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The primarchs were scattered, that’s the word that is used. Scattered, in my mind, implies a level of chaos or randomness to it, like dropping a handful of marbles onto the floor. They will go off in unpredictable directions.

So we’re the primarchs scattered randomly, landing on planets by chance or we’re they placed in certain locations by the Choas forces that scattered them.

Some of the traitor primarchs have origin stories that contributed significantly to their turning traitor which seems convenient, but maybe it’s just a convenient tool for telling a tragedy type story.

However I also think I understand that is space is massive and mostly empty so if you scattered 20 pods that are sort of human size through space the chances of all of them hitting anything is infinitely small.

However that would also mean that the loyalists were intentionally placed as well.

I also note that they were only scattered through space and not through time which I believe is within the powers of chaos, for example the fallen were scattered through space and time

ive always assumed the "managing to land on a planet" thing was just a plot convenience, as overlookable as the ability of 1000 man frist founding chapters to be significant numbers at 7 systems at once. it's needed for the plot, the alternatives are just boring, so we can just gloss over the improbability and move on.


ultimately, we have no way of knowing whether the planets the landed on were "truly" random, of if their is a level of fate in it. HOWEVER, the repeated coincidences of primarchs landing on planets that suited their personality STRONGLY suggests the latter. The Khan lands of a planet of horsemen, Magnus on a psyker-lead planet, etc.

Ive seen it suggested that Cegorach, the harlequin god, "switched" two of the primarchs around (specifically, khan and Fulgrim).

my theory is that the Emps and the Chaos gods both had some ability to influence the destination worlds, and each tried to land them on planets that would suit them. they may not have had total control, but were able to steer them towards worlds that would either lead them towards the emperors ideals or chaos.

We know the scattering was not random, as Fulgrim and the Khan were intended for each other's planet but were switched by an unknown warp entity (many people theorize that it was Cegorach).

The other argument I have seen proposed is that the Primarchs were very plastic, in the sense that they were shaped by whatever the environment they landed in, far more so than a regular human. Lorgar became hyper religious because he landed on a world that was a theocracy, Magnus became so highly psychic because he grew up in a society of psykers, and so on for all of the others.

That's what happened to the two lost primarchs!

They accidentally got tossed into stars and burnt up.

 krijthebold wrote:
That's what happened to the two lost primarchs!

They accidentally got tossed into stars and burnt up.

We know that’s not true though for at least one of them


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Iracundus wrote:
The other argument I have seen proposed is that the Primarchs were very plastic, in the sense that they were shaped by whatever the environment they landed in, far more so than a regular human. Lorgar became hyper religious because he landed on a world that was a theocracy, Magnus became so highly psychic because he grew up in a society of psykers, and so on for all of the others.

Believable but it still requires a primarch to be sent to the planet that Lorgar landed on as that’s the Choas gods foot in the door with the prinarchs


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 Gert wrote:

Spoiler:

In Saturnine it is explained that the Primarchs were scattered by a Perpetual named Erda, a close confidant, and ally of the Emperor who seemed to be the intended "mother" of the Primarchs. She was unknowingly manipulated by the Dark Gods who stoked her fears of her "children" becoming monsters (lmao), so Erda opened a Warp portal to scatter the pods across the galaxy. Whether it was Erda who specifically sent each pod to a specific place or the Gods or whatever else is left unclear.

Do we know why the Choas gods were bothered by the primarchs, they were created to bring incredible levels of violence to the galaxy, you’d have thought khorne would be all about that

It wasn't so much the Primarchs but the Emperor. He stole a measure of their power to help boost His own abilities and aid in the creation of the Primarchs. He made a bargain then broke it so the Dark Gods messed with him.

I think the Primarchs were also a major threat to the dark gods. Yes they would reach out to conquer the galaxy, but they'd be doing so to unite the galaxy.

Its not really the Primarchs themselves though, just what the Emperor would do with them. The Imperium still conquered the Solar System and thousands of other worlds without all the Primarchs but its obvious they just kind of speed up the process. Everything the Emperor did was to starve the Gods of power through worship and the Primarchs were just another tool in the belt, an important tool but a tool nonetheless.

Sounds like a distinction without a difference to me.
Surely a nail is right to fear the hammer, even if it's just a tool to the master.

The Emperor was going to do His big jaunt with or without the Primarchs though, He just saw a way to make it go a bit quicker. The whole thing with the Gods might have not even been an issue if the Emperor hadn't made his bargain in the first place but we'll never know.

 Gert wrote:
The Emperor was going to do His big jaunt with or without the Primarchs though, He just saw a way to make it go a bit quicker. The whole thing with the Gods might have not even been an issue if the Emperor hadn't made his bargain in the first place but we'll never know.

I’d argue it forced The Emperor to scatter his forces more than was absolutely necessary.

I mean, if he’d had all 20 with him from the beginning? He could’ve done spheres of influence, with each Legion expanding its numbers and resources as it progressed, ensuring it could leave sufficient garrisons/staging points as it went.

Instead we see a relative scattering in search of the Primarchs, which seems somewhat less than ideal.


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I guess there’d also be less internal trouble between Terran and Homeworld recruits, at least arguably originally?

One advantage of the scattering is that with the majority of Legionnaires being drawn from the Primarch’s homeworld, that Primarch was tied to their culture, and likely well respected before anyone knew exactly what they were.

I could make the loose argument that the Legions as we know them now would be very, very different without the scattering. Their idiosyncrasies, tied as they were to the Primarch’s cultural upbringing, simply may not exist at all.

