Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So not even having a soul (Def of Blank unless I'm mistaken) means they are invisible to the Warp, or actually nullify it. They are unable to be seen via the warp or with warp sight. So the Emperor literally cannot see them. When they die, not having a soul, what would even go to "heaven" or go sit by the emperor after death? Are we saying the Sisters of Silence get no reward after death?

Does anyone?

Blanks/Pariahs are more than the absence of a soul - they’re for want of a better term a negative. Hence they’re not only unaffected by Warp Craft, but disrupt it locally.

If the soul does meet The Emperor (or is subsumed into him as the closest aligned Warp power to that particular soul) then Pariahs/Blanks most definitely don’t.

As I understand it humans don't go anywhere when they die in 40k. Their soul, while having some potential, is to weak to survive outside of their body. It either goes to the warp, getting torn apart in the crossing, or it just flickers out. The whole 'goes to the emperor' is just a religious tenet that is incorrect.

The exceptions might be some psykers with particularly resilient souls, but they would just end up in the warp and get hunted by deamons.
Another exception might be some of those sworn to Chaos, but I wouldn't rely on Chaos to be well.. reliable with that. Except for Nurgle :( :( :(.

I guess if you go with the lore of the Emperor as a nascent chaos god (slaanesh 2.0, yay... eyes usually come in pairs right?) some souls would maybe get picked up by his warp forces, but that's like, the legion of the damned, the saint Celestine and any other living saint, and Sanguinor. So unless you're a space marine or sister of battle with decisively above average fanatism you'd still be gak out of luck.

So then how does Cain get into a close knit prayer session with St Katherine and St Celestine? Or where does Sly Marbo go when he gets bored with immortality?

It seems super screwed up that the Imperial Cult is allowed to preach nonsense to even the Sisters when its common knowledge that it's basically a lie.

Cain isn’t a blank.

Gunner Jurgen, Cain’s personal aide is a blank.

And whilst I accept my knowledge may have a gap, Sly Marbl isn’t a Blank either?

I was referring to the whole, "Souls don't go anwhere after death" bit

That’s the open, unanswered question.

We know that souls exist. And we know what happens to some souls after death.

Whether The Emperor has sufficient pull in The Warp to scoff his follower’s souls over the Big Four, we’ve absolutely no idea.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It’s also quite explicit that SoB acts of faith still work in the Pariah Nexus, which is strongly suggestive whatever is powering those isn’t warpcraft.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
It seems super screwed up that the Imperial Cult is allowed to preach nonsense to even the Sisters when its common knowledge that it's basically a lie.

Today on the DakkaDakka Background Forum: Fezzik discovers religion.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
That’s the open, unanswered question.

We know that souls exist. And we know what happens to some souls after death.

Whether The Emperor has sufficient pull in The Warp to scoff his follower’s souls over the Big Four, we’ve absolutely no idea.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It’s also quite explicit that SoB acts of faith still work in the Pariah Nexus, which is strongly suggestive whatever is powering those isn’t warpcraft.

The dampening of Celestine's power (along with the weakening or banishment of manifested Chaos daemons) by the Cadian pylons was strongly suggestive that the SoB and related Imperial faith powers are warpcraft.

This has been discussed before.

My take on the subject is:

They're warp based like pretty much all the supernatural powers in the 40K universe.

However their faith based powers maybe can be contrasted vs a psyker's powers in the same way D&D makes a distinction between divine magic and arcane magic. Divine magic is granted magic by an entity in response to worship and prayer, while arcane magic is magic accessed through one's own knowledge and abilities. The prayers of the SoB are answered by the Emperor (or at least an entity that listens to their prayers, whether that is the original Emperor or a warp entity formed from the beliefs of humanity that answers to that title). Maybe warp power that is pushed through from the other side by a god scale entity is less likely to be dampened than an individual psyker attempting to access the warp from realspace.

As for how to explain Celestine's dampening on Cadia when the pylon network was activated? Maybe the pylons were being pushed beyond their normal baseline operating parameters to an unsustainable overdrive level. They after all managed to shrink the Eye of Terror slightly before the pylons started shattering and the whole network fell apart from the rebound of the Eye.

The Necron structures of the Pariah Nexus may just be running at the long term sustainable level, explaining why divinely based abilities are not dampened. Also maybe the Necrons don't fully understand the warp so their attempts to shield against it are imperfect.

