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This idea was presented recently, and I love it.

I mean, without seeing specifics, it's hard to comment on it. I'm not necessarily opposed to it, but there's nothing inherently positive about it other than presumably having fewer books to buy. I wouldn't want GK and DW to be expected to field units alongside each other very often. I'd want all such units to have the option to fight alongside each other.

Wyldhunt wrote:
I mean, without seeing specifics, it's hard to comment on it. I'm not necessarily opposed to it, but there's nothing inherently positive about it other than presumably having fewer books to buy. I wouldn't want GK and DW to be expected to field units alongside each other very often. I'd want all such units to have the option to fight alongside each other.

Each detachment could be one specialty.

Wyldhunt wrote:
I mean, without seeing specifics, it's hard to comment on it. I'm not necessarily opposed to it, but there's nothing inherently positive about it other than presumably having fewer books to buy. I wouldn't want GK and DW to be expected to field units alongside each other very often. I'd want all such units to have the option to fight alongside each other.

They can easily be like Harlequins and Craftworlds which are from the same book: full standalone armies that can be allies. I'd even consolidate Custodes into that one big book of Agent of the Imperium. Adepta Sororitas are big (and flavourful) enough to remain separate instead.

25 codexes evey edition is insane, but even 15-20 would still be insane I think.

 Blackie wrote:

Wyldhunt wrote:
I mean, without seeing specifics, it's hard to comment on it. I'm not necessarily opposed to it, but there's nothing inherently positive about it other than presumably having fewer books to buy. I wouldn't want GK and DW to be expected to field units alongside each other very often. I'd want all such units to have the option to fight alongside each other.

They can easily be like Harlequins and Craftworlds which are from the same book: full standalone armies that can be allies. I'd even consolidate Custodes into that one big book of Agent of the Imperium. Adepta Sororitas are big (and flavourful) enough to remain separate instead.

25 codexes evey edition is insane, but even 15-20 would still be insane I think.

Sure. My point is that the physical book you put the rules in doesn't really say much about those rules. So barring actual rule suggestions, this isn't really a proposed rules thing so much as a marketing/packaging thing. The Death Watch rules aren't necessarily better or worse for being located in the same book as GK. You could probably do some inquisition-related rules more easily by lumping them all together, but we can't really comment on hypothetical rules.

Wyldhunt wrote:

 Blackie wrote:

Wyldhunt wrote:
I mean, without seeing specifics, it's hard to comment on it. I'm not necessarily opposed to it, but there's nothing inherently positive about it other than presumably having fewer books to buy. I wouldn't want GK and DW to be expected to field units alongside each other very often. I'd want all such units to have the option to fight alongside each other.

They can easily be like Harlequins and Craftworlds which are from the same book: full standalone armies that can be allies. I'd even consolidate Custodes into that one big book of Agent of the Imperium. Adepta Sororitas are big (and flavourful) enough to remain separate instead.

25 codexes evey edition is insane, but even 15-20 would still be insane I think.

Sure. My point is that the physical book you put the rules in doesn't really say much about those rules. So barring actual rule suggestions, this isn't really a proposed rules thing so much as a marketing/packaging thing. The Death Watch rules aren't necessarily better or worse for being located in the same book as GK. You could probably do some inquisition-related rules more easily by lumping them all together, but we can't really comment on hypothetical rules.

They could take a more Inquisitorial theme. Fewer models, more agent-like.
The reason I like it so much is because I'm a huge fan of making cool combinations.

I think consolidating them as well as Custodes into a single broad 'Agents of the Imperium' book which provides both rules for specific armies and for allying these forces with others; they are uniquely flexible in that manner as compared to other Imperium armies.

IMO it would also better establish them as specialist forces which don't have as broad an army support as some others--and accordingly cut back on how many dam rules they have. It's like they are trying to pad page count by adding rules!