There is a counter argument that had the Homeworlds eventually become Homeworlds (Baal, Fenris etc), it might’ve happened anyway. But I suspect if Terra was the Homeworld for all 20 Primarch’s, they’d be much reduced if they existed at all.

Would that make the various Legions lesser in individual effectiveness, who knows? Seems a bloody good discussion topic though!

The strategic goals of the exisiting Crusade don't really make much of a difference when the end game was always the same, unit humanity under the Imperium, purge the Xenos and usher humanity into an age of secular enlightenment until its realisation as a fully psychic species.
I'm not denying the Primarch Project was important because it was, just that if the Emperor had never gone through with the Primarchs then He would still have done the Great Crusade. The point being that the Dark Gods weren't afraid of the Primarchs, just the Emperor's plan for humanity. Everything else is just a means to an end for both the Emperor and the Pantheon.

 kirotheavenger wrote:
I think the Primarchs were also a major threat to the dark gods. Yes they would reach out to conquer the galaxy, but they'd be doing so to unite the galaxy.

But it is the existence of beings like humans that feeds the chaos gods, unless there was a plan to rid humanity of war, decay, excess and deceit despite that being in their nature. I think the emperor just thought that fi the gods weren’t worshipped they wouldn’t interact with humanity but that’s not how it works


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With regards to the legions, didn’t we learn recently that the Astarte were only created using the genetic material of the primarchs because the primarchs disappeared? Without the scattering there would be no astartes because the plan was for the primarchs to lead human armies.

Or have I miss understood

I always thought the intention was armies of primarchs, but with them scattered most of the data was lost so they went to Astartes as the backup plan.
Hence they're all made with primarch DNA, often imperfectly

 kirotheavenger wrote:
I always thought the intention was armies of primarchs, but with them scattered most of the data was lost so they went to Astartes as the backup plan.
Hence they're all made with primarch DNA, often imperfectly

Well. Here. I guess….potentially?

The Primarchs are clearly still the absolute pinnacle of humanity’s genecrafting ability at the time. And as I’ve argued since Primaris came along and put a bee in the bonnet, the original Astartes were only a bodge job. The makings of a bad situation.

To support my position, if I may I’ll point you in two directions.

The first would be The Thunder Warriors. Far less than a Primarch (laughably so), but far more, individually, than an Astartes. And for the most part murdered to death until they’re not alive anymore on account be being killed until they’d snuffed it to death.

The other? Custodes. Superior to all The Emperor’s genetic creations barring the Primarchs.

We know the Astartes were a rush job. Big E’s best effort at salvaging the Primarch Project. And as bodge “well they’ll have to do. For Now” job, they worked out pretty well, Heresy not withstanding.

But to see the originals as a finished job, had Big E nowt wound up all quadraspazzed seems…..short sighted to say the least. The Primaris project is absolutely, 100% not an original work by Cawl. Rather, he had access to the tech and, perhaps heretically the minds of others. He didn’t create anything. At all. He simply continued as best he could. That he could create tens if not thousands of Primaris and their shiny new war machines? Welcome to a war effort 10,0000 or so years in the making entirely insulated from attrition.

Sorry. I whimbrled.

The Astartes project was in conjunction with the Primarch project. The idea being the Primarchs would lead the Legion that was made from their genetics. Having the Primarchs present meant that there would be a purer source to create geneseed from, it's the Sangprimus Portum was important for the Primaris project since it contained untainted sources of the Primarchs DNA. Its why whenever a Primarch was found, the Legion numbers jumped considerably as they had a pure source of DNA to create more Astartes from.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 kirotheavenger wrote:
I always thought the intention was armies of primarchs, but with them scattered most of the data was lost so they went to Astartes as the backup plan.
Hence they're all made with primarch DNA, often imperfectly

Well. Here. I guess….potentially?

The Primarchs are clearly still the absolute pinnacle of humanity’s genecrafting ability at the time. And as I’ve argued since Primaris came along and put a bee in the bonnet, the original Astartes were only a bodge job. The makings of a bad situation.

To support my position, if I may I’ll point you in two directions.

The first would be The Thunder Warriors. Far less than a Primarch (laughably so), but far more, individually, than an Astartes. And for the most part murdered to death until they’re not alive anymore on account be being killed until they’d snuffed it to death.

The other? Custodes. Superior to all The Emperor’s genetic creations barring the Primarchs.

We know the Astartes were a rush job. Big E’s best effort at salvaging the Primarch Project. And as bodge “well they’ll have to do. For Now” job, they worked out pretty well, Heresy not withstanding.

But to see the originals as a finished job, had Big E nowt wound up all quadraspazzed seems…..short sighted to say the least. The Primaris project is absolutely, 100% not an original work by Cawl. Rather, he had access to the tech and, perhaps heretically the minds of others. He didn’t create anything. At all. He simply continued as best he could. That he could create tens if not thousands of Primaris and their shiny new war machines? Welcome to a war effort 10,0000 or so years in the making entirely insulated from attrition.

Sorry. I whimbrled.

My headcanon is that Primaris are essentially the same as the super Astartes that Corax made with the container of Primarch DNA in one of the HH books prior to the Alpha Legion poisoning it and them turning into monsters.

The description is very similar,

One of the general tenants of magic is 'like attracts like' which is the whole property behind sympathetic magic

so i wouldn't be surprised if this is one of the reasons the primarchs all(?) ended up on inhabited planets rather than floating about in deep space, and perhaps planets with populations who 'matched' with them, amplifying both their strengths and flaws,

if they hadn't they might have had a better chance of ending up more balanced individuals father than the deeply flawed messes at least some of them became