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Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut




So rumors is 10th ed is going to be a hard reset with a return of indexes. If this is true what changes would you like to see in it.

For me personally like to get rid of strats as they currently are and replace them with some form of the reaction rules from HH and AOS. I'd also like them to limit the amount of them that can be used in a battle. They can print as many as they like but a play could only bring something like 4 or 5 to a battle. The would get rid of a lot of the gotcha moments and speed up the game because a player wont stop the game to leaf through their codex to find an obscure strat that might help them now.

The other thing I'd see a return of USRs. Keep them to a small list of 10 or, max, 15 and print them in the back of any and all Codexes.

Finally I respectfully ask those that don't want a new edition or don't want a hard reset to refrain from posting in this post. There is a post in the News & Rumors section better fitted for that and I'd rather not see those that want to discuss possible rules changes to be drowned out by other off topic posts.
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

Fix the Line of Sight rules.

Change the morale system so that it's a suppression system that limits what you can do with units (how they interact with objectives and other characters/buffs/abilities), rather than the current "lose more" system that punishes you for losing troops by making you lose more troops, and in a way that completely bypasses the entire structure of strength/save mod/damage vs toughness/saving throw/wounds.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/08/02 13:45:00


Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in us
Servoarm Flailing Magos






remove strats
bring back USRs
make the game alternating activations
lower lethality

thats my big 4
   
Made in ie
Battleship Captain





Hard to believe honestly but I'd welcome it if it means GW have sorted out their lack of design philosophy on the game

But sure, here's my wishlist:
- no strats
- no subfactions
- no doctrines
- no super doctrines
- USRs
- HQ units lets you change the classification of specific units (so a Trygon Prime makes Ravaners troops for example)
- more interesting rules that reroll auras and +/-1 modifiers on everything
- more out of turn movement actions like falling back, counter-charges, going to ground etc
- just more emphasis in manuvering in general


I'd be okay with keeping secondaries if all of the above happened honestly. My big issue with 40k 9th Ed s the book keeping and mental load honestly.


 
   
Made in cz
Longtime Dakkanaut




I'd like 10th to be more like the new Heresy edition...not exactly like it, but a lot more like it. Bring back initiative, WS comparison, remove all the stratagems and do something like the new Heresy reactions for example.

And they need to tone down the lethality of the game, it's completely gotten out of hand.
   
Made in us
Neophyte undergoing Ritual of Detestation





Degrading profiles should be replaced with a lesser one that is more consistent.
Higher granularity would be nice.

AND PLEASE release all the codices at the same f-ing time, with no significant rule changes and only point adjustments as the edition moves forward.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/08/02 14:37:32


 
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





I will refrain from posting the thing OP didn't want me to post, so let me say this instead:

I hope that game size mechanics and Crusade continue to be a part of 40k going forward. I further hope that the new rules allow existing Crusade content to continue to be used.

I see the first of these things as being possible and even likely. I see the second as a real longshot. If they keep Crusade at all, they will reduce it to the AoS equivalent (Path to Glory or whatever).

A lot of folks like Path to Glory better than Crusade, because it's more streamlined and simple. I haven't studied it closely, as I don't play AoS (and can't afford to in addition to 40k), but from what I've seen, it isn't well developed as Crusade, and doesn't allow for the same kind of detail with long term faction specific goals. Which is to say that it wouldn't be enough to convince me to buy into 10th, but at least I would feel like GW was still trying to support a narrative spirit of linked games, and army growth via narrative progression.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/08/02 14:21:24


 
   
Made in us
Paramount Plague Censer Bearer





Horus Heresy WS chart.
Old editions Wounding chart.
Remove Stratagems.
Add reactions, but not necessarily like how the Horus Heresy does it. More along the lines of smaller benefits, with drawbacks. But keep reaction counter play.

‘What Lorgar’s fanatics have not seen is that these gods are nothing compared to the power and the majesty of the Machine-God. Already, members of our growing cult are using the grace of the Omnissiah – the true Omnissiah, not Terra’s false prophet – to harness the might of the warp. Geller fields, warp missiles, void shields, all these things you are familiar with. But their underlying principles can be turned to so much more. Through novel exploitations of these technologies we will gain mastery first over the energies of the empyrean, then over the lesser entities, until finally the very gods themselves will bend the knee and recognise the supremacy of the Machine-God"
- Heretek Ardim Protos in Titandeath by Guy Haley 
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

PenitentJake wrote:
I hope that game size mechanics...
I hope that concepts like game size mechanics are actually used more often. For instance, I don't think we need to remove stratagems from the game, only reduce the amount per Codex by about 60% (including all equipment strats, which should just be wargear, and any that just apply to a single unit type, those can be special rules baked into the unit).

