at this time, though there's the possibility of the ones from 8th getting redone.

Right now Guard, Daemons and Space Marines 2.0 are leading the pack.
I feel it is likely we will get SM 2.0 before the end as there are models that need updated rules, they are the flagship army and the supplements need updating.
There are rumors of a major guard update coming and they have been featured in some major campaigns so...
This leaves what I think it will be Daemons who have ben kind of the red headed stepchild of 40k for a couple of editions. Personally I think they should do what they did in AoS but that's just me.

I'm thinking Guard will be last. We know Nids are imminent and Chaos are being pushed heavily by the rumor mill. We also have less specific rumors on Chaos Knights. I can't imagine Imperial Knights will be far behind them since their rules overlap so heavily.

That leaves us Chaos Daemons and Astra Militarum. I don't buy the possibility of any 2.0 books for 9th. And I think CD is more likely to come closer to the other Chaos books, assuming GW doesn't pull a Codex Aeldari and give us Codex Chaos with both the core Heretic Astartes and Daemons in one book. No rumors on that, but who knows with GW?

Regardless I think Guard need a serious overhaul to fit into the new power level and the rule writers will need a bit of time to make that work without strange power ups like improved flashlights.

 KingGarland wrote:
Right now Guard, Daemons and Space Marines 2.0 are leading the pack.
I feel it is likely we will get SM 2.0 before the end as there are models that need updated rules, they are the flagship army and the supplements need updating.
There are rumors of a major guard update coming and they have been featured in some major campaigns so...
This leaves what I think it will be Daemons who have ben kind of the red headed stepchild of 40k for a couple of editions. Personally I think they should do what they did in AoS but that's just me.

Problem there is they've walked past the opportunity to do Nurgle and Tzeentch as combined books already. And they're still obsessed with this 'army purity or set your special rules on fire' concept which still makes no sense for chaos, however many years after they carved daemons out of the Chaos codex in the first place.

alextroy wrote:Regardless I think Guard need a serious overhaul to fit into the new power level and the rule writers will need a bit of time to make that work

They've had time. Whatever direction Guard is going to go, they've decided by now, even in the off chance that the book isn't finalized (or close to it).
The Krieg models would've happened along that same production cycle, Kill Team release or not.

I've been thinking about AOS, and 40k. What if instead of making guard GUARD, they made the IG into more of like the Imperial Army faction in AOS, the one that's made up of all the different races? I forget the name. But basically, Guard is 2k points of whatever the feth you want, so long as you don't get any of their special rules, but you get a "Combined Arms Force" set of special rules, specifically designed for each type of combination. I mean it's really only 4-5 different combos.
Guard and Admech (Knights would be counted as Admech)
Guard and Astartes (all Shapes and colors)
Guard and Custodes
Guard and Sisters.

It would be pretty true to actual lore/form, and make it so Guard are a melting pot of forces, instead of a janky mess of useless never used units. I'd love to see a Space Wolves/Catachan army.

So you basically want an Imperium book focusing on Ynnari style soup rules?

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I've been thinking about AOS, and 40k. What if instead of making guard GUARD, they made the IG into more of like the Imperial Army faction in AOS, the one that's made up of all the different races? I forget the name. But basically, Guard is 2k points of whatever the feth you want, so long as you don't get any of their special rules, but you get a "Combined Arms Force" set of special rules, specifically designed for each type of combination. I mean it's really only 4-5 different combos.
Guard and Admech (Knights would be counted as Admech)
Guard and Astartes (all Shapes and colors)
Guard and Custodes
Guard and Sisters.

It would be pretty true to actual lore/form, and make it so Guard are a melting pot of forces, instead of a janky mess of useless never used units. I'd love to see a Space Wolves/Catachan army.

