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Evening,

I've not picked up the Cadia Stands box, so haven't had a look at the new IG 'dex, but looking at the 2023 Munitorum Field Manual has lead to a few questions I was hoping the hive mind could answer...

1, Am I right in thinking that all three Officers have been rolled into a Command Squad each, so you don't take them solo any more?
1a, If so, where's the generic Company Command Squad? I see a Cadian Command Squad listed, and a generic Platoon one, but not a generic Company one.

2, I take it Conscripts and Special Weapon Squads are both gone now?

3, Commissar Yarrick, Lord Castellan Creed and Jarred Kell should all be in Legends, correct, assuming that doc gets updated?

4, How different are Scions and Kasrkin? Which do people think would be a better fit for =][= ST?

5, Given I converted one last year and a price isn't quoted for it in the MFM, can the Storm Trooper Officer in the Command Squad still take a Power Fist?

1. Close but not quite. Company Commander is now a Castellan (independent character), everything else is now a special type of platoon command squad.
2. No model, no rules (even if it's just a name on a boxset that distinguishes guardsman with lasgun is unit X).
3. Yes, by their own standards they should be legends - if it gets updated.
4. They are very similar, Kasrkin are just flat better though (Kasrkin get regimental traits +1, Scions deepstrike and fit awkwardly into their own detachments).
5. No model, no rules (Scion commander always wears a special coat, you cannot stick an official power fist arm from the same kit on him therefore he cannot have it).

2 is irritating, but just means some reorganisation (and building out 3 more metal Catachan squads around the flamer and lasgun dudes from the SWS). Glad I didn't paint the helmet stripes on my Cadian Conscripts, though.

Regarding 5, that's really annoying, given this guy. I'm going to guess I'm doubly unlucky in that regard, and that the Power Sword option has also been pulled, rendering this guy as also being invalid?

Given I'm not planning on taking them to tournaments, hopefully opponents would be OK with me using them as WYSIWYG at the costs listed for other characters (so, oddly, 5 points for either weapon, going by Castellan or Commissar prices).

 Dysartes wrote:

5, Given I converted one last year and a price isn't quoted for it in the MFM, can the Storm Trooper Officer in the Command Squad still take a Power Fist?

The MFM doesn't change what options are available, just how much - if any - points you have to spend on such options. The new codex may have changed the options but the MFM offers no clues that can "prove a negative" in this case.

They dropped the ball with Scions.

They could've given them their own section with their own traits and whatnot ala Harlis in the Eldar Codex.

Instead they decided to chuck 'em at the back of the army list, after the super-heavies, and give them nothing.

Breton wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:

5, Given I converted one last year and a price isn't quoted for it in the MFM, can the Storm Trooper Officer in the Command Squad still take a Power Fist?

The MFM doesn't change what options are available, just how much - if any - points you have to spend on such options. The new codex may have changed the options but the MFM offers no clues that can "prove a negative" in this case.

This was why I was concerned, and was asking those who had access to the book for a clarification.

Given the Cadian Command Squad, the Castellan and the Platoon Command Squad all list a cost for the Power Fist, it would've been weird if the Storm Trooper Command Squad got it for free. But I still wanted to check to make sure.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
They dropped the ball with Scions.

They could've given them their own section with their own traits and whatnot ala Harlis in the Eldar Codex.

Instead they decided to chuck 'em at the back of the army list, after the super-heavies, and give them nothing.

Got to sell those new Kasrkin models somehow.

But TBH making them a separate army in the first place was a bad idea and an example of 6th-7th edition codex bloat. There's nowhere near enough content in a single unit to make a whole separate faction out of it without padding out the page count with poor quality filler. And their on-table performance never worked either, they were too much of a one-dimensional army that either beat you with its gimmick or got tabled in a couple turns. Nor is there any real design space to fix the problem, especially in an edition where Valkyries are hopelessly broken. It's time to just accept that the 7th edition pseudo-codex was a mistake and they don't need their own separate sub-faction any more than we need Codex: Hellhound.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Dysartes wrote:
I'm going to guess I'm doubly unlucky in that regard, and that the Power Sword option has also been pulled, rendering this guy as also being invalid?

Unfortunately yes. Storm trooper command squads can not take a melee weapon of any kind. Your best option is to use them as sergeants, which can take a power sword or power fist.

I have checked, but can't believe this. They removed the melee wargear from the tempestor prime. There is definitely models (power sword and power fist) in the sprue, but no rules. It may be an omission. You should definetly complain to the customer service, because your model made "directly from the box parts " is not playable anymore.

 Ravajaxe wrote:
I have checked, but can't believe this. They removed the melee wargear from the tempestor prime. There is definitely models (power sword and power fist) in the sprue, but no rules. It may be an omission. You should definetly complain to the customer service, because your model made "directly from the box parts " is not playable anymore.

*Giggles in Squat* *Chuckles in Tomb King* *Rolls on the floor laughing in Bretonian*

They've killed off entire factions. My advice is to put them on the shelf and wait an edition or two. They'll probably be back. The dumber it was, the sooner they'll be back. I've heard rumors old Fantasy is even supposed to be coming back.