For the remainder, you should have to choose a selection from your pool over overall strats, and how many you get should be tied to game size. The bigger the game, the more strats you can select.

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in ie
Battleship Captain





 H.B.M.C. wrote:
PenitentJake wrote:
I hope that game size mechanics...
I hope that concepts like game size mechanics are actually used more often. For instance, I don't think we need to remove stratagems from the game, only reduce the amount per Codex by about 60% (including all equipment strats, which should just be wargear, and any that just apply to a single unit type, those can be special rules baked into the unit).

For the remainder, you should have to choose a selection from your pool over overall strats, and how many you get should be tied to game size. The bigger the game, the more strats you can select.


I still think CP would be better used as a universal order system that lets you preform out of turn actions like I mentioned earlier with triggers based on the opponents actions and keywords as a limiter. For example a melee unit get the [Counter Charge] keyword and when an enemy unit ends a charge within 9" they can spend CP to declare a charge and fight a round of combat. There just needs to be something more dynamic in the game and just lumping a rule that gives +1 to a roll is just so bland.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/08/02 15:00:27



 
   
Made in us
Scarred Ultramarine Tyrannic War Veteran






I mostly like the 9th edition Core Rules.

1. The current mission design needs to be set on fire and forgotten for all time. Bring back the 8th edition mission design. Keep Tempest of War.
2. Engagement Range should just be Engagement and require base-to-base contact. None of this 1", 1/2" of 1" and 2" through terrain nonsense. Models are engaged and can fight if they're in base-to-base contact... done.
3. Stratagems either need to be eliminated entirely or changed such that they're purchased during list building and are one use only.
4. Eliminate Warlord Traits and Relics.
5. Change Aura abilities to target a single unit in the Command Phase.
6. Reduce faction rules bloat. Reduce bespoke rules for units - not every damn unit needs to be special and have its own bespoke rules.
7. GW rules writers need to get their heads out their arse and set a strict, system wide design criteria for weapon strength, AP and Damage to keep things consistent and relatively balanced.
8. Make Grenades meaningful. Have them be a unit ability and not a weapon.
9. Eliminate Power Levels.
10. The current mission design needs to be set on fire and forgotten for all time. This cannot be stressed enough. The current mission design is trash. Mike Brandt = The new Matt Ward.

And...

11. Remove vehicle squadrons. There is no need to have these. This was a moronic idea to sell models and as a result hurt the game.
12. Remove the Flyer battlefield role from all detachments and have a specific Flyer detachment that's 1 to 3 Flyers.
13. Transports should be purchased with the unit.

Wish-listing...
Remove corporate influence from game design and game rules.


This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/08/02 15:29:36


 
   
Made in us
Veteran Knight Baron in a Crusader





The main change I want is strats to be more like Horus Heresy. 3-5 per army, 3-5 universal ones. We don't need 700 strats in the game.
   
Made in gb
Excited Doom Diver





If this were to happen, I think there would need to be a few high-level principles driving the changes - as such, I've organised my thoughts by category.

Simplify the game and reduce bloat
* Significantly reduce stratagems and tie their use to characters (like AoS command abilities). Also reduce auras and Command Phase abilities - these can be consolidated into a single system.
* Consolidate common rules into explicit keywords / USRs which are freely available.
* Reduce or remove subfaction benefits. Let the models decide how the game goes, not the paint scheme.

Reduce lethality and make models matter
* Lower both the volume and damage potential of weaponry across the board.
* Either remove mortal wounds entirely, or come up with a limited and well-defined set of usage conditions and stick to it.
* Re-introduce morale and bonuses for maneuvering. GW have begun to touch on this, but could do a lot more.
* Cut down all the re-rolls.

And if we're talking in a wishlist of implementable but unlikely ideas...
* Move to D10s to increase granularity.
* Significantly streamline and Consolidate weapon profiles - does a plasma gun really *need* to be different from a grav gun or a melta gun? Does that make sense at the current game scale?
* Look at the IGO-UGO system and consider how this can be tweaked to reduce waiting around. If it's not going to go to alternate activation or some other full shift away from IGO-UGO, consider things like AoS's reactive commands, 30K's reactions, or MtG's instants to provide models of how you can still have interactivity on a player-turn model.
   