 Just_Breathe wrote:

They could take a more Inquisitorial theme. Fewer models, more agent-like.
The reason I like it so much is because I'm a huge fan of making cool combinations.

As much as I love small groups of elite dudes, I think there's probably an upper limit to how effective that can be in 40k. Especially when we're talking about inquisitorial henchmen who might have few to no augmentations. You don't, for instance, want your group of two dozen assorted henchmen and Death Watch marines taking on a 2,000 point ork army, right? Either the sheer number of shots they'd have to tank would overwhelm the imperials, or else you make the imperials as durable as custodes. The former isn't fun for you because you're just dying/loosing. The latter isn't fun for the ork player because it makes his supposedly badass orks look incompetent. The custodes player watching from the side probably isn't happy that a death cult assassin with gumption is a match for his custodes either.

So if we really want to lean into that squad-sized battle with a team of elites (who still respect the badassery of other factions), we might be better off playing a different game. Maybe Kill Team or Black Stone Fortress or something.

I was a HUGE fan of this idea in 8th edition and even used the loose detachment rules to make an army like this that I really loved. I think 9th has added some much rules bloat to each army though that it wouldn't really work to combine them into a codex anymore. Particularly with DW having full SM unit access and the huge additions to the Sisters line, I don't think the Inquisition as a unified army really can work anymore without cutting a lot of the progress that's been made to make them viable armies..

I'll be honest, I love this idea but it has as much chance, for the exact same reason, as GW suddenly deciding to lump ALL Astartes units into the same book. GW knows what sells. And that's dead trees baby. Can't sell dead trees to kids if you don't have enough words on them.

Creating unified books = less books
More factions = more books
More books = more cheetos flavored cows.

GW will, possibly, drop them all to legends and give them out for "free" in a white dwarf issue. There is no reason for Inquisitors to exist now. Assassins are generally a WORSE option then the factions' own dedicated sniper/melee killy unit. Think about it, what Imperial faction doesn't have a better option than most assassins? The only one who is slightly worth it is the anti-psyker assassin, and it's only worth it if you don't take any other psker defense.

Add to this Custodes though. They don't deserve their own faction anymore. They are overpriced Primaris Marines.

I don't think GK and DW need to be foldered into Inquisition.

Though on the other hand I do think the Inquisition should have Chapter Militant rules for them. Including Adepta Sororitas and Militarum Tempestus as well. Giving them additional keywords for CP cost and without breaking faction abilities.

In terms of more general Agents of the Imperium it'd be cool if:
- Cult Imperialis units could be taken in other Imperium armies, representing Frateris Militia and local Ministorum elements supporting other Imperial forces.
- Tech-Priest Enginseers could be taken in other Imperium armies, they're often the ones maintaining all the Imperiums vehicles. Sisters and Custodes also have no means of buffing and repairing their vehicles, while the Guard one is in need of an update.
- Astra Telepathica could also see more frequency in other armies. All factions in the lore use Astropaths.

Wyldhunt wrote:
I mean, without seeing specifics, it's hard to comment on it. I'm not necessarily opposed to it, but there's nothing inherently positive about it other than presumably having fewer books to buy. I wouldn't want GK and DW to be expected to field units alongside each other very often. I'd want all such units to have the option to fight alongside each other.

Well, I mean didn't they do this in 3rd Edition? That seemed to work well. Interesting Idea.

 Bismarck'sTailor wrote:

Wyldhunt wrote:
I mean, without seeing specifics, it's hard to comment on it. I'm not necessarily opposed to it, but there's nothing inherently positive about it other than presumably having fewer books to buy. I wouldn't want GK and DW to be expected to field units alongside each other very often. I'd want all such units to have the option to fight alongside each other.

Well, I mean didn't they do this in 3rd Edition? That seemed to work well. Interesting Idea.

