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ive been away from the hobby for a number of years and was wondering if forgeworld models are still legal for tournaments im especially interested in wraithseers does anyone know or can you point me in the right direction

As the years have passed Forgeworld has gone from a pure exclusive luxury product to a much more mainstream one in GW games. The rules for FW models are now even done by the same rules team and, broadly speaking, they are accepted at most events now.

Heck GW has even started selling some of the FW models through their main website over the last few months.


So in general I would expect most events to accept them. Each event IS its own thing and is free to manage itself how they choose. So you could also ask around at your local event organisers to find out the answer; however most major ones and most clubs now accept FW as normal.

Always double-check to be safe but there should be no reason why FW models/units would be banned from a tournament or even just regular games.
If anything FW stuff is more balanced than GW at this point lol.

Basically check with the Store/Tournament

My local GW before they stopped all play in store banned Forgeworld models from the store, it is up to the individual managers if they allow it, but as they cant be ordered in store until recently they don't count towards the store stats and targets. Basically they don't want people seeing models in store that cant be bought in store.

Similar my LFGS bans Forgeworld for normal pickup/game night as the discount they can offer is tiny ans apparently they have had so many problems with FW QA and returns in the past that they don't want to deal with FW ever again, they do allow during their tournaments though. There reasoning is the same, you can play in store with any models they can order/get or are OOP, otherwise they are banned.

MaleficentRuler wrote:


Similar my LFGS bans Forgeworld for normal pickup/game night as the discount they can offer is tiny ans apparently they have had so many problems with FW QA and returns in the past that they don't want to deal with FW ever again, they do allow during their tournaments though. There reasoning is the same, you can play in store with any models they can order/get or are OOP, otherwise they are banned.

FW doesn't sell trade at all. If your local store supplied it then they were paying full retail price to get it. So either they were taking zero profit or putting a markup on it or even taking a loss.

It's so crazy to me that a GW manager wouldn't allow FW product. I've been a regular at GWs in 3 different states now with about 7-8 different managers and none of them ever had a policy like that. At the one in Alabama, we played huge Apoc games with tons of FW titans all over the table. My local one in Naples, the manager had a Tyranids army with all the FW models and our necromunda campaign was full of FW stuff

It's weird but IMO it's a result of the aggressive sales policy that was hammered in at a certain point. Managers couldn't sell the thing so they couldn't have the thing be shown. It's not just a manager thing, sometimes sales staff were curt with us when we played HH in the store using 100% GW (not a FW model in sight) armies because, and I quote, "It's not a GW game". They got told by the manager to pack it in because we were still buying 40k, AoS, LotR, and whatever else the shop supplied hobby-wise, and a lot of our HH purchases were based on the stuff they sold in store.
Both the managers of my local have always allowed FW models because it's still a GW product.

It seems like the obvious solution there is to allow FW models to be ordered at the computer terminal in store just like you can do with GW models. Manager gets the credit for the sale which he might have been instrumental in securing, customer gets to play with their fancy, expensive resin toys in store, everyone wins. Of course the GW way is to both punish the players who dared to buy their even more expensive luxury boutique line, and the managers who would be happy to push more sales of said line if it counted towards their sales numbers...

The store doesn't get the credit for online sales IIRC so even if FW was put on it wouldn't matter.

 Gert wrote:
The store doesn't get the credit for online sales IIRC so even if FW was put on it wouldn't matter.

Stores do get credit for things ordered on the store computer; its how they can earn on pre-order day if you go in store and order pre-orders; and also make orders for things the store hasn't got in stock on the day.

In practice FW models shouldn't be used in tournaments because no stratagems work on them and their rules barely ever get updated, which means 97% of them are garbage (except for a brief period when the Custodes FW list got a mid-edition update in 8th, or when the writers on SM book 2 forgot that giving stratagems to the "Dreadnaught" keyword meant they worked on Leviathans, which led to them being really good for about two weeks and a pile of renewed "ban all FW!" hate).

 Gert wrote:
The store doesn't get the credit for online sales IIRC so even if FW was put on it wouldn't matter.

They get credit for anything ordered on their computer in store. I remember the Alabama manager being especially frustrated with that because we would have a big apoc game with titans, someone else would want to order a titan but had to go home and do it. So store manager facilitated a $1,000 sale and got no credit for it.

