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Made in us
Dakka Veteran





Lebanon NH


Greetings everyone,

I was reading some of the other threads and thinking about how absurd it has gotten that codexes are like $60 a pop in the US. I'm a million years old, and so I can still remember the days of the 3rd edition codexes that were... like $25 I think? I guess I can't remember the exact price, but I do recall that they were cheap enough that I regularly bought new codexes just to read the lore, rules, and get some of the flavor of whatever faction had just come out. Like a lot of you, I also rather enjoyed the artwork, style, and general feeling of the 41st millennium and wanted to get more of it.

Fast forward to today.

I'm actually not sure I'm going to buy any more codexes... ever. I'm actually quite conflicted about this, as I still enjoy the setting, the models, the game experience and all that stuff. I guess I'm not saying I have any intention of not PLAYING 40k... just not of spending $60 for rules I can easily get elsewhere, lore I can easily get elsewhere, and art that is... actually, I still like the art for the most part. I guess my point is that, even though I do tend to enjoy my physical codexes, and sometimes like to do silly things like relax on the couch and just find little bits of lore or description that I didn't notice before, I just don't think that I enjoy them $60 worth.

What about you? How much do you enjoy your physical codexes? Would a lower price point make you buy more of them?

One of the things that also has to be acknowledged here is that the old 3rd edition codexes were tiny compared to today's massive tomes, and every editions codexes have been different in this regard. Is that a factor? What do you think? How much value does a physical codex have to you?

   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

So I recall when codex in the UK were closer to £12 a book. However I also have them on the shelf and I know that they were:

1) Black and White for the majority of the book, with a colour cover and colour painted section in the middle

2) Had only a small/modest amount of lore

3) Were considerably shorter

4) Were softbacks not hardback


Today the codex is £32, but they are also

1) Full colour

2) Considerably longer in both rules and lore

3) Are now hardback.


So as I see it we've gained more than double content, full colour and hardback. To me that honestly makes the difference in price more justifiable. Not fully, I'd still say that £25 would be a more sweet spot for the price of a codex, perhaps £28 or so.

I'd also say that the latest codex are a disappointment because GW has cut the unit profile lore pages, which I miss as I did love that each unit/type would get at least a page of lore and perhaps another of art showing off and elaborating upon what they were and how they worked and such.




I do agree GW is sometimes updating stuff too swiftly. Daughters of Khaine hardly got a new book before getting another and without a big addition of models, which is often justifiable if GW has added a good 4-6 (at least) new kits which might add even more profiles to the game (duel kits and such). So I'm very much with you that faster cycling of the books can devalue them quickly.




At the same time I don't think we'll ever see the codex/battletome vanish. They are not just a useful resource for games and also fantastic for marketing. I bet many of us have fond memories (and even look forward too) getting a new book and, if nothing else was bought at the store, you walk away with a book chock full of lore, art, painting, models and more. That's a big bundle of marketing and temptation to draw people in and keep them in the hobby.

An app might be able to functionally replace that; and a website too. But both of those are "go away and look at this when you get home" Which runs the very real risk that someone new just forgets or doesn't bother. Meanwhile an app on a phone is nothing like a book in the hand to reference or flick through.




Heck I keep casually looking out for a 2nd edition Tyranid Codex just so that I've got the full set.



PS - I think GW's policy of limited edition ones is almost insane considering that they are generally double the price for a slightly different cover and a ribbon bookmark. At the same time at least it means if you don't get them you really don't miss out on anything. So there's that to be thankful of, but I am sometimes surprised how fast those collectors editions sell out considering that, content wise, they really don't offer you good value for money at all.

Print Hunter
Check out the latest 3D print model releases!  
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar






There may have been less lore in prior paperback/b+w codexes, but I'll say the lore was better. Heck the rules and units were better in many cases. Codexes have inflated their page count but not the quality is not there, certainly not for the price.

