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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Haha

So as it’s confirmed they are coming back I thought it might be nice to have a thread about what we know of the squats as they have existed in preparation for an extension of existing lore or a full re write. Because I don’t know squat haha

All I really know is that they are evolutionary arm of humans that adapted to life on heavy G worlds. Then they disappeared and people joked that the nids ate them.

I always thought that they even led into squats from humans after the HH, as there is no mention of them in the HH but it looks like GW are preparing to say they diverged before the dark age of technology. So they’ve already been there but the emperor didn’t want to bring them into the fold or couldn’t????

I’m hoping you know more than me
   
Made in gb
Moustache-twirling Princeps




United Kingdom

Originally, some Squad Leagues sided with / joined the Imperium (and served in the Imperial Army), others remained neutral and some fell to Chaos. When they were 'squatted' they were largely written out of the background, with only occasional mentions - then the Demiurg popped and later actual Squats on Necromunda.

Spoiler:

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2022/04/02 17:12:20


 
   
Made in us
Terrifying Doombull




Squat lore is... fun. There isn't a lot of it, and at least some (if not a lot) of it was written before the HH lore. So DAoT origin doesn't seem strange to me- I'll have to dig through books- RT and the 40k compilation, and try to find the Warlords supplement for Epic.


Old lore, off the top of my head.
Stable evolution of humans (still abhumans, but like ogryns and ratlings, since they're stable without other mutations, they're not kill on sight)

They were divided into Brotherhoods and Guilds, and were subfactions with their own minimum troop and HQ requirements before subfactions were a thing. I hope this doesn't stick, because it made for odd listbuilding back in the day, and wouldn't be any better today.

Brotherhoods are basically guardsmen, but with toughness 4.

Guilds are more adventurous and that's where the bikes and trikes come in.

Squats followed their Living Ancestors, old squats who had developed psychic powers.

Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
Made in gb
Moustache-twirling Princeps




United Kingdom

Don't forget Exo-armour!
   
Made in gb
Rampaging Reaver Titan Princeps





Warwickscire

Squats were also rumoured to have perfected stable warp fusion and was coveted by the Adeptus Mechanicus (see Ganymede incident). Supposedly, the Cyclops ran its hellfury beam cannon off a warp fusion reactor

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/04/02 17:25:12


 
   
Made in sa
Aspirant Tech-Adept





Northumberland

From what I remember they were Human settlers that moved to the galactic core and settled the planets there. And then those planets were mental so they started living underground and evolved. They had lots of cool science and tech but without the mechanicum dogma. Because the planets they settled were very mineral rich they became famous traders and the guilds are linked to that. They also hate the Eldar and Orks, which is basically the WHFB Dwarves.

I don't know if the HH books made mention of the Squats? But there was definitely Chaos Squats.


One and a half feet in the hobby


My Adeptus Mechanicus Painting Log:
# The Explorator Fleet of Labrunnia IX #

 
   
Made in gb
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






This sounds like a job for…..

OWNS A LOT OF OLD BOOKS MAN!

But like, when I get in from the pub. It’s been a busy day of flat viewing, but I’ll do my best like, tomorrow or something.

Seriously. I have all the Rogue Trader era books, and Ork & Squat Warlords. And a pretty decent copy of 2nd Ed.

Please note this means I only have the information, not the knowledge. I’ll just be regurgitating, so please do not expect loony insight this time around.

But you, my dear fellow Dakkanauts, are worth it.

Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?

Pfizer vaccine administered 13:40pm 18 Feb 21. Still no second head. Second jab 13:35pm 6 May 2021. At the Masonic Hall. 
   
Made in gb
Tzeentch Veteran Marine with Psychic Potential




dorset

mrFickle wrote:
Haha

So as it’s confirmed they are coming back I thought it might be nice to have a thread about what we know of the squats as they have existed in preparation for an extension of existing lore or a full re write. Because I don’t know squat haha

All I really know is that they are evolutionary arm of humans that adapted to life on heavy G worlds. Then they disappeared and people joked that the nids ate them.

I always thought that they even led into squats from humans after the HH, as there is no mention of them in the HH but it looks like GW are preparing to say they diverged before the dark age of technology. So they’ve already been there but the emperor didn’t want to bring them into the fold or couldn’t????