Heads up:

I love the Wraithseer too, but I remember some changes to its rules that happened when GW took over the rule-writing piece. I think (but am probably wrong, so double check) it dropped below 10 wounds and I think it became elite instead of HQ. Just want to make sure you don't buy a bunch of stuff to field a unit that you remember behaving a certain way, only to find that its rules have changed significantly.

And to back up Toofast- yes, for sure if the order is placed in the store, they get credit- I have received collector coins as a result of online purchases made in-store.

Toofast wrote:
It's so crazy to me that a GW manager wouldn't allow FW product. I've been a regular at GWs in 3 different states now with about 7-8 different managers and none of them ever had a policy like that. At the one in Alabama, we played huge Apoc games with tons of FW titans all over the table. My local one in Naples, the manager had a Tyranids army with all the FW models and our necromunda campaign was full of FW stuff

Remember that your community is not necessarily the same as someone else's.

I've been to a few that disallowed FW because of people steering others towards buying from recasters rather than buying from FW. It became easier to just ban than it was to try to quash the recaster talk.

 AnomanderRake wrote:
In practice FW models shouldn't be used in tournaments because no stratagems work on them and their rules barely ever get updated, which means 97% of them are garbage (except for a brief period when the Custodes FW list got a mid-edition update in 8th, or when the writers on SM book 2 forgot that giving stratagems to the "Dreadnaught" keyword meant they worked on Leviathans, which led to them being really good for about two weeks and a pile of renewed "ban all FW!" hate).

Huh? Lots of stratagems work on fw units. In fact, there's a stratagem for some CSM fw units in the Compendium.

@PenitentJake: Waithseers are Heavy Support now, and going to 9W is a bit of a buff, because it stops them from degrading. If that helps.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
In practice FW models shouldn't be used in tournaments because no stratagems work on them and their rules barely ever get updated, which means 97% of them are garbage (except for a brief period when the Custodes FW list got a mid-edition update in 8th, or when the writers on SM book 2 forgot that giving stratagems to the "Dreadnaught" keyword meant they worked on Leviathans, which led to them being really good for about two weeks and a pile of renewed "ban all FW!" hate).

Huh? Lots of stratagems work on fw units. In fact, there's a stratagem for some CSM fw units in the Compendium.

@PenitentJake: Waithseers are Heavy Support now, and going to 9W is a bit of a buff, because it stops them from degrading. If that helps.

Indeed. It's not 7th edition anymore where FW units weren't included in formations so you could hardly fit them in a list without breaking your detachment.

Sgt. Cortez wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
In practice FW models shouldn't be used in tournaments because no stratagems work on them and their rules barely ever get updated, which means 97% of them are garbage (except for a brief period when the Custodes FW list got a mid-edition update in 8th, or when the writers on SM book 2 forgot that giving stratagems to the "Dreadnaught" keyword meant they worked on Leviathans, which led to them being really good for about two weeks and a pile of renewed "ban all FW!" hate).

Huh? Lots of stratagems work on fw units. In fact, there's a stratagem for some CSM fw units in the Compendium.

@PenitentJake: Waithseers are Heavy Support now, and going to 9W is a bit of a buff, because it stops them from degrading. If that helps.

Indeed. It's not 7th edition anymore where FW units weren't included in formations so you could hardly fit them in a list without breaking your detachment.

Aye, just one of the many reasons that I didn't like using the Night Lords formation in Traitor Legions. I much preferred playing with the models that I liked, than getting "free" rules for using the ones that gw wanted me to use.

 Overread wrote:

 Gert wrote:
The store doesn't get the credit for online sales IIRC so even if FW was put on it wouldn't matter.

Stores do get credit for things ordered on the store computer; its how they can earn on pre-order day if you go in store and order pre-orders; and also make orders for things the store hasn't got in stock on the day.

I'm not sure that's the case with FW.
I wanted to order some stuff through my local GW and pay cash, they basicaly said that id need to do it by card and at that point im better off ordering myself as they cant put a cash order through, so it doesn't go through their GW tills.

The FW GW relationship is odd.

Argive, Gert was stating that the store didn't get credit for GW online sales, so allowing people to order FW through the same computer wouldn't help anything.

Fortunately, this initial assertion was incorrect.