I am also unsure whether I'll buy another codex. I have a healty sized Tyranid army, and despite the new book being near-universally praised, I think I'm just going to do without the book, and get my rules from different sources.

And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
Made in fi
Shas'ui with Bonding Knife






Physical codexes mean nothing to me. I much prefer having all rulebooks and codexes etc on my iPad, with full bookmarks, search and split screening. Easier to handle and weights less than a single big book.

+++ Thought for the Day: Forget The Narrative — Slaanesh demands more plastic! +++ 
   
Made in us
Mekboy on Kustom Deth Kopta






I buy codexes and honestly probably will keep doing so for the art lore and access to the old rules should the need for comparison or reflection arise. That said I have the income and the space for them. When I was a younger smiley I did not have this luxury but still bought the old codexes on ebay when new ones came out to have the lore and art. Probably more in the nerdy lore part of the hobby always listening to 40k audiobooks while painting or working.

I will say if I were not already invested in the hobby and looked at current prices it would be difficult for me to justify jumping in to it with my income from the late 90's early 00's (US wages have not changed much since then and i was already well above the minimum wage at the time, and today for that matter) .

additional note I do not carry any of my books to the gamestore, I carry a tablet because aint nobody go time for lugging 20 lb of tree pulp or anything beyond the miniature case with an android tablet tucked in

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/05/20 14:40:04


10000 points 7000
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Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





Full color printing, hardback bindings, and large formats are not a "value add" for a book whose contents will be outdated within months, and replaced within a few years. We are being sold magazines dressed up as coffee table books.

Physical media could still be a useful way to deliver rules and updates, but hardback books are the most wasteful and expensive way to do it.
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





I like physical dexes a lot- I refuse to by an e-reader because it is a machine that is designed to do just one thing, which can also be done by a computer that has the benefit of being able to do 1001 other things BESIDES functioning as an e-reader.

I have found that when GW digital products did exist, they were terrible (at least on computers); the design that you MUST see the whole page on the screen made the text too small to read.

Current dexes? I love some things about them, but dislike other things; they don't have maps anymore to show you the distribution of the faction's forces across the galaxy, and the quantity of unit specific lore has dropped as well. At the same time, they've added Crusade content, and they have fleshed out the rules for subfactions in even more detail than 8th.

I don't use the app, or any phone/ tablet based method of list building, but I do think that the system of giving us a code for a living digital edition when we buy the dex is an interesting idea with a lot of potential... But from what I've heard, the execution is so bad that all of that potential is essentially wasted.

One thing I do know is that I never want GW to go 100% digital only. I personally believe that any company which chooses to do so is creating potential barriers for a segment of the population- be they barriers of money, accessibility, or technical ability.

I work with a lot of folks who live in rural areas where internet service is spotty at best, people who have a profound lack of digital literacy and people who cope with poverty and physical disabilities, so my perspective tends to differ from that of young urban individuals who live on their phones.

Granted, many of the clients I work with would not be interested in 40k at all, but my connection to these folks keeps me ever mindful of the need for universally designed products and services.

GW absolutely SHOULD make a full suite of living, digital texts available for those who want and need them. GW should ALSO continue to produce paper based resources for those who prefer them, despite their many flaws. GW should also make it so that neither product line relies on the others. That's what universal design is all about.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut



London

I used to love them. Inspirational modelling and conversion ideas to fill roles without models, rules, background.

Now conversions are frowned on as being dangerous threats to 'no model no rules', I know enough of the background and it seems to change often making me less inclined to want to learn it, painting ideas are all over the web and the rules seem to be poorly tested, changed every few months or invalidated.

A service like Wahpedia is currently enough for me, combined with seeing what others are doing with their armies.
   
Made in gb
Jovial Plaguebearer of Nurgle




The_Real_Chris wrote:
I used to love them. Inspirational modelling and conversion ideas to fill roles without models, rules, background.

Now conversions are frowned on as being dangerous threats to 'no model no rules', I know enough of the background and it seems to change often making me less inclined to want to learn it, painting ideas are all over the web and the rules seem to be poorly tested, changed every few months or invalidated.