Iracundus wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
That’s the open, unanswered question.

We know that souls exist. And we know what happens to some souls after death.

Whether The Emperor has sufficient pull in The Warp to scoff his follower’s souls over the Big Four, we’ve absolutely no idea.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It’s also quite explicit that SoB acts of faith still work in the Pariah Nexus, which is strongly suggestive whatever is powering those isn’t warpcraft.

The dampening of Celestine's power (along with the weakening or banishment of manifested Chaos daemons) by the Cadian pylons was strongly suggestive that the SoB and related Imperial faith powers are warpcraft.

This has been discussed before.

My take on the subject is:

They're warp based like pretty much all the supernatural powers in the 40K universe.

However their faith based powers maybe can be contrasted vs a psyker's powers in the same way D&D makes a distinction between divine magic and arcane magic. Divine magic is granted magic by an entity in response to worship and prayer, while arcane magic is magic accessed through one's own knowledge and abilities. The prayers of the SoB are answered by the Emperor (or at least an entity that listens to their prayers, whether that is the original Emperor or a warp entity formed from the beliefs of humanity that answers to that title). Maybe warp power that is pushed through from the other side by a god scale entity is less likely to be dampened than an individual psyker attempting to access the warp from realspace.

As for how to explain Celestine's dampening on Cadia when the pylon network was activated? Maybe the pylons were being pushed beyond their normal baseline operating parameters to an unsustainable overdrive level. They after all managed to shrink the Eye of Terror slightly before the pylons started shattering and the whole network fell apart from the rebound of the Eye.

The Necron structures of the Pariah Nexus may just be running at the long term sustainable level, explaining why divinely based abilities are not dampened. Also maybe the Necrons don't fully understand the warp so their attempts to shield against it are imperfect.

My theory is that perhaps just as the pylons stop psykers pulling warp energy from the warp into the materium, perhaps they also trap energy that would be generated in the warp by strong faith in the materium. Thus AS faith powers still work and explaining why their faith mitigates the pylons depressing effects on non-psykers (because they can absorb the faith energy).

Celestine can obviously draw on faith power but probably uses quite a bit of normal warp power most of the time as well. Presumably on Cadia there wasn’t enough faith to mitigate the lack of the latter.

So are SoS held in higher regard by the Emperor than SoB? How do SoS see the emperor, is that ever discussed? How blanks perceive the Emperor? Do they just see a husk, or can even they not block all his powers of mental persuasion?

Lord Zarkov wrote:
My theory is that perhaps just as the pylons stop psykers pulling warp energy from the warp into the materium, perhaps they also trap energy that would be generated in the warp by strong faith in the materium. Thus AS faith powers still work and explaining why their faith mitigates the pylons depressing effects on non-psykers (because they can absorb the faith energy).

Celestine can obviously draw on faith power but probably uses quite a bit of normal warp power most of the time as well. Presumably on Cadia there wasn’t enough faith to mitigate the lack of the latter.

That's an interesting theory. My own pet take is that there are different mechanisms for channeling the warp. There's the overt method we see with psychic powers, and then more passive (usually) effects like acts of faith, red paint making things go faster, supernatural exarch powers, etc. My theory being that blanks, pylons, etc. block the overt method but not the subtler method. The subtler method seems to be tied to deeply ingrained or even subconscious mental constructs while the overt method is more like actively using muscles to manipulate warp stuff. An ork doesn't necessarily know he's supernaturally speeding up his vehicle with red paint; he and his friends just have to know in their bones that red paint *does* make it go faster.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:So are SoS held in higher regard by the Emperor than SoB? How do SoS see the emperor, is that ever discussed? How blanks perceive the Emperor? Do they just see a husk, or can even they not block all his powers of mental persuasion?

To my knowledge, I don't think we've ever seen a blank in the same room as the Emperor. Additionally, the Emperor was on the throne by the time the SoB were founded, and he doesn't seem to have taken the time to compare and contrast the two with anyone since. If he's even aware that the SoB exist.

If the SoS are anything to go by, Blanks see the Emperor in his true form, a human warlord. None of the glowing halos or blinding light, just a guy in armour. Still very charismatic and stuff but the aspect of the Emperor that gets enhanced by his psychic prowess is absent.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
So then how does Cain get into a close knit prayer session with St Katherine and St Celestine? Or where does Sly Marbo go when he gets bored with immortality?