Umm, no. Let's not.
First off, what if someone wants to run pure IG (as they've been able to do since, what, RT? 2e for sure)? Would this book include enough options to do that? But then, why should an IG book be forced to trade precious space away to other codices if it is capable of standing alone? Why not include a page or two of special rules form the combined forces in an otherwise normal IG dex?
Second, if IG are a "janky mess of useless never used units", then that means that GW should fething fix IG. If they already can't/won't do that, then making a Ynnarial Guard is just going to end up in the same place that Ynnari were/are (unless I'm mistaken, vacillating between "incapable of functioning", "brutally overpowered", and "janky mess of useless never used units").
Third, this feels like the sort of thing where GW would interpret any changes in sales as "Oh, no one likes IG. Guess we should squat everything that's not a standard Cadian Guard squad! :^)", and we really don't need to be giving them any opportunities there.
Fourth, wasn't one of the big whines about Soup/IG from this and last edition that people could just pick and choose the good bits out of multiple codices, breaking any semblance of internal balance the codices may have had? Why would creating a codex that literally does literally nothing but that be a good idea?
Fifth, I'm pretty sure you can already do Space Wolves+Catachans by taking multiple detachments, so this seems to be trying to solve a problem that doesn't meaningfully exist (excepting being able to use superdoctrines, I guess?).
Sixth, if we're still going to do this, why stop at IG? Why not make three codices - Imperium, Chaos, and Xenos? There is plenty of lore precedent for Eldar and Tau using/manipulating Ork mercenaries, and there's certainly nothing preventing all the Chaos books from being brought together, after all.

tl;dr: I 'm unsure what doing that would fix, and I am sure it would create many more problems than it even could solve.

I should note that I'm not familiar with the AoS thing you're referring to (Free Cities? Free Guilds? I want to say it has "Free" in the name, but that's as far as my knowledge goes), and I'm assuming this mixed book would strictly replace a standalone IG codex. If that's not the case, I'd appreciate more detail on how that AoS book works.

 KingGarland wrote:
Right now Guard, Daemons and Space Marines 2.0 are leading the pack.
I feel it is likely we will get SM 2.0 before the end as there are models that need updated rules, they are the flagship army and the supplements need updating.
There are rumors of a major guard update coming and they have been featured in some major campaigns so...
This leaves what I think it will be Daemons who have ben kind of the red headed stepchild of 40k for a couple of editions. Personally I think they should do what they did in AoS but that's just me.

Sm2 would be fun. Sm will be poster boys of edition so slated for first 10th codex as well

If SM get another 2 codexes in the next 3 years I think I'm done, unless the last one removes Chapter Tactics and Combat Doctrines for good.

Nah it will make each have 4-5 rules instead

GW tends to think of the guard last. Then they drop a new edition. That is where my money lies.

SYKOJAK wrote:
GW tends to think of the guard last. Then they drop a new edition. That is where my money lies.

Cruddace, head of the rules team, is a Guard player and notorious tread head. Hes probably leaving Guard till late so that they're at the top of the power creep curve.

 Sim-Life wrote:

SYKOJAK wrote:
GW tends to think of the guard last. Then they drop a new edition. That is where my money lies.

Cruddace, head of the rules team, is a Guard player and notorious tread head. Hes probably leaving Guard till late so that they're at the top of the power creep curve.

Isn't "last codex of an edition" traditionally not a good place to be, though? Something about "one foot in old edition, one foot in new, and too recent to get a proper fix/update after the new edition drops"?

Squats.

 waefre_1 wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I've been thinking about AOS, and 40k. What if instead of making guard GUARD, they made the IG into more of like the Imperial Army faction in AOS, the one that's made up of all the different races? I forget the name. But basically, Guard is 2k points of whatever the feth you want, so long as you don't get any of their special rules, but you get a "Combined Arms Force" set of special rules, specifically designed for each type of combination. I mean it's really only 4-5 different combos.
Guard and Admech (Knights would be counted as Admech)
Guard and Astartes (all Shapes and colors)
Guard and Custodes
Guard and Sisters.

It would be pretty true to actual lore/form, and make it so Guard are a melting pot of forces, instead of a janky mess of useless never used units. I'd love to see a Space Wolves/Catachan army.

