What is the connection between the Bad Moon and the Bad Moons clans?

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**F.E.A.R.**

This moon is located in the Realm of Slaanesh. In all my years into 40K I've never noticed that the moon in the Realm of Slaanesh is the same moon that the "Bad Moons" clan use. It's shape is that of a goblin head made into a moon. I've noticed this because of Warhammer 3 even though I've seen the map of the Realm of Chaos I've never payed that much attention to it.

Any lore on why is the moon connected with the clan? And why do Orks worship it? Is it because goblins, unlike Orks, enjoy torturing things and get pleasure and happiness out of that? Not in a malicious way, they enjoy it just like an Ork enjoys a good fight. I've read that the moon drives Orks mad. It's weird that it's located in the Realm of Slaanesh, it's more like Slaanesh also wants the souls of the goblins (IDK how it's in WHFB but in 40K we know that Orks and goblins don't have souls) maybe even Orks?

While some might deny this, just gonna say "The map is from WHFB doesn't apply to 40K" I digress because the two universes are connected, the depiction of the Realm of Chaos in Warhammer is the same in 40K.

I really wish we could get Lorgar back into the setting and him write a Realm of Chaos explaining how it is, like equivalent to Liber Malific.

**solkan**

You (not the orks) are being driven mad by a coincidence in naming, just as Slaanesh would want.

**Gert**

The Bad Moons just use it as a symbol, they don't worship it in the same way the Gloomspite do in AoS.
The Realm of Chaos from AoS and the Warp from 40k are similar but not the same. In the same way that Primus and Unicron from Transformers exist in different realities with different forms, so do those areas belonging to the Dark Gods. In AoS it's a realm that one can access using various magics and rituals whereas in 40k they are sections of Warpspace or Daemon Worlds within the Warp. AoS and 40k do not share a side universe where the Chaos factions kick about, its been stated quite a few times that they are entirely separate universes.

**mrFickle**

The Warhammer fantasy battles work existed within a warp storm within the 40K universe. They went through their end times but many creatures and characters made it into the world of AOS, which presumably exists in various dimensions or planes of existence that are part of the 40K universe.

Any crossovers are a result of the shared origins of the 2 game worlds. But just because 2 things in both world seem the same, it doesn’t mean that they are

**Gert**

mrFickle wrote:
The Warhammer fantasy battles work existed within a warp storm within the 40K universe.

And at one time the entirety of 40k existed inside a bottle on a Wizard's shelf in the Fantasy universe. They aren't connected outside of headcanon and theorising, which this isn't.

They went through their end times but many creatures and characters made it into the world of AOS, which presumably exists in various dimensions or planes of existence that are part of the 40K universe.

It doesn't. The Mortal Realms are their own universe created by the unleashing of the Winds of Magic and the destruction of the Old World. As you go on to say, there are similarities because each universe has a shared origin in that they were created by GW with 40k as the Scifi spinoff of Warhammer. Beyond that there is nothing in anything past the 90s outside of fan theories that connect the two universes.

**mrFickle**

Well I might not have any hard and fast evidence but the 4 chose gods existing in all worlds is too much of a cross over for me if the answer is just laziness. So for me they are all just part of the same universe somehow

**Gert**

Like I said earlier though, there are other franchises with multiple universes with the same individuals and locations but different. I mean one of the most famous Star Trek episodes was the Mirror-verse stuff with goatee Spock.
The Gods are present in multiple universes because in an infinite number of universes they were bound to be. That's how a multiverse works. Blood Bowl is the same world as WHFB but a different universe where everyone stopped doing war and did extra violent American Football thanks to Nuffel.

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

I’ll check my Orky books later, and return with the relevant quote of why Bad Moonz are called Bad Moonz.

**F.E.A.R.**

Gert wrote:
The Bad Moons just use it as a symbol, they don't worship it in the same way the Gloomspite do in AoS.

There must be something in the books as to why they use it and detailing the connection, unless it was forgotten by GW to actually explain. The Bad Moon in Slaanesh's realm cannot be an entirely different thing from the same symbol that the Orkz use.

I'm not that into Ork lore in 40K but I just did some quick research and the Bad Moons are the only Ork clan that uses the finest well crafted orky things, also well decorated. They're the ones that came up with teef being a currency. They're big merchants and they value gold. They use gold more than any other metal. It's not wonder why they use the color yellow. And what does gold symbolize?

From Google "Reminiscent of luxury, success, achievement, triumph, royalty, and fortune, the color Gold is named after the precious metal of the same name. The meaning of the color Gold is multifaceted, often denoting generosity and compassion, as well as being synonymous with divinity and power in many religious settings."

And we all know who's connected with gold and royalty, Slaanesh. I'm not saying that they're direct worshipers of Slaanesh, because he's purple and they cant see him, but in old lore there were Orkz that fell to Chaos and I know some fell to Nurgle but this was retconned. Another example I want to throw here about old lore being retconned is Chaos forces joining with the Orkz to defeat their foes. This was in old lore and was adapted in the Dawn of War games.