I’m hoping you know more than me


pretty much what the others have said. they are a stable, "permitted" offshoot of humanity, located on mineral rich, high G worlds near the core. they are organised along tribal lines with the guilds in charge of the technology. They diverged either the very end of the dark age of technology or early age of strife, and survived the Age of strife more or less intact. I think they were semi-independent, like the Admech forge worlds, or the Knight worlds, officially part of the imperium, but granted special privileges that set them apart. Most of their lore was basically "fantasy dwarves IN SPACE!!", to be honest.

the modern Horus heresy lore completely ignores them as they just weren't "official" when it was (re)written.


on the tabletop, they had a mix of fairly standard guardsmen level infantry, backed up by both bike/trike mounted units and egg shaped exo armour teams. they were expanded somewhat in Epic, with a emphasis on superheavy vehicles like the land train, but that dont really translate down to 40k scale well.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/04/02 19:40:20


Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an` Tommy, 'ow's yer soul? "
But it's " Thin red line of 'eroes " when the drums begin to roll
The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
O it's " Thin red line of 'eroes, " when the drums begin to roll.
"Tommy", Rudyard Kipling
Exporitor force kappa-Tercia 500pts Coven of XVth 1000pts
Western Host 1500 pts Watch Company Rho 1000pts
 
   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut




They were humans that settled mineral rich high-G worlds, more densely clustered near the core. Over time they were cut off from the rest of humanity during the Age of Strife. Their worlds were hostile and so they became insular, forming clans and guilds, with convoys like Land Trains keeping settlements in contact. By the time contact was re-established, they were the Squats, and were classified as a stable form of Abhuman, like Ogryns.

They hated Orks (the old Dwarf vs Ork trope) due to the Orks attacking their settlements repeatedly. They disliked Eldar because they had called on the Eldar to aid them (back when they had better trading relationships) but the Eldar did not so now they bear a grudge (again the old antipathy of Dwarf vs Elf).

They were non-psychic as a race until they got very old when they were revered as Living Ancestors. They were practical in their tech, though back in the day this differed relatively little from Imperial tech.

In actual 40K scale they were mostly Guardsmen equivalent that were short, slow, but tougher. Their heaviest armor was similar to Terminator Armor but was called Ex-Armor and they looked a bit like Faberge eggs. These had a power-axe and bolter as standard.

In Epic they had more variety of stuff but this stuff was mostly not suitable for 40K scale. The Goliath Mega Cannon was a massive fixed artillery piece that had massive range but with a minimum range and vulnerable at close quarters (thus not suitable for a 40K board). They had the Squat Land Train, which was basically a tank-like engine pulling a series of battle cars. One battle car was a transport with light weaponry, another had a flamethrower like an inferno cannon, one had a one use rad bomb/missile, and one was a basic mortar car. There was one with light weapons but more void shields for the train as a whole. The problem was the entire Train could be immobilized if the front engine was destroyed and it was only a tank equivalent with a few void shields.

For flyers they had the Overlord Gunship which was an armored flying blimp. Slow for a flyer and the amount of firepower was not that special. Gyrocopters were the other main Squat flyer and they were used to spot for the other Squat artillery units.

Superheavies they had the Colossus and the Cyclops. The Colossus was basically an Imperial Leviathan refitted with more weaponry instead of having any transport. The Cyclops was a Titan-killer with its Hellfury cannon, which could drill through multiple void shields in one hit, whereas most weapons could at most knock down 1 shield per hit.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut






I love it except I wish they could fix some of the factions they already have a little better first

It's kind of like "Oh I know some things really suck but HEY! Look at this new shiny!"
   
Made in us
The Conquerer






Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

They'll probably just shoehorn them in like this,

"A handful of Squat homeworlds found themselves isolated from the Imperium at large in the 33rd millennium. After the rift which split the galaxy in two, suddenly these planets found that they could once again find stable warp travel and made contact with the Imperium."

I suspect they'll make some of the clans side with the Imperium and Mechanicus. Others will strike out on their own. Others may fall to chaos. They'll probably have their own version of the Imperial creed and worship him as an exalted ancestor.

Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! 
   
Made in sa
Aspirant Tech-Adept





Northumberland

 Grey Templar wrote:
They'll probably just shoehorn them in like this,

"A handful of Squat homeworlds found themselves isolated from the Imperium at large in the 33rd millennium. After the rift which split the galaxy in two, suddenly these planets found that they could once again find stable warp travel and made contact with the Imperium."