A service like Wahpedia is currently enough for me, combined with seeing what others are doing with their armies.


Im a physical book boy but it is mad that Games Workshop must surely have seen the simple but effective and easy to navigate wahapedia site and gone ahead with app system they have. I am positive that if they had such a good service people would be more than willing to pay for it.
   
Made in gb
Mighty Vampire Count






UK

I prefer a physical book for a number of reasons:

1. Its easier to find and discuss rules - messing about with the rules on a tiny screen that one can really see is a nightmare - especially if you are trying to clarify something.

2. I like books

That being said I am not playing much at the moment and although I have the money - room is more of an issue.

I AM A MARINE PLAYER

"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos

"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001

www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/528517.page

A Bloody Road - my Warhammer Fantasy Fiction 
   
Made in us
Grovelin' Grot




Warhammer for me is an analog escape from the digital world. Enough of my time is spent staring at screens for work and whatnot that I just need something else.

This obviously isn't the case for everyone. There should 100% be electronic versions, but they shouldn't be the only version.
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




 Mr Morden wrote:
I prefer a physical book for a number of reasons:

1. Its easier to find and discuss rules

This is 100% false with the ability to search out words.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
PenitentJake wrote:

One thing I do know is that I never want GW to go 100% digital only. I personally believe that any company which chooses to do so is creating potential barriers for a segment of the population- be they barriers of money, accessibility, or technical ability.

I work with a lot of folks who live in rural areas where internet service is spotty at best, people who have a profound lack of digital literacy and people who cope with poverty and physical disabilities, so my perspective tends to differ from that of young urban individuals who live on their phones.

Granted, many of the clients I work with would not be interested in 40k at all, but my connection to these folks keeps me ever mindful of the need for universally designed products and services.

So some old ass boomers that won't play 40k to begin with are your argument compared to the actual demographic where most people have smart phones of some kind to begin with?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/05/20 15:31:11


 
   
Made in pl
Fixture of Dakka




Can't play at the store without a printed version of army rules. So the codex is a crucial as having an army.


So some old ass boomers that won't play 40k to begin with are your argument compared to the actual demographic where most people have smart phones of some kind to begin with?

When I bought my army, I made a councious choice to pick instead of buying someting else. my sister with her confirmation money bought a tablet. If rules were only digital, I wouldn't be able to play, because I have no internet on my phone and it ain't a smart phone either.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/05/20 15:42:02


If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain. 
   
Made in ca
Ancient Venerable Dreadnought






Depends, if its an army i play in passing, not much, if its something im super into, priceless

For example. Knights, tsons, gotta have it gotta need it.
Slaves, tzeetzch, guard, i can do with out it.

To many unpainted models to count. 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





EviscerationPlague wrote:
 Mr Morden wrote:
I prefer a physical book for a number of reasons:

1. Its easier to find and discuss rules

This is 100% false with the ability to search out words.



Even better, you have Certain Sources where rules are actually tagged with unit/faction/formation keywords, and as a result you can do things like having a list of usable stratagems appended to the bottom of a unit's entry. If I look up Neophyte Hybrids, I'm presented with a summary of all available stratagems that can be used with them. And they can be further filtered by subfaction.

The current physical dexes make it easy to forget that some stratagems exist, or misremember their rules (which are likely to be incorrect/outdated in your physical book anyway). Never mind the nightmare of having to mentally index the contents of 1-3 additional publications just to play a single monofaction army.
   
Made in us
Quick-fingered Warlord Moderatus






Karol wrote:

When I bought my army, I made a councious choice to pick instead of buying someting else. my sister with her confirmation money bought a tablet. If rules were only digital, I wouldn't be able to play, because I have no internet on my phone and it ain't a smart phone either.


you can print out your rules from digital.