Umm, no. Let's not.
First off, what if someone wants to run pure IG (as they've been able to do since, what, RT? 2e for sure)? Would this book include enough options to do that? But then, why should an IG book be forced to trade precious space away to other codices if it is capable of standing alone? Why not include a page or two of special rules form the combined forces in an otherwise normal IG dex?
Second, if IG are a "janky mess of useless never used units", then that means that GW should fething fix IG. If they already can't/won't do that, then making a Ynnarial Guard is just going to end up in the same place that Ynnari were/are (unless I'm mistaken, vacillating between "incapable of functioning", "brutally overpowered", and "janky mess of useless never used units").
Third, this feels like the sort of thing where GW would interpret any changes in sales as "Oh, no one likes IG. Guess we should squat everything that's not a standard Cadian Guard squad! :^)", and we really don't need to be giving them any opportunities there.
Fourth, wasn't one of the big whines about Soup/IG from this and last edition that people could just pick and choose the good bits out of multiple codices, breaking any semblance of internal balance the codices may have had? Why would creating a codex that literally does literally nothing but that be a good idea?
Fifth, I'm pretty sure you can already do Space Wolves+Catachans by taking multiple detachments, so this seems to be trying to solve a problem that doesn't meaningfully exist (excepting being able to use superdoctrines, I guess?).
Sixth, if we're still going to do this, why stop at IG? Why not make three codices - Imperium, Chaos, and Xenos? There is plenty of lore precedent for Eldar and Tau using/manipulating Ork mercenaries, and there's certainly nothing preventing all the Chaos books from being brought together, after all.

tl;dr: I 'm unsure what doing that would fix, and I am sure it would create many more problems than it even could solve.

I should note that I'm not familiar with the AoS thing you're referring to (Free Cities? Free Guilds? I want to say it has "Free" in the name, but that's as far as my knowledge goes), and I'm assuming this mixed book would strictly replace a standalone IG codex. If that's not the case, I'd appreciate more detail on how that AoS book works.

How do you fix a faction with 5+ variants for every stinking base unit, that is essentially now a new unit. We don't need 3 different types of Hellhounds, 3 different types of Sentinels, 10+ (counting FW) types of LR tanks, and I think it's still 12(?) types of Baneblades? Have you ever seen a BB on a competitive table in the last 2 editions? What about Sentinels? Me neither. Same goes with all their air attack crap. Guard suffer from the second worst bloat in the game, just under Astartes. And AssTarts only take it because they had a complete 100% re-design very recently.

I don't see how anyone can justify the existence of so many useless and never purchased units? Why do we need 5+ different types of LR? Surely it's good just to have 1 AT variant, and Anti-infranty variant, and the original which threads the needle, and frankly does the job better than the other two. If you want Guard to be fixed, then drop all the bloat and make the base units really good. I can't fix all of the problems with guard, but to say it would weaken them to reduce the bloat I think is missing the point. The need better base units. Make their tanks BS3+ and make the troops BS3. Make the Scions/Kasarkin/Storm Troopers BS2, and give them all bumps in cost.

I don’t consider Leman Russ with Battlecannon a distinct unit from Leman Russ with Punisher Cannon.

Do you consider Custodian Guard with Spears a distinct unit from Custodian Guard with Swords and Shields?

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:

The need better base units. Make their tanks BS3+ and make the troops BS3. Make the Scions/Kasarkin/Storm Troopers BS2, and give them all bumps in cost.

No. Get out. If you want fething guardsmen with bs3 I'm having goddamn bs1 on my chaos marines.

will people stop devaluing gradients of hit profiles, if everything in the goddamn game hits on a 3+ we might as well get rid of the stat.

It doesn't 'fix' anything, it just makes something more reliable. Something the bog standard gak scared human isn't supposed to be.

Fezz, what are you even talking about?

There's _one_ LR datasheet and _one_ Hellhound sheet. They just have weapon swaps. No one complains that there's 12 versions of Devastators because they can switch heavy weapons.