I suspect they'll make some of the clans side with the Imperium and Mechanicus. Others will strike out on their own. Others may fall to chaos. They'll probably have their own version of the Imperial creed and worship him as an exalted ancestor.



I mean most of what you said is the established lore on Squats. So is it shoehorning something that has existed since the beginning?

One and a half feet in the hobby


My Adeptus Mechanicus Painting Log:
# The Explorator Fleet of Labrunnia IX #

 
   
Made in us
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord






Iracundus wrote:
The Goliath Mega Cannon was a massive fixed artillery piece that had massive range but with a minimum range and vulnerable at close quarters (thus not suitable for a 40K board).


Reminder that both the Basilisk and Deathstrike have existed in 40k for some time. If those can exist in 40k, then that can too.


Games Workshop Delenda Est.

If you break apart my or anyone else's posts line by line I will not read them. 
   
Made in us
Terrifying Doombull




 Grimtuff wrote:
Iracundus wrote:
The Goliath Mega Cannon was a massive fixed artillery piece that had massive range but with a minimum range and vulnerable at close quarters (thus not suitable for a 40K board).


Reminder that both the Basilisk and Deathstrike have existed in 40k for some time. If those can exist in 40k, then that can too.


Well, they do... but... I really don't think that either is a direction to pursue or a good thing to propagate.
Every time I see a (Catachan) Basilisk detachment tucked against the board edge and firing sideways I wince. Its basically the posterchild for everything that went wrong with this edition in terms of LoS, board layout, terrain and vehicles.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/04/03 15:47:41


Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
Made in us
Terminator with Assault Cannon




San Jose, CA

4x8 it make a little more sense but yes the ranges and actual battlefield placement is a bit ridiculous.

Those basilisk & manticores should be like 25 feet away for it to even be roughly scale to what the range of even modern artillery is. But 40k has never worked in a scaling sense anyway.

   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut






Voss wrote:
 Grimtuff wrote:
Iracundus wrote:
The Goliath Mega Cannon was a massive fixed artillery piece that had massive range but with a minimum range and vulnerable at close quarters (thus not suitable for a 40K board).


Reminder that both the Basilisk and Deathstrike have existed in 40k for some time. If those can exist in 40k, then that can too.


Well, they do... but... I really don't think that either is a direction to pursue or a good thing to propagate.
Every time I see a (Catachan) Basilisk detachment tucked against the board edge and firing sideways I wince. Its basically the posterchild for everything that went wrong with this edition in terms of LoS, board layout, terrain and vehicles.

This. Ranges of all units and some movement values have to be revisited to match the smaller board.
   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut




The Goliath Mega Cannon was more like the WW2 railway guns Gustav or Dora. Its minimum range would be more like an entire 40K board.

It is the same illogic of having Deathstrike launchers launching missiles to land on the same 40K board as itself. On Epic scale, maybe you could get away with rationalizing it, but 40K board is basically Epic close combat range.
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Master with Gauntlets of Macragge





Upstate, New York

Iracundus wrote:
The Goliath Mega Cannon was more like the WW2 railway guns Gustav or Dora. Its minimum range would be more like an entire 40K board.

It is the same illogic of having Deathstrike launchers launching missiles to land on the same 40K board as itself. On Epic scale, maybe you could get away with rationalizing it, but 40K board is basically Epic close combat range.


If they do make something like that for 40k scale, it would be nice if they just ignored the main gun for most games. Just have stats for the secondary defensive guns (which could still be formidable) and the chassis.

Have the big stuff in a sidebar. “If playing on a massive table in a apocalyptic battle, here are the stats/min range, add x hundred points and have fun”

If you are playing on a smaller scale you can assume the gun is still firing, just at something outside the scope of the game. But gives a nice focus for the battle; silence/defend the big gun.

   
Made in us
The Conquerer






Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

 Olthannon wrote:
 Grey Templar wrote:
They'll probably just shoehorn them in like this,

"A handful of Squat homeworlds found themselves isolated from the Imperium at large in the 33rd millennium. After the rift which split the galaxy in two, suddenly these planets found that they could once again find stable warp travel and made contact with the Imperium."

I suspect they'll make some of the clans side with the Imperium and Mechanicus. Others will strike out on their own. Others may fall to chaos. They'll probably have their own version of the Imperial creed and worship him as an exalted ancestor.