It seems super screwed up that the Imperial Cult is allowed to preach nonsense to even the Sisters when its common knowledge that it's basically a lie.

The Caine novels are lighthearted comedies and Sly Marbo is a meme.

And it's not common knowledge. In the imperium, either believe in the religion for real, or otherwise keep your mouth shut, or you'll get tortured, tortured and executed, or tortured and forcible turned into a servitor.

The fortyfirst millenium is an age of ignorance and fanaticism. 40k is grim dark.

But there's lots of lore so if you prefer a less grim dark version just go with that.

StaevinTheAeldari wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
So then how does Cain get into a close knit prayer session with St Katherine and St Celestine? Or where does Sly Marbo go when he gets bored with immortality?

It seems super screwed up that the Imperial Cult is allowed to preach nonsense to even the Sisters when its common knowledge that it's basically a lie.

The Caine novels are lighthearted comedies and Sly Marbo is a meme.

And it's not common knowledge. In the imperium, either believe in the religion for real, or otherwise keep your mouth shut, or you'll get tortured, tortured and executed, or tortured and forcible turned into a servitor.

The fortyfirst millenium is an age of ignorance and fanaticism. 40k is grim dark.

But there's lots of lore so if you prefer a less grim dark version just go with that.

The average imperial citizen is aware that witches exist and are generally dangerous if not outright evil, but other than that they have only the dimmest awareness of details about how 'witchery' works, it's mostly heavily-redacted knowledge on a need-to-know basis, practical tips how to find and fight them, and religious or common belief superstition. Even for people that deal with psychic phenomena as part of their job, it's often down to untested theories or guesswork. That blanks exist at all, or how they work, is knowledge that is not exactly common even in the inquisition or other top-level organizations.

That being said, imperial religion is vastly multicultural, and surprisingly tolerant of idiosynchrasies and 'local flair' as long as you stick to the core tenets of the God-Emperor being the saviour of mankind and profess loyality to him. That's part of what enables e.g. Genestealer or Chaotic cults to operate semi-openly sometimes, they just blend in with the other weird offshoots of the imperial creed. Other sects worship Suns as incarnations of the Emperor, or venerate great beast or natural phenomena, a four-armed Battle-God is not too outlandish.

Blanks tend to get ostracised or killed because they make people uncomfortable in a physical way. Those psychically attuned races tend to react badly to Blanks and as such they are often found on the fringes of Imperial society, scratching out a living in the lowest Hive levels or as hermits.

 Wyldhunt wrote:

Lord Zarkov wrote:
My theory is that perhaps just as the pylons stop psykers pulling warp energy from the warp into the materium, perhaps they also trap energy that would be generated in the warp by strong faith in the materium. Thus AS faith powers still work and explaining why their faith mitigates the pylons depressing effects on non-psykers (because they can absorb the faith energy).

Celestine can obviously draw on faith power but probably uses quite a bit of normal warp power most of the time as well. Presumably on Cadia there wasn’t enough faith to mitigate the lack of the latter.

That's an interesting theory. My own pet take is that there are different mechanisms for channeling the warp. There's the overt method we see with psychic powers, and then more passive (usually) effects like acts of faith, red paint making things go faster, supernatural exarch powers, etc. My theory being that blanks, pylons, etc. block the overt method but not the subtler method. The subtler method seems to be tied to deeply ingrained or even subconscious mental constructs while the overt method is more like actively using muscles to manipulate warp stuff. An ork doesn't necessarily know he's supernaturally speeding up his vehicle with red paint; he and his friends just have to know in their bones that red paint *does* make it go faster.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:So are SoS held in higher regard by the Emperor than SoB? How do SoS see the emperor, is that ever discussed? How blanks perceive the Emperor? Do they just see a husk, or can even they not block all his powers of mental persuasion?

To my knowledge, I don't think we've ever seen a blank in the same room as the Emperor. Additionally, the Emperor was on the throne by the time the SoB were founded, and he doesn't seem to have taken the time to compare and contrast the two with anyone since. If he's even aware that the SoB exist.

We have literal proof that they were guarding the Emperor for centuries, and after VERY recent events, do so again now. They are the literal guardians of the Emperor, at the right hand of the Custodians. Where did you get the idea that there's never been one in the same room?

In regards to whether or not Human Souls pass to the side of the Emperor