Made in us
Bonkers Buggy Driver with Rockets





Italy

Line of Sight is a big one. Being able to shoot a tank with every weapon you have because an antenna is visible has always been silly to me.

I would love to see a reduction in the layers-upon-layers of rules.

I think we may also see changes to Strength and Toughness, with infantry going up to 6 or even 10; currently most infantry is in the 3-5 range.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/08/03 06:53:01


 
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






I would like to see the all of the current 40k rules writers to be replaced by other people. Preferably by a mix of AoS, KT, 30k and Armageddon authors.

Unless that happens, 10th will face the same issues as all the other editions they have written.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/08/02 15:43:13


[...] To the Ork, the only conceivable explanation for this is that the vehicle travels faster because it is red. However, as disturbing as it sounds, these 'facts' become true. Red Ork vehicles do travel perceptibly faster than those of other colors, even when all other design aspects are nominally the same. Similarly, many captured Ork weapons and items of equipment should not work, and indeed do not work unless wielded by an Ork. I believe this is linked to the strong psychic aura surrounding all Orkoids and have developed the Anzion Theorem of Orkoid Mechamorphic Resonant Kinetics. I theorise that many Ork inventions work because the Orks themselves think that they should work. The strong telekinetic abilities of the Ork's subconscious somehow ensures that the machinery or weaponry functions as desired.
This is literally all GW has ever writte on this topic - everything else is meme knowledge 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




The main thing I'd hope they do, which won't happen, is release all the Codices at once. It's going to suck having to wait through another cycle of releases, hoping your army isn't waiting until the very end.

More realistically, GW need to create a design document and stick to the principles within it. We shouldn't be seeing whole new paradigms in army or weapon design halfway through an edition because one writer thought it'd be cool. Things like, what damage an anti-tank weapon should do to vehicles, or what types of buff are available shouldn't radically change throughout an edition.

Bloat needs to be reduced. USRs are needed and strats need either completely removed or massively curtailed. Why do we have 40+ strats per army when only a handful get used? The layers upon layers of army, detachment and sub-faction buffs need seriously reining in. Lethality also needs to be reduced across the board. Switching away from IGOUGO could achieve this, but there are other solutions too, mainly around reversing the stat increases we've seen since the beginning of 8th.

I'd like to see a system that inherently limits buffs and debuffs in some way. Much like how modifiers to hit and wound don't stack beyond +/-1, I'd like a system that codifies and restricts buffs so we can stop units that normally hit on 4s and wound on 3s suddenly getting +1 to hit, reroll all hits, reroll 1s to wound and exploding 6s. Similarly, we can prevent units getting multiple debuffs. Basically, a unit's stats should matter much more than how many bonuses you can apply to them. The number of buffs, especially re-rolls, should probably be reduced anyway.

Reduce the number of dice being rolled. It's frankly ludicrous that we can need 40+ dice to resolve the hit rolls for a 10-man unit. Does a Punisher really need to roll 40 dice for its main gun? There are more elegant ways to represent these things. While we're at it, I'd like to see a removal of dual-profile close combat weapons. Things that do one big smash, or lots of smaller attacks, effectively just mean their unit doesn't have a weakness in close combat. That needs to stop.

Morale should matter more, and not just as a way to kill more models. Hardly anything should outright ignore morale.

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




AA needs to be implemented. It helps curb power creep significantly. Otherwise there's no point to a new edition except to take your money.
   
Made in us
Morally-Flexible Malleus Hearing Whispers




I would love to see AT/AI weapon profiles, where a AT round fired at a vehicle is the only way to damage it. Someweapons could be hybrid, like Plasma, but a Las Rifle shouldn't have the ability to wound Titans.

Remove Obsec entirely from the game, and just make all models count as 1 for holding objectives.

Remove Blast from the game, and make "blast" weapons auto-wound hordes (Anything with 5+ models+.

Remove Character Targeting rules. Just have "If you can see it you can shoot it. No more 12" Dreads hiding behind bodyguard units.

Remove "Fly" keyword, and just make them all aircraft
- Make all aircraft unable to hold objectives or capture points. Make Aircraft unable to be in melee with non-aircraft.

Remove Grenades.
Remove Assassins.
Remove Custodes/SoS.
Remove Inquisitors.

Make Inquisitors, Custodes, SoS, and Assassins a seperate dex.

Remove Strats.

Make the Guard able to freely soup with any other imperial faction.