Without getting off my lazy butt to go read my copy of that book, I think it was basically just Malleus/Hereticus lumped into a single book. But like, it seems like alliances between the various ordos would be rare enough that they don't necessarily need some special rule to help them team up better. As far as I'm aware, it's not very common to recruit both Grey Knights and Death Watch for the same theatre of battle, and there don't seem to be special tactics they use when coordinating. If you lose your doctrines for having Imperial Fists team up with Guardsmen, you should probably lose your mono-faction bonuses when you've got kill teams firing special ammo between silvery fireballs.

 Bismarck'sTailor wrote:


Well, I mean didn't they do this in 3rd Edition? That seemed to work well. Interesting Idea.

They did, and it was awesome. I had a core Guard army with 3 x identical point inquisitor + faction xenos/hereticus/malleus 'detachments' that I could easily swap out.

What would be amazing going back to OPs suggestion is an "Agents of the Imperium" book that was specifically the.. agents. Leave the sisters, DW and Grey Knights in their own books.

HQ
Inquisitors, Rogue Traders, Techpriests

Elite
Stormtroopers, "Specialists" (interrogators, cartographers, baby-techpriests), Assassins

Troops
Militia, servitors

Give them some spicey strats and some funky special rules like "Quarry" and allow them to be allied as a detachment to any Imperium force (or maybe even xenos (ork/eldar/tau) with some debuffs/wargear options)

You can then flip it and release an "Agents of Chaos" book that has the same thing with heretical versions of the above and lots of renegades.

I think at this stage you would be better off (given the others are already published) to have an inquisition codex, that had rules for either stand alone Inquisition forces - elite Scions, choice transports, etc. but not really designed to be fielded in more than a 1000 points. Ones leading armies of the Imperium - so a custom marine chapter or Guard regiment. Or one leading their chambers militant (Ordo Xenos/Deathwatch, Ordo Malleus/Grey Knights, Ordo Hereticus/Adepta Sororitas).

I played the Demonhunters codex back in 3rd and it was fantastic. I took a mostly inquisitor based army with only 2 Grey Knights unit ( a trooper unit and a Dreadnaut). It worked great and most of my oponents had no idea how to fight me.

So if i had make a call on this idea on what a Inquisitor list might look like, i would look at the 3rd edition Inquisitor books for inspiration (all existing models, nothing new)-

HQ
Inquisitor Lord
Inquisitor
Named Inquisitors
Adaptus Arbite Chief Justice (Hero)

Elite
Jerrico
Demonhost
Assassins
Crusaders
Death Cult Assassins
Priests

Troops
Tempest Scions (Inquisitor Stormtrooper Regiment, similar to the Brood Brothers Rule)
Adaptus Arbites
Inquisitor Henchmen (i would make one change allow a Heavy Weapon if you take a unit of 6)

Fast attack
Acho-flagellants
Adaptus Arbite Cyber Mastiffs

Heavy Support
Land Raider
Adaptus Mechanicus Survitor Team (one ad mec, 2 heavy weapons, 2 power gloves)

Flyer
Valkaries (Black choppers are a must in black opts missions)

Troop Transports
Rhino
Chimera
Taurus

May add one free Ordo Militant (Depending on the Ordo leading the army) Detachment as long as the detachment is not more then 25% of the total value of the army


I would go a different rout for the Rogue Trader

HQ
Rogue Trader
Named Rogue Traders
Navigator

Elite
Assassins
Rogue Trader's Companions
Zoat (Xenos Mercenary)
Ambull (Xenos Mercenary)
Borewyrms (Xenos Mercenary)
Officer From the Fleet
Astropath

Troops
Voidmen at arms
Navy Breachers

Fast Attack
???

Heavy Support
Adaptus Mechanicus Survitor Team (one ad mec, 2 heavy weapons, 2 power gloves)

Flyers
Valkeries (Landing Craft)

Troop Transports
Rhino
Chimera

May add one free Kroot Mercenary Detachment as long as the detachment is not more then 25% of the total value of the army. This detachment can only include units that have the Kroot Keyword.