Stealer wrote:
ive been away from the hobby for a number of years and was wondering if forgeworld models are still legal for tournaments im especially interested in wraithseers does anyone know or can you point me in the right direction

The only thing to be concerned about is models being discontinued and followingly made illegal in tournaments after a couple of years, something that has happened to a lot of FW units and a few GW units.

I know we're OT now, but there are three reasons GW staff keep repeating when asked about ordering FW in-store:

- They'd then have to offer it to trade sellers due to some countries trading laws
- They're not sure FW could cope with the increased demand
- They don't want kids accidentally ordering 'advanced' FW kits (FW is marked 'Expert Level' when on the main GW store)

TBF it has been some time (read as years) since I ordered in-store and I just remember the guy saying at the time it didn't count as his sale.

The common stipulation of "Hey can i bring FW" really died out in 8th and is pretty much completly dead in 9th, and its pretty much fair game. The reason being is GW took the nerf bat to FW models really hard.

Prior, and especially in 7th they were really good, like really really good, the fire raptor was a notorious monster on the field, so it was common to check to see if it was ok to bring to friendly games.

With 8th, the FW index's nerfed them so much, and the point cost for them was so high, they were never really a power unit to take, and if anything FW units would end up being a disadvantage for reasons already mentioned, and anymore they are jsut super meh so.

I think there's other things too

1) Online buying is very normal now, even for younger age groups (either direct or through parents). It's not like the 90s and early 00s where Forgeworld was hardly marketed outside of special catalogues and, even online, isn't pushed very hard by GW and was online only.

2) The price disparity has reduced significantly. Whilst FW still has some very expensive kits, there are many which are not lot that far to cheaper than GW models. The days where FW was always more are long gone. So whilst its still not cheap, its not vastly miles from what you have in core GW models. So if you can afford core GW models, affording a lot of FW is pretty much within your reach, perhaps with a short bit more saving.

3) Recently the marketing angle has reduced by a massive chunk as GW has very recently put FW models on sale on the main website. Instead of hidden on a separate site (to the extent that some people didn't even know FW was GW) that hardly got any mention (when GW were updating AoS I think the only force that got any marketing was Gloomspite and surprise surprise they appear to be the only ones that sold and escaped being removed from sale when GW gutted the AoS range).

4) As noted the rules have shifted. Whilst GW rules have always been very broken, FW stuff was often seen as superpowered. Now in fairness often this is because its was a super-heavy battle unit. A class that main GW models didn't have an option for and weren't really build around dealing with.
Again this has changed, you can get superheavies from GW. The armies have tools to deal with them and players have experience of them. So again there's been a steady change from something FW exclusive; to something within the core of GW armies.



So yep, steadily over the years its changed. Back in 3rd edition you were very much playing with FW only if your opponent allowed it and likely not at all at many events. Heck back then even special characters from GW were with opponents permission.
Today I suspect many clubs won't expect you to ask and even if you do the answer is likely to be more a yes than a no.

I would think that since GW adjusts FW model's points value would be de facto evidence that they are allowed at 40K events and by implication any 40K game.

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
I would think that since GW adjusts FW model's points value would be de facto evidence that they are allowed at 40K events and by implication any 40K game.

Its just been a recent change of culture, up until 9th, FW was always treated as a "Ask before you bring" type of unit because generally they were VERY powerful units at the time. For example, knights back in 7th you would normally ask to bring FW knights because they were jsut so much better then GW knights even though GW knights have points.
This type of asking culture continued into 8th but it quickly fell to the wayside as FW models took so many nerfs that they were not nearly as OP as they once were.

I am quite aware of the past. I started playing in 2nd ed. The past has no bearing on the discussion regarding someone playing today. I was merely pointing out that there is no basis for FW discrimination at any event that is currently being held.

Im pretty sure none of the FW data sheets have core keyword.. That alone is an issue for a bunch of stuff.

 Argive wrote:
Im pretty sure none of the FW data sheets have core keyword.. That alone is an issue for a bunch of stuff.

Some do have it, it depends from faction to faction.
Custodes Dreads, SM Contemptor Dread, Necrons Acanthrites, ...

 Aenar wrote:

 Argive wrote:
Im pretty sure none of the FW data sheets have core keyword.. That alone is an issue for a bunch of stuff.

Some do have it, it depends from faction to faction.
Custodes Dreads, SM Contemptor Dread, Necrons Acanthrites, ...

I stand corrected