They've even dropped the distinction between the standard chassis and Demolisher chassis.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:

 waefre_1 wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I've been thinking about AOS, and 40k. What if instead of making guard GUARD, they made the IG into more of like the Imperial Army faction in AOS, the one that's made up of all the different races? I forget the name. But basically, Guard is 2k points of whatever the feth you want, so long as you don't get any of their special rules, but you get a "Combined Arms Force" set of special rules, specifically designed for each type of combination. I mean it's really only 4-5 different combos.
Guard and Admech (Knights would be counted as Admech)
Guard and Astartes (all Shapes and colors)
Guard and Custodes
Guard and Sisters.

It would be pretty true to actual lore/form, and make it so Guard are a melting pot of forces, instead of a janky mess of useless never used units. I'd love to see a Space Wolves/Catachan army.

Umm, no. Let's not.
First off, what if someone wants to run pure IG (as they've been able to do since, what, RT? 2e for sure)? Would this book include enough options to do that? But then, why should an IG book be forced to trade precious space away to other codices if it is capable of standing alone? Why not include a page or two of special rules form the combined forces in an otherwise normal IG dex?
Second, if IG are a "janky mess of useless never used units", then that means that GW should fething fix IG. If they already can't/won't do that, then making a Ynnarial Guard is just going to end up in the same place that Ynnari were/are (unless I'm mistaken, vacillating between "incapable of functioning", "brutally overpowered", and "janky mess of useless never used units").
Third, this feels like the sort of thing where GW would interpret any changes in sales as "Oh, no one likes IG. Guess we should squat everything that's not a standard Cadian Guard squad! :^)", and we really don't need to be giving them any opportunities there.
Fourth, wasn't one of the big whines about Soup/IG from this and last edition that people could just pick and choose the good bits out of multiple codices, breaking any semblance of internal balance the codices may have had? Why would creating a codex that literally does literally nothing but that be a good idea?
Fifth, I'm pretty sure you can already do Space Wolves+Catachans by taking multiple detachments, so this seems to be trying to solve a problem that doesn't meaningfully exist (excepting being able to use superdoctrines, I guess?).
Sixth, if we're still going to do this, why stop at IG? Why not make three codices - Imperium, Chaos, and Xenos? There is plenty of lore precedent for Eldar and Tau using/manipulating Ork mercenaries, and there's certainly nothing preventing all the Chaos books from being brought together, after all.

tl;dr: I 'm unsure what doing that would fix, and I am sure it would create many more problems than it even could solve.

I should note that I'm not familiar with the AoS thing you're referring to (Free Cities? Free Guilds? I want to say it has "Free" in the name, but that's as far as my knowledge goes), and I'm assuming this mixed book would strictly replace a standalone IG codex. If that's not the case, I'd appreciate more detail on how that AoS book works.

How do you fix a faction with 5+ variants for every stinking base unit, that is essentially now a new unit. We don't need 3 different types of Hellhounds, 3 different types of Sentinels, 10+ (counting FW) types of LR tanks, and I think it's still 12(?) types of Baneblades?...

...You do realize that the only difference between the LR/HH variants is turret weapon, right? They're not even separate datasheets, excepting the FW entries (and those are all Legends). That's not "essentially a new unit" by any meaningful definition I can think of. What's really ironic is that you could've made that argument about Sentinels (which we have two of, not three - even going Legends, we still don't have three because Elysian Drop Sentinels were also a thing), but that's due to one getting +1 T/Sv and the other having Scout (which would be a meaningful enough difference that a new datasheet is acceptable, IMO). The Baneblade one you have more of a point on, but that can still be something where we condense it down to a Turreted Superheavy datasheet and a Casemate Superheavy datasheet (with options) rather than just going "lol Nick Nanavanti never bought one" and throwing the mold in a fire.

Also, you fix it the same way you fix any faction with more than three choices: competent design teams, serious playtesting, a central design philosophy for the faction, and an awareness of the state of the rest of the game. That GW chooses not to engage in this is nobody's fault but their own, and saying that a specific faction should pay for that is both vindictive and utterly pointless as a solution to the core problem.

Have you ever seen a BB on a competitive table in the last 2 editions? What about Sentinels?...Same goes with all their air attack crap.