Personally i'd go for :

Digital rules
Physical special editions with rules + fluff


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hankovitch wrote:


Even better, you have Certain Sources where rules are actually tagged with unit/faction/formation keywords, and as a result you can do things like having a list of usable stratagems appended to the bottom of a unit's entry. If I look up Neophyte Hybrids, I'm presented with a summary of all available stratagems that can be used with them. And they can be further filtered by subfaction.

The current physical dexes make it easy to forget that some stratagems exist, or misremember their rules (which are likely to be incorrect/outdated in your physical book anyway). Never mind the nightmare of having to mentally index the contents of 1-3 additional publications just to play a single monofaction army.



Yeah, going back to physical codexes after using Wahapedia is so annoying. The layout in the codexes is so trash.

Take the Thousand Sons codex for example :

40 pages of fluff thats been copypasted
Combat Patrol ad
Secondaries
Detachment abilities
Cults
Strats (with a try at making it organized with color coded gak)
Warlord Traits
Infernal pacts
Relics
Psychic
CRUSADE
name generator (kek)
CRUSADE ARMY AD
Datasheet abilities
Cabalistic rituals
Datasheets
Points Values
Weapons profile


It's so all over the place.

Why are pacts between WLT and Relics
Why is crusade in the middle of matched play stuff
Why are cabalistic rituals and datasheet abilities not on the detachment abilities section
why are pts values and weapons profile their own section in the end

It *could* be simple but GW doesnt seem to want to. Wahapedia having the strats related to the units right under their datasheet AND having all weapons options' full stat right on the datasheet is sooo much better

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/05/20 15:55:38


 
   
Made in gb
Excited Doom Diver





Personally? I like the feel of a physical book, and I enjoy reading the background bits, looking at the galleries etc. What I don't enjoy so much is having to lug round multiple hardback books to use them in-game.

If I could dictate how GW distributed rules, I would have four primary ways:

- Free downloadable PDFs. These would be bare-bones files, with minimal formatting, no images etc, but containing all of the information necessary from a game perspective. This is focused on people wanting the crunch for playtesting or listwriting.

- An app with a reasonable navigation interface (links to key terms / associated rule areas etc) and regularly updated to ensure it's fully up to date. Think the current app, but a bit more user-friendly. This could have a small subscription fee attached - think around £1.99 / $2.99 per month, which gives access to everything. This is intended as a quick and easy reference for people to use if they want to browse concepts, to be used mid-game to look up opponent's rules, etc.

- Easy-to-transport physical rulebooks. These would be A5 sized and include all the info you need to play, as well as a little bit of background. These would be available for the rulebooks and for each Codex, with the codices also including data cards. This is intended to be the primary gaming aid, with portability and lack of technical requirements being the primary concern. Ideally this would aim for the £5-10 / $12-15 range, and could be black and white if necessary to reduce costs.

- Full-size hardback rulebooks and codices, just like the current versions, and at the current price point. The design goal here is that they are primarily for reading at home, and these are the ones which have full colour, fluff, hobby sections etc. They could well come packaged with the slimline version for convenience - that would need some market research to figure out the best approach.

Both of the physical versions would be labeled with an explicit print date and a note pointing you to the online versions for up to date rules. The slimline versions would also ideally be reprinted annually with up to date rules for people who want them for tournaments etc.

I'd also strongly support slimming down the amount of rules in codices and simplifying how it's presented, but that feels to me like it's beyond the scope of this thread...

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/05/20 16:02:08


 
   
Made in pl
Fixture of Dakka




 VladimirHerzog wrote:

you can print out your rules from digital.

Personally i'd go for :

Digital rules
Physical special editions with rules + fluff

True. And as soon as I get myself a flat to play w40k and AoS in, I could ditch the use of printed material as a whole.

If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain. 
   
Made in gb
Mighty Vampire Count






UK

EviscerationPlague wrote:
 Mr Morden wrote:
I prefer a physical book for a number of reasons:

1. Its easier to find and discuss rules

This is 100% false with the ability to search out words.