 Ravajaxe wrote:
I have checked, but can't believe this. They removed the melee wargear from the tempestor prime. There is definitely models (power sword and power fist) in the sprue, but no rules. It may be an omission. You should definetly complain to the customer service, because your model made "directly from the box parts " is not playable anymore.

lol, you forget that to build the "Tempestor Prime" as shown with the dumb coat over shoulders? None of the other weapon options fit. It's the stupid dagger clutching hand and the pistols/command rod.


They should have just bit the bullet and said that's a Lord-Commissar or something else.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
They dropped the ball with Scions.

They could've given them their own section with their own traits and whatnot ala Harlis in the Eldar Codex.

Instead they decided to chuck 'em at the back of the army list, after the super-heavies, and give them nothing.

I note they're also Elites now, rather than Troops, so unless they have an exception to the Rule o' 3, it becomes somewhat tricky to build an army of them.

*looks at the 40 =][= Storm Troopers in his cabinet and sighs*

If you're actually building an army of them, they become Troops via a Detachment Ability.

 Kanluwen wrote:
If you're actually building an army of them, they become Troops via a Detachment Ability.

Ah, that's good to know, at least. Certainly looking to have an Inquisitorial Storm Trooper detachment, though I'm going to have to fill out a couple of Command Squads now.

 Dysartes wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
If you're actually building an army of them, they become Troops via a Detachment Ability.

Ah, that's good to know, at least. Certainly looking to have an Inquisitorial Storm Trooper detachment, though I'm going to have to fill out a couple of Command Squads now.

You might want to wait and see how the Agents of the Imperium stuff will shake out. There's been some tweaking in the MFM and Boarding Actions PDFs.

BA makes Acolytes into mandatory 5 model units with the Troops role, for example.

 Dysartes wrote:
Evening,

I've not picked up the Cadia Stands box, so haven't had a look at the new IG 'dex, but looking at the 2023 Munitorum Field Manual has lead to a few questions I was hoping the hive mind could answer...

1, Am I right in thinking that all three Officers have been rolled into a Command Squad each, so you don't take them solo any more?
1a, If so, where's the generic Company Command Squad? I see a Cadian Command Squad listed, and a generic Platoon one, but not a generic Company one.

2, I take it Conscripts and Special Weapon Squads are both gone now?

3, Commissar Yarrick, Lord Castellan Creed and Jarred Kell should all be in Legends, correct, assuming that doc gets updated?

4, How different are Scions and Kasrkin? Which do people think would be a better fit for =][= ST?

5, Given I converted one last year and a price isn't quoted for it in the MFM, can the Storm Trooper Officer in the Command Squad still take a Power Fist?

1. all officers are not in command squad. you get a jr officer or what ever term they use in the codex and you get a castellan(Sr. officer). the castellan is on his own, and the JO is in the command squad.
2. yes, and no. if you want conscripts take a bare bones infantry squad. the new squad types are special weapon heavy so can be considered special weapons squads under new names and new rules.
3. they're not there now.
4. the most important difference is that kasrkin look sooo much better. kasrkin also get an extra army trait, while scions i believe can deep strike.

Honestly after a handful of games I can't find a reason to use scions in anymore. The book is pretty powerful but leans heavy on kasrkin and. Born soldiers plus russes. Russi? Anyway I would suggest kasrkin because that's where you'll find the customization from doctrines to match IST better. Scions got nuthin.

dominuschao wrote:
Honestly after a handful of games I can't find a reason to use scions in anymore. The book is pretty powerful but leans heavy on kasrkin and. Born soldiers plus russes. Russi? Anyway I would suggest kasrkin because that's where you'll find the customization from doctrines to match IST better. Scions got nuthin.

born soldiers is so stupid and unnecessary in this codex. I can’t imagine anyone but unimaginative power players actually choosing born soldiers.

johnpjones1775 wrote:

dominuschao wrote:
born soldiers is so stupid and unnecessary in this codex. I can’t imagine anyone but unimaginative power players actually choosing born soldiers.

Agreed. At first it seemed great to me but the more I played and brewed the more I found it a limiting factor. I am now convinced it holds the entire book back. I did email gw some feedback, for whatever that does.. but I hope this was a test run and the actual official release sees some changes. I don't wanna use BS but I'd like some real incentive to take other options and most of the current ones are lacking to me. Mechanized has the most potential for my purposes but then 1 kasrkin get that anyway. Annoying.

Uh the codex done. Next one out in years ahead.

They pulled worse before remember traitor legions.. and kasrkin have a medic option in the kit which seems like an option they left open. Meh it doesn't happen no biggy.

dominuschao wrote:
They pulled worse before remember traitor legions.. and kasrkin have a medic option in the kit which seems like an option they left open. Meh it doesn't happen no biggy.

Kasrkin have a Medic option, a Recon option, and the Sergeant can take a Lasgun...despite none of those being things you can do in the codex.

It happens.