Yes (Shadowswords early on and the transport variants), yes (Armoured are basically HWTs that can actually eat a shot, and Scouts get used for zoning/early objective grabs), and yes (apparently you don't remember twin-Punisher Vultures, and Valks are the backbone of any aircav list).

...Me neither...

Congratulations on having a boring meta?

...Guard suffer from the second worst bloat in the game, just under Astartes. And AssTarts only take it because they had a complete 100% re-design very recently...

[citation needed]
(that's not snark, I've never looked and FW will guarantee we're up there, but I'm skeptical that we're suffering from the "second worst bloat" specifically unless/until I see some numbers and a definition)

...I don't see how anyone can justify the existence of so many useless and never purchased units? Why do we need 5+ different types of LR? Surely it's good just to have 1 AT variant, and Anti-infranty variant, and the original which threads the needle, and frankly does the job better than the other two. If you want Guard to be fixed, then drop all the bloat and make the base units really good. I can't fix all of the problems with guard, but to say it would weaken them to reduce the bloat I think is missing the point. They need better base units...

Well, for a start, you are still asserting that they are useless (apparently because they're not auto-takes in competitive lists? Please correct me if I'm wrong here, because that's an absolutely garbage metric to judge whether a kit/datasheet should still exist - see Dark Eldar HQs and the pursuant salt for why). I'd argue that most of the current turret options at least have a niche, and since they're already on-sprue I don't see a need to remove them from the rules. And while I agree that the base units need some love, "broken and bloated" vs "functional and you don't even need your toes to count the number of datasheets" is a complete false dichotomy. There are always going to be redheaded stepchildren in any 'dex, that's unavoidable. But the mere existence of less-competitive but fluffy units is not an issue. I don't give a feth if they never place in a GT, I (and many others) still like Scout Salamanders and abhuman regiments and the CRASSUS ARMOURED TRANSPORT, and I can't say that I appreciate someone saying that we should lose all of those because they don't reliably get 110% RoI every match. That's shortsighted and directly attacks one of the key draws of miniature wargaming - the capacity to make an army of Your Dudes using the models/units you want rather than going to FNM but only bringing most of the same cards as everyone else rather than all of the same cards.

Also, I'm reasonably certain that every single codex has had "useless and never purchased units", sometimes even when the codex was top-tier and absolutely wrecking face, and often when the next codex/edition drops the list of units that are "useless and never purchased" changes quite drastically. So, yet again, that's a really bad metric for arguing that something should be removed outright.

...Make their tanks BS3+ and make the troops BS3. Make the Scions/Kasarkin/Storm Troopers BS2, and give them all bumps in cost.

No. No, no, no, no. I could see Tanks being BS3+ with some kind of wargear or veterancy upgrade, but one of the overarching themes of the Guard is "individually lackluster, relatively, but cheaper and more numerous". This directly contradicts that. Also, the one thing we absolutely do not need is to be more expensive. From what I hear, we're already struggling to trade evenly, and unless you plan on making system-wide rule changes to increase everyone's durability, making BS3+ Infantry Squads just means that we'd be losing a bigger chunk of our list when someone looks at that squad funny. Also, that puts Guardsmen on par with Sisters of Battle and Space Marines - I don't think either of those groups would be particularly fond of Guardsmen Joe Normalman #012416-d suddenly shooting just as well as they do, and while I'm not against using dice with more sides to give a little more granularity to stuff like this, you have to remember that stats like that exist as much as a comparison between units as anything (ie. a Gretchin is T2 and a Guardsman T3 because the Guardsman is significantly tougher than the Gretchin).

Guard are easily my fave imperial faction and the mechanics already exist to ally in others. Im not being the stereotypical conservative, change nothing ever gamer when i say no to this idea, just please no.

I think it's likely to be daemons. I'm hoping that they're leaving them to last so that they can have some integration with the various traitor legions. I would really like some capering horrors to field alongside my rubric automata.

If admech get Knights without breaking doctrines, eldar get Harlequins, Imperial factions get assassins and rogue traders, then I have my fingers crossed for chaos marines and daemons.