Remove Before game strats.

Remove painting rule.

Remove Rule of 3.
   
Made in ie
Battleship Captain





 Jidmah wrote:
I would like to see the all of the current 40k rules writers to be replaced by other people. Preferably by a mix of AoS, KT, 30k and Armageddon authors.

Unless that happens, 10th will face the same issues as all the other editions they have written.


Honestly they need to hire designers from outside of GW. There are tonnes of great designers but GW insists in staying in house. Eric Lang for example (regardless of if you like his style or not) especially is great at designing streamlined games with low rules overhead which is exactly what GW wants from 40k AND he has experience designing wargames (he designed CMONs A Song Of Ice And Fire miniatures game). Even if they just brought him in as a consultant he'd do wonders for the game, but GW insists on promoting people from within the company to these positions and they rarely are much better at designing games than the people on Dakka.


 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Bring back USRS and redo missions. Some people like these, but make more interesting and flavorful ones.

Also get rid of secondaries. They are lame.

Bring in a modified 7th edition fantasy victory condition in as a game type.

Basically you just count how many points of stuff you killed and go there. Have holding objectives or something give you extra. It would be glorious.

Oh, and stop removing the magic of the dice. Bring back d3, d6 damage weapons. Those are fun. It would cut back on lethality quite a bit.

 
   
Made in gb
Boosting Space Marine Biker




UK

General stuff:
1. No strats (or at least most strats being standardised into either core rules or a generic card deck for single use like 2nd ed strategy card deck).
2. USR's linked to keywords/keywords on weapon profiles.
3. Keep IGOUGO (as AA on 40k scale would involve a lot of book keeping), but with more strategic choices like interruption mechanics.
4. Codify how allies should actually work. A general allied detachment that you can take one of travelling players style with a limit on spamming same datasheets would be fine.
5. Review rules with at least a nod to suspension of disbelief. For example melee superheavies only having a 1" range on weapons the size of a house is a bit silly (they should have a ranged profile so as to not break engagement range restrictions).
   
Made in us
Morally-Flexible Malleus Hearing Whispers




I forgot one!

Go to a d12 system, or just 2d6. d6 is killing the game.
   
Made in us
Mekboy Hammerin' Somethin'




Sedona, Arizona

Create a document which lays out design goals / code of conduct / standards for measuring power. Then fething use it. The intent being to keep all codex's throughout the edition similar in power and design ideaology, so we don't end up with Tyranid / D-eldar / Mechanicus / Harlies level codex' existing alongside those at Ork / Crons / D-guard.

Massively reduce lethality across the board.

Rework moral. Moral should be trigger by more than just taking losses, such as being shot without interceding cover or particularly dangerous / suppressing weapons. It should also not result in casualties but rather result in retreating, pinning, and more commonly reducing characteristics (shot in the open but don't take losses? Take a moral check, receiving a -1 BS modifier if you fail, but also a +1 to movement if you move towards the nearest cover). 30k is a step in the right direction in this regard, with ample pinning and the Shell Shock rule, but it's not enough.

Rework the armor system. 30k again has a better idea of this, with massively reducing the number of 'high penetration' weapons but also introducing effects such as breaching / scaling rending. Combining the two would be ideal; AP 4 is only heavy weapons and AP 3 / 2 is extremely rare, but a suitable number of weapons have breaching / rending / a rule to reduce armor saves by -1 or more.

Get rid of stratagems, rework them into command abilities & reactions.

Fix the melee vs shooting divide. Making shooting more effective at controlling your enemy (via the mentioned moral, suppression, ect) but significantly less lethal, where as melee is a "win or lose" state which results in higher casualties.

 welshhoppo wrote:

I like my Orks how I like my Emperor, dead.
 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






Relics
-Make them cost points again

Bring back more USR
-We need a handful USR, we already have them just make it centralized now, 10-15 is way enough
-Units needs a USR set too (Infantry, Beasts, Bike, Flyer, Fly, Monster, Vehicle, Walker, Tank, Titan, Knight) these can be used to help balance the game better for terrain, fallbacks, shooting in combat, etc...
-Add Horde/Large unit/Swarm etc..., as a Keyword for Blast to work against (Something like, If an attack hits, if a unit is larger than starting size add 1 auto hit, if double starting size add 2 to auto hits) Note this is an example of ideas

Terrain changes
-Old obscuring (aka can only kill what you see outside of ignore LoS/Cover)
-Better save mechanics to make it useful for all units and not just 2-4+ saves (aka 5+/6+/7+ saves)

Moral Overhaul
-I completely hate lose more version we have
-Some type of check still
-Way less immunity to moral
-Pinning, go to ground, force fallbacks, etc.. something that changes the game state and makes you want to go for these checks

Damage in game
-Damage is too high, too much ap, too many re-rolls, its why we have all these save stacking, ignore ap, can only take X damage per phase rules all over now
-Less dice over all please, why do I need 35 dice for a 5 man making attacks?