I mean most of what you said is the established lore on Squats. So is it shoehorning something that has existed since the beginning?


The shoehorned part is "Oh, they were always here, just isolated and cutoff till some convenient thing conveniently let them make contact again..."

Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





I thought that the lore said they were wiped out by the tyranids? Is that part being retconned now?

I really hope they try to respect the prior lore on this. They could very easily describe the new squats as the last survivors of the tyranid apocalypse. Kind of rare like eldar are.
   
Made in nz
Longtime Dakkanaut





Auckland, NZ

 Dekskull wrote:
I thought that the lore said they were wiped out by the tyranids? Is that part being retconned now?

I really hope they try to respect the prior lore on this. They could very easily describe the new squats as the last survivors of the tyranid apocalypse. Kind of rare like eldar are.

The lore never really stated that the squats had been wiped out by the tyranids. Rather that came from a few off-hand comments made over the years by people working at GW. So it's kind of official enough, but at the same time there aren't any novels or anything detailing the downfall of the squat race which would need to be retconned into not happening. It's more that GW just stopped writing about squats, and when asked about it responded with "eh, nids ate em".

The Lexicanum article on squats has quite a long section covering the development of the faction, which discusses it in some detail: https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Squat

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2022/04/04 02:05:22


 
   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut




Arson Fire wrote:
 Dekskull wrote:
I thought that the lore said they were wiped out by the tyranids? Is that part being retconned now?

I really hope they try to respect the prior lore on this. They could very easily describe the new squats as the last survivors of the tyranid apocalypse. Kind of rare like eldar are.

The lore never really stated that the squats had been wiped out by the tyranids. Rather that came from a few off-hand comments made over the years by people working at GW. So it's kind of official enough, but at the same time there aren't any novels or anything detailing the downfall of the squat race which would need to be retconned into not happening. It's more that GW just stopped writing about squats, and when asked about it responded with "eh, nids ate em".

The Lexicanum article on squats has quite a long section covering the development of the faction, which discusses it in some detail: https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Squat


Actually it did. The reprint of the Ian Watson Inquisitor novel had a new added foreword saying that the Squats were wiped out by the Tyranids. So it is more than just random comments but something that actually saw print. I have seen it, flipped through it. Of course, GW can easily retcon that away as well and pretend it never happened or that the Administratum got it wrong.

In the Psychic Awakening books, there is a little teaser blurb of an Imperial ship encountering what are presumably the Squats and disbelieving because they were thought to be extinct. So that retcon could already have an in-universe basis.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/04/04 07:32:05


 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Iracundus wrote:
Arson Fire wrote:
 Dekskull wrote:
I thought that the lore said they were wiped out by the tyranids? Is that part being retconned now?

I really hope they try to respect the prior lore on this. They could very easily describe the new squats as the last survivors of the tyranid apocalypse. Kind of rare like eldar are.

The lore never really stated that the squats had been wiped out by the tyranids. Rather that came from a few off-hand comments made over the years by people working at GW. So it's kind of official enough, but at the same time there aren't any novels or anything detailing the downfall of the squat race which would need to be retconned into not happening. It's more that GW just stopped writing about squats, and when asked about it responded with "eh, nids ate em".

The Lexicanum article on squats has quite a long section covering the development of the faction, which discusses it in some detail: https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Squat


Actually it did. The reprint of the Ian Watson Inquisitor novel had a new added foreword saying that the Squats were wiped out by the Tyranids. So it is more than just random comments but something that actually saw print. I have seen it, flipped through it. Of course, GW can easily retcon that away as well and pretend it never happened or that the Administratum got it wrong.

In the Psychic Awakening books, there is a little teaser blurb of an Imperial ship encountering what are presumably the Squats and disbelieving because they were thought to be extinct. So that retcon could already have an in-universe basis.


Someone mentioned in the rumour thread that a later reprint of Inquisitor/Draco took the ‘eaten by the nids’ statement out as it was incorrect author commentary which hadn’t been checked properly.
   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut




Lord Zarkov wrote:
Iracundus wrote:
Arson Fire wrote:
 Dekskull wrote:
I thought that the lore said they were wiped out by the tyranids? Is that part being retconned now?

I really hope they try to respect the prior lore on this. They could very easily describe the new squats as the last survivors of the tyranid apocalypse. Kind of rare like eldar are.