This is a100% true in my experience - ages spent squinting at a screen as someone tries to find their specific rule and fails. and when the rule is found - easier for everyone to look at a large printed page rather than all try to read a tiny screen - esp when they keep flipping the phone around. Its extremely annoying.

I AM A MARINE PLAYER

"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos

"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001

www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/528517.page

A Bloody Road - my Warhammer Fantasy Fiction 
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





The_Real_Chris wrote:


Now conversions are frowned on as being dangerous threats to 'no model no rules', I know enough of the background and it seems to change often making me less inclined to want to learn it, painting ideas are all over the web and the rules seem to be poorly tested, changed every few months or invalidated.



While conversions are no longer featured in Codices, and while WD articles seldom give you a step by step guide on how to make the conversions, it is not true that GW officially frowns on conversions. I have issue 476 of WD sitting in front of me right now; it includes conversions for a Dark Mechinicum priest kitbashed from the Venomcrawler and Manipulus kits, a Baneblade fitted with an exorcist launcher, a unit of corrupted SoB, a Feudal Guard unit kit bashed from Cawdor/ Cadian/ Krieg models, a unit of Guard Beastmen Conscripts, and a Holy Knight with a church on its back (from the Sigmarite mausoleum).

The GK Grand Master in NDK was the last conversion that we got a walkthrough to create- this is in fact a unit entry without a model, and GW not only encouraged people to build their own but actually showed them how.

EviscerationPlague wrote:

So some old ass boomers that won't play 40k to begin with are your argument compared to the actual demographic where most people have smart phones of some kind to begin with?


Well, my standard, diplomatic response would be to explain to you what universal design is and how most modern businesses either embrace completely or at least aspire to, I'm not going to do that. Brother Karol's response certainly puts your argument on its head anyway, as he explained HIS accessibility issues, and if you know Karol, you can't get much further from a boomer.

For my part, your use of "old ass boomers" takes away my desire to behave in a diplomatic manner.

[Snip]

I couldn't do it. I had originally written an ill tempered rant, but within a minute, hit the edit button because I decided to be the bigger man. Stooping to personal insults, even in response to them certainly isn't going to move the discussion forward, and there are other people on this site whose opinions I care enough about that I don't want them to see the worst in me.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/05/20 16:21:50


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




NE Ohio, USA

How valuable is a physical codex to me?

1) I can afford whatever I like hobby wise. That doesn't mean I don't find the current price tag of codexes ridiculous.
So retail minus the considerable discount I get from my local shop.
And I only buy a codex/battle tome for forces that I'm actually playing atm.

2) The current method of changing pts/rules once a codex drops has greatly eroded the physical books value within the current edition.

3) the real value won't be realized until the edition ends & the apps/waghpedia etc no longer support a previous edition.
Stuff is certainly out there in digital form, but it's still faster just to walk to my bookshelf when we want to play edition x....
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




 Mr Morden wrote:
EviscerationPlague wrote:
 Mr Morden wrote:
I prefer a physical book for a number of reasons:

1. Its easier to find and discuss rules

This is 100% false with the ability to search out words.



This is a100% true in my experience - ages spent squinting at a screen as someone tries to find their specific rule and fails. and when the rule is found - easier for everyone to look at a large printed page rather than all try to read a tiny screen - esp when they keep flipping the phone around. Its extremely annoying.

You're still describing not searching out words. That alone makes it 100% quicker.
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

I think we should note that searching in books is pretty quick, BUT its hindered by GW often being spotty with if they do or don't include an index at the back and the way they lay out information right now. For a good few years they had avery sensible way to lay out unit information.

Today its better than it has been recently, but its still very messy. Heck they don't even put points on the unit profile (they do put power levels though); the points are on a separate page.

The same is true of several other bits of regularly needed information. Yes collected references and tables ARE good, but sometimes its good to repeat information in the same publication so that you've both got your summary table and your key information right where the reader needs it.

Print Hunter
Check out the latest 3D print model releases!  
   