Stratagems
-Remove from game
-CP is only for Reactions, so its pseudo AA

Flyers/Airborne
-Make them Fast Skimmers not actual flyers

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/08/02 16:38:57


   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I forgot one!

Go to a d12 system, or just 2d6. d6 is killing the game.

2d6 is too long to roll out and has weirder averages
   
Made in us
Terrifying Doombull




 morganfreeman wrote:
Create a document which lays out design goals / code of conduct / standards for measuring power. Then fething use it. The intent being to keep all codex's throughout the edition similar in power and design ideaology, so we don't end up with Tyranid / D-eldar / Mechanicus / Harlies level codex' existing alongside those at Ork / Crons / D-guard.

Massively reduce lethality across the board.

Rework moral. Moral should be trigger by more than just taking losses, such as being shot without interceding cover or particularly dangerous / suppressing weapons. It should also not result in casualties but rather result in retreating, pinning, and more commonly reducing characteristics (shot in the open but don't take losses? Take a moral check, receiving a -1 BS modifier if you fail, but also a +1 to movement if you move towards the nearest cover). 30k is a step in the right direction in this regard, with ample pinning and the Shell Shock rule, but it's not enough.

Rework the armor system. 30k again has a better idea of this, with massively reducing the number of 'high penetration' weapons but also introducing effects such as breaching / scaling rending. Combining the two would be ideal; AP 4 is only heavy weapons and AP 3 / 2 is extremely rare, but a suitable number of weapons have breaching / rending / a rule to reduce armor saves by -1 or more.

Get rid of stratagems, rework them into command abilities & reactions.

Fix the melee vs shooting divide. Making shooting more effective at controlling your enemy (via the mentioned moral, suppression, ect) but significantly less lethal, where as melee is a "win or lose" state which results in higher casualties.


I agree with basically all of this. But especially the first one- a design document is mandatory and so basic to any sort of process.

Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
Made in us
Servoarm Flailing Magos






FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:

Remove Obsec entirely from the game, and just make all models count as 1 for holding objectives.


lol, and make most troops effectively useless
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:


Remove Character Targeting rules. Just have "If you can see it you can shoot it. No more 12" Dreads hiding behind bodyguard units.

Just make Characters part of squads again
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:

Remove "Fly" keyword, and just make them all aircraft
- Make all aircraft unable to hold objectives or capture points. Make Aircraft unable to be in melee with non-aircraft.

Damn, my raptors are now aircrafts? I guess NL needes the nerf




Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Insularum wrote:

3. Keep IGOUGO (as AA on 40k scale would involve a lot of book keeping), but with more strategic choices like interruption mechanics.


No it wouldn't. I don't know where people get that idea, do you magically forget which units you moves with during your turn?

And theres already other wargames that do AA with the same amount of units than 40k and its simply false that its too much book keeping.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/08/02 17:02:50


 
   
Made in ca
Sybarite Swinging an Agonizer



Ottawa

 Sim-Life wrote:
- no subfactions

I'm curious... Why are you against subfactions?

Cadians, Sisters of Battle (Valorous Heart), Drukhari (Obsidian Rose)

Read my Drukhari short stories: Chronicles of Commorragh 
   
Made in us
Boom! Leman Russ Commander





Alternating activations.

Vehicle facings.

Rest I'm too lazy to think up right now.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/08/02 17:06:23


 
   
Made in us
Servoarm Flailing Magos






 morganfreeman wrote:
Create a document which lays out design goals / code of conduct / standards for measuring power. Then fething use it. The intent being to keep all codex's throughout the edition similar in power and design ideaology, so we don't end up with Tyranid / D-eldar / Mechanicus / Harlies level codex' existing alongside those at Ork / Crons / D-guard.


Yeah, design the codexes all at the same time too, if theyre gonna start a new edition, they might as well delay it a bit so that every army is on an equal footing. No more waiting 3+ years with an out of date gakky codex only to play it for a few months before we start the loop again (my demons are weeping)
   
 
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