Other than the Bad Moons, the only ones that used colors of royalty were the EC pre-heresy, using the color purple and gold.

"The color purple is often associated with royalty, nobility, luxury, power, and ambition. Purple also represents meanings of wealth, extravagance, creativity, wisdom, dignity, grandeur, devotion, peace, pride, mystery, independence, and magic."

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

No particular reason given for why Bad Moonz are Bad Moonz in Waaargh! The Orks or Freebooterz I’m afraid.

**F.E.A.R.**

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
No particular reason given for why Bad Moonz are Bad Moonz in Waaargh! The Orks or Freebooterz I’m afraid.

It's ok! I know there were Chaos orkz in old lore but this was rectonned by GW. Perhaps the Bad Moon was some sort of set up a link between the Ork clan and Slaanesh but was forgotten on the way. Whatever idea they had with the Orkz being corrupted by Chaos was scrapped later on and Bad Moons were just left Bad Moons with no connection to the Bad Moon and Slaanesh. Orks that fell to Chaos were to Khorne and Nurgle, and Nurgle solely because he was green. Maybe there was sort of idea for Bad Moons clan to fall to Slaanesh but like I said was scrapped midway.

**Gert**

F.E.A.R. wrote:
There must be something in the books as to why they use it and detailing the connection, unless it was forgotten by GW to actually explain.

Orcs and Orks share the same origin, which means they share many of the same symbols such as the Evil Sun and Bad Moon. That's the explanation. You're looking for something that doesn't exist.

Spoiler:

You're looking way too deeply into this. The Bad Moons like gold because it's shiny and shows off how rich they are. To the Orks, purple is a sneaky colour for no real reason other than it's funny. These connections are wild and not actually connections outside of the flimsiest of premises.

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

F.E.A.R. wrote:
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
No particular reason given for why Bad Moonz are Bad Moonz in Waaargh! The Orks or Freebooterz I’m afraid.

It's ok! I know there were Chaos orkz in old lore but this was rectonned by GW. Perhaps the Bad Moon was some sort of set up a link between the Ork clan and Slaanesh but was forgotten on the way. Whatever idea they had with the Orkz being corrupted by Chaos was scrapped later on and Bad Moons were just left Bad Moons with no connection to the Bad Moon and Slaanesh. Orks that fell to Chaos were to Khorne and Nurgle, and Nurgle solely because he was green. Maybe there was sort of idea for Bad Moons clan to fall to Slaanesh but like I said was scrapped midway.

Well, some Orks would worship Khorne, becoming Khorne’s Stormboyz, but most would grow out of it. Those most dedicated became outcasts.

Orky Mutants aren’t willing at all, and are described as often not understanding why Ork Society suddenly shuns them. Their mutations typically come from exposure to the Warp - and pretty much never worship of the Chaos Gods.

Indeed, Chaos holds little promise to Orks. Orks want to fight, get stuff, fight some more, and get more stuff. Their society is entirely permissive toward those goals. Out of Teef? It’s perfectly acceptable to just beat someone else up and steal their Teef, because Ork Society wholly accepts Might Makes Right.

And so the Chaos Pantheon just doesn’t have the same footholds in the Orky psyche as they do other races - to say nothing of the Orkoid race’s absolute faith in Gork and Mork.

It’s also interesting to consider Orks just don’t really seem to ask anything of their Gods on the personal level. They want the Warboss to lead them to a good fight - and typically get that. If the Warboss can’t? It’s a sing of Gork, or possibly Mork’s, disfavour. Which means a big old internal punch up to see who gets to lead next.

I’d argue Slaanesh has the least to offer Orks overall, because a life of excess is always possible for an Ork anyway. Even if you go too far and get banished? It’s a Freebooterz life for you, and greater potential riches as a result. What does the promise of “you can do whatever you want” have to a species which, typically, does whatever it wants until someone bigger cracks you down?

**mrFickle**

I thought the deal was that orks would fight for a chaos warlord if they were ‘ard enough and promising a good scrap. But weren’t really open to worship and giving away their soul because they know gork and mork would knock their heads off if they did

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

Well, that and they know Gork and Mork are stronger than the other Gods, so why would you worship a weed? Remember, Gork once knocked all of Khorne’s Teef out with a single swing of his club. Khorne has never never duffed up Gork. Or even Mork.

**Lord Zarkov**

It’s worth noting that the warp is shaped by belief, so perhaps you’re looking at this from the wrong angle:

Orks (and WFB goblins) are unlikely to be deliberately worshiping an aspect of Slaanesh; but is quite possible that 40k Bad Moonz’ and WFB Night Goblins’ worshiping of the Bad Moon created an entity within the warp/aether and it just happens to be within Slaanesh’s realm because that’s what the concepts it represents best align with.