Made in gb
Mighty Vampire Count






UK

EviscerationPlague wrote:
 Mr Morden wrote:
EviscerationPlague wrote:
 Mr Morden wrote:
I prefer a physical book for a number of reasons:

1. Its easier to find and discuss rules

This is 100% false with the ability to search out words.



This is a100% true in my experience - ages spent squinting at a screen as someone tries to find their specific rule and fails. and when the rule is found - easier for everyone to look at a large printed page rather than all try to read a tiny screen - esp when they keep flipping the phone around. Its extremely annoying.

You're still describing not searching out words. That alone makes it 100% quicker.

And you are ignoring the discusson / consulation aspect of the rules which is the whole pouint of finding the rule - its lots easier (IMO) checking a page with several people than someones phone

Now Agreed GW does not make it easy to find the relevant rules in any manner.

I AM A MARINE PLAYER

"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos

"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001

www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/528517.page

A Bloody Road - my Warhammer Fantasy Fiction 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




 Mr Morden wrote:
EviscerationPlague wrote:
 Mr Morden wrote:
EviscerationPlague wrote:
 Mr Morden wrote:
I prefer a physical book for a number of reasons:

1. Its easier to find and discuss rules

This is 100% false with the ability to search out words.



This is a100% true in my experience - ages spent squinting at a screen as someone tries to find their specific rule and fails. and when the rule is found - easier for everyone to look at a large printed page rather than all try to read a tiny screen - esp when they keep flipping the phone around. Its extremely annoying.

You're still describing not searching out words. That alone makes it 100% quicker.

And you are ignoring the discusson / consulation aspect of the rules which is the whole pouint of finding the rule - its lots easier (IMO) checking a page with several people than someones phone

Now Agreed GW does not make it easy to find the relevant rules in any manner.

Maybe if y'all are reading at a 3rd grade level. Reading the searched reference does NOT take long, sorry.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
PenitentJake wrote:
The_Real_Chris wrote:


Now conversions are frowned on as being dangerous threats to 'no model no rules', I know enough of the background and it seems to change often making me less inclined to want to learn it, painting ideas are all over the web and the rules seem to be poorly tested, changed every few months or invalidated.



While conversions are no longer featured in Codices, and while WD articles seldom give you a step by step guide on how to make the conversions, it is not true that GW officially frowns on conversions. I have issue 476 of WD sitting in front of me right now; it includes conversions for a Dark Mechinicum priest kitbashed from the Venomcrawler and Manipulus kits, a Baneblade fitted with an exorcist launcher, a unit of corrupted SoB, a Feudal Guard unit kit bashed from Cawdor/ Cadian/ Krieg models, a unit of Guard Beastmen Conscripts, and a Holy Knight with a church on its back (from the Sigmarite mausoleum).

The GK Grand Master in NDK was the last conversion that we got a walkthrough to create- this is in fact a unit entry without a model, and GW not only encouraged people to build their own but actually showed them how.

EviscerationPlague wrote:

So some old ass boomers that won't play 40k to begin with are your argument compared to the actual demographic where most people have smart phones of some kind to begin with?


Well, my standard, diplomatic response would be to explain to you what universal design is and how most modern businesses either embrace completely or at least aspire to, I'm not going to do that. Brother Karol's response certainly puts your argument on its head anyway, as he explained HIS accessibility issues, and if you know Karol, you can't get much further from a boomer.

For my part, your use of "old ass boomers" takes away my desire to behave in a diplomatic manner.

[Snip]

I couldn't do it. I had originally written an ill tempered rant, but within a minute, hit the edit button because I decided to be the bigger man. Stooping to personal insults, even in response to them certainly isn't going to move the discussion forward, and there are other people on this site whose opinions I care enough about that I don't want them to see the worst in me.