The lore never really stated that the squats had been wiped out by the tyranids. Rather that came from a few off-hand comments made over the years by people working at GW. So it's kind of official enough, but at the same time there aren't any novels or anything detailing the downfall of the squat race which would need to be retconned into not happening. It's more that GW just stopped writing about squats, and when asked about it responded with "eh, nids ate em".

The Lexicanum article on squats has quite a long section covering the development of the faction, which discusses it in some detail: https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Squat


Actually it did. The reprint of the Ian Watson Inquisitor novel had a new added foreword saying that the Squats were wiped out by the Tyranids. So it is more than just random comments but something that actually saw print. I have seen it, flipped through it. Of course, GW can easily retcon that away as well and pretend it never happened or that the Administratum got it wrong.

In the Psychic Awakening books, there is a little teaser blurb of an Imperial ship encountering what are presumably the Squats and disbelieving because they were thought to be extinct. So that retcon could already have an in-universe basis.


Someone mentioned in the rumour thread that a later reprint of Inquisitor/Draco took the ‘eaten by the nids’ statement out as it was incorrect author commentary which hadn’t been checked properly.


I highly doubt that. The insertion was most likely at the behest of GW to try and cram the story (written when there were Squats) into the continuity which at that time had no Squats, and then later any removal was likely also due to GW. I don't think the author would have cared to take the initiative to insert a new foreword to a title written decades ago, let alone have editors miss the insertion of a new foreword in its entirety.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2022/04/04 12:55:29


 
   
Made in se
Dakka Veteran




Sweden

I've corresponded a bit with Ian Watson via e-mail. Heaped compliments on him for Space Marine and asked if he had any plans to revisit Warhammer 40'000, maybe even as an openly stated heretical book filled with bonkers stuff.

He found the idea tempting, but answered that he must resist the notion. He was not happy with the amount of meddling, changing of already published titles and pushback he had received from the tech-priest game developers.

Any author commentary about Squats was guaranteed to have come out of his contacts at Games Workshop, and not something random on his own initiative. He would not voluntarily change a finished title.

Besides, the TTS parody review of Inquisitor had the Emperor call the Squat the only redeemable character in the entire novel.

And now Homo Sapiens Rotundus are back! One wonders if Deep Rock Galactic has had any influence here.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2022/04/04 11:14:48


   
Made in gb
Utilizing Careful Highlighting




U.k

They seem to have confirmed that squats and demiurg are different on WHC. And have been for a wee while.

“**** The Book of Judgement confirmed that Squat prospectors are still around, and buying energy drills from Demiurg.”
   
Made in gb
Battleship Captain





Bristol (UK)

Interesting, they made a big point to labour "are squats and demiurg the same afterall?" in the article.
Sounds like WarCom to slip up and undermine their own bs lol.
   
Made in fi
5th God of Chaos (O'rly?)





 Grimtuff wrote:
Iracundus wrote:
The Goliath Mega Cannon was a massive fixed artillery piece that had massive range but with a minimum range and vulnerable at close quarters (thus not suitable for a 40K board).


Reminder that both the Basilisk and Deathstrike have existed in 40k for some time. If those can exist in 40k, then that can too.


Well...We are talking about artirelly piece that would super heavy...With long minimum range. Like get within bolter range and you are safe.

2022 painted/bought: 307/419 
   
Made in gb
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






Tomorrow night I’ll dig out the Ork & Squat Warlords book, which is, to the best of my knowledge, the last published source of Squat background. Being 2nd Ed Epic, it straddles that odd period between “wheeeeeeee we’ve no idea what we’re doing!” Rogue Trader background and the “quick, everyone to the rational pumps” 2nd Edition 40K.

Expect a bunch of verbatim blurbs about the unit types, and probably a potted version of their wider background because I can’t be arsed to type it all out.

Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?

Pfizer vaccine administered 13:40pm 18 Feb 21. Still no second head. Second jab 13:35pm 6 May 2021. At the Masonic Hall. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





 kirotheavenger wrote:
Interesting, they made a big point to labour "are squats and demiurg the same afterall?" in the article.
Sounds like WarCom to slip up and undermine their own bs lol.


Maybe the way to think about it is we aren’t getting squats we’re getting the leagues of votann. The demiurg and the leagues of votann might both be squats but that is just a human slang word for the particular a human type. I’d think of them like craft worlds and harlequins.

That’s my guess based on what I read
   
 
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