Karol has no point because Karol was sold on a bad army to begin with. As well a smart phone/tablet would've been a better purchase to begin with for research or job applications. It relies on having zero smart technology and zero internet at both home and in the store. I've done volunteer work with the homeless and even they were able to procure smart phones so that they could apply for low income housing and jobs.

So no there's just not an excuse. You wanna print everything? Fine, whatever. Codices printed by GW have zero value though and should not be a focus.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/05/20 16:57:59


 
   
Made in gb
Mighty Vampire Count






UK

EviscerationPlague wrote:
 Mr Morden wrote:
EviscerationPlague wrote:
 Mr Morden wrote:
EviscerationPlague wrote:
 Mr Morden wrote:
I prefer a physical book for a number of reasons:

1. Its easier to find and discuss rules

This is 100% false with the ability to search out words.



This is a100% true in my experience - ages spent squinting at a screen as someone tries to find their specific rule and fails. and when the rule is found - easier for everyone to look at a large printed page rather than all try to read a tiny screen - esp when they keep flipping the phone around. Its extremely annoying.

You're still describing not searching out words. That alone makes it 100% quicker.

And you are ignoring the discusson / consulation aspect of the rules which is the whole pouint of finding the rule - its lots easier (IMO) checking a page with several people than someones phone

Now Agreed GW does not make it easy to find the relevant rules in any manner.

Maybe if y'all are reading at a 3rd grade level. Reading the searched reference does NOT take long, sorry.

Phone Screens are way smaller than pages - FACT. And often scratched and battered

Apparently you need to learn to read yourself so given that you have ignored the whole point of what I said but whatever.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/05/20 17:19:24


I AM A MARINE PLAYER

"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos

"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001

www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/528517.page

A Bloody Road - my Warhammer Fantasy Fiction 
   
Made in de
Contagious Dreadnought of Nurgle




If the German Version was available as a digital copy I'd probably not buy a physical Codex anymore since the fluff pages mostly are the same since at least 4th edition. Unfortunately german Codizes don't seem to have demand in russia .
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




 Mr Morden wrote:
EviscerationPlague wrote:
 Mr Morden wrote:
EviscerationPlague wrote:
 Mr Morden wrote:
EviscerationPlague wrote:
 Mr Morden wrote:
I prefer a physical book for a number of reasons:

1. Its easier to find and discuss rules

This is 100% false with the ability to search out words.



This is a100% true in my experience - ages spent squinting at a screen as someone tries to find their specific rule and fails. and when the rule is found - easier for everyone to look at a large printed page rather than all try to read a tiny screen - esp when they keep flipping the phone around. Its extremely annoying.

You're still describing not searching out words. That alone makes it 100% quicker.

And you are ignoring the discusson / consulation aspect of the rules which is the whole pouint of finding the rule - its lots easier (IMO) checking a page with several people than someones phone

Now Agreed GW does not make it easy to find the relevant rules in any manner.

Maybe if y'all are reading at a 3rd grade level. Reading the searched reference does NOT take long, sorry.

Phone Screens are way smaller than pages - FACT. And often scratched and battered

Apparently you need to learn to read yourself so given that you have ignored the whole point of what I said but whatever.


If all y'all have scratched and cracked screens I fear for the condition of your codices to begin with.
   
Made in us
Terminator with Assault Cannon




San Jose, CA

Well I generally carry my phone with me when I go anywhere, can't say the same for a codex....

But my screen isn't fethed up.

I'll echo the whole 40k is an escape from the digital mindset.

Generally I don't buy the codex since it'll be invalid anywhere between day one and 3mo.
I'll gladly pay GW for what their rules are worth, unfortunately lately their rules are worth 0, so that's what I do.
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Master with Gauntlets of Macragge





Upstate, New York

EviscerationPlague wrote:

If all y'all have scratched and cracked screens I fear for the condition of your codices to begin with.


Hush and make some armor saves at AP minus <coffee stain>

For a book I’m less familiar with, search features are nice via digital codexs. But for a book I know well, I can flip to the right spot and get the relevent details quicker then navigating an app.

   
 
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