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By now you've all seen the new 10th edition trailer, which I personally love (sorry if you're a tougher critic than I am), and cannot stop thinking about.

In particullary the ending of the trailer. The whole movie leads up to the ending, in what I would call a brilliant summary of not only the present state in-verse, but as brutally honest critique of our present times. I'm reeling with the feels and dying to make analogies, but not sure if that's possible without treading into politics and religion which is most apt to attract incivility (which in itself, that is to say forum etiquette a symptom of wider held malcontempt with each other in society) ...So let's try to avoid that despite the fact this trailer is bleeding with a moral for us all.

Considering this and the focus of 10th with humanity fighting off the monster (or at least presented as so in the trailer) as opposed to each other, I believe this couldn't have been a better introduction to a wider audience. But then it goes one step further.

Did you relate to Guilliman's words at the very end? Did you catch the moral? Do you see the analogies? Is this an adaptation of Carl Sagan's The Demon Haunted World, his Candle in the Dark? and his foreboding?

If it's possible to keep this level of narrative for a movie Henry Cavill 'd like to make with Amazon studios (which I have great reservations about) they will knock this out of the ball park imho.


Here's the shortened version of the ending, but this cannot be fully digested without seeing the full version first:


https://youtube.com/shorts/_p2uh-6kVfY



Full version:







So I hope the mods don't think I just tossed out a hand grenade as that's not my intent.


I'm not here to champion any ideology. Already articles and discussions are popping up around the Internet over this trailer ready to make their tired associations and point the finger, and I think this is a perfect example of the moral to the story that's being given by Guilliman.


At the very least how did it make you feel?



Beginning:


"Victory" that is what the preachers cry.


Ending:


"Victory" as the galaxy burns...


"Victory" as the Imperium rots around us...


"Victory!" as humanity rages against the dying of the light...


Victory...

 AtoMaki wrote:
Personally, I prefer when a piece of cinematic gets the point across while the most meaningful dialogue in it is AAAAAAAAAAA! Angsty voiceovers are just not my thing.

Yes I was happy that didn't didn't feature. Hear me roar is way overdone. And the action wasn't over the top, but still shined, (marines standing their ground, gets feels) while being complimented with the narrative.

I wouldn't say I'm easily entertained when it comes to movie trailers, but maybe a tad over sentimental?

Plus I think the minimum expectation is rare these days, so that alone is worth grabbing a tissue for.

alextroy wrote:The is a very 40K Trailer. Everyone cries for Victory, but the one man in a position to know how things are going knows while victory is the only way for Humanity to survive, there is no victory to be had because In the Grim Darkness of the Far Future, There is Only War.

I think that's a very good assessment, getting it back to the basics of a grimdark dystopia.

MalusCalibur wrote:I think you're reading far too much into a showy trailer for a tabletop wargame. Certainly the whole spiel by Girlyman in it does a better job of capturing what 40k is supposed to be (i.e. bleak, hopeless, and eternally locked in war) than most GW media has for years, but taking any further meaning from it than that is really reaching.
This is not a feature film or psychoanalysis of the human condition. It's an advert for plastic soldiers.

Heh, while that sure would make it simple and case closed. It kinda shuts the door on what 40K has become beyond the minis game, i.e. a satire on the human condition, a tragedy of the human experience, and a parody of our institutions both governmental and religious (think it was always a parody, but has become a satire).

While I've seen many a warhammer trailer I can't recall any for the tabletop or at least any that stayed with me. Considering they went to such a length to produce something like this for a refreshed set of plastic army men - while popular - is still somewhat of a niche among other forums of entertainment; so.. I also get the feeling this is a proactive set up for the potential Amazon production.

MalusCalibur wrote:With how utterly flanderised and ridiculous it has become, the only thing 40k parodies these days is itself. To claim it as 'a satire on the human condition, a tragedy of the human experience, and a parody of our institutions both governmental and religious' gives the current writers an absurd amount of undue credit, and comes across remarkably pretentious.

You've been in the game too long brother maybe so...

Mr. Burning wrote:

40k did satire better in the early years, and that was mediocre.

This is GW mining the ONLY WAR! one minute to midnight setting with the same protagonists in different costumes yet again.

Its been a durable gold mine for years and will continue to be so, ill still partake of the odd hit, but there isn't any real nuance here.

Its a nice trailer for GW's cash cow. I doubt it has anything to do with Amazons future efforts.

Victory!

Victory!

Oh but it does... look at this from the WH community page:

Warhammer 40,000 is set in the far future, where humanity stands at the edge of what might be its brightest future, or its darkest age. The threats to humankind’s empire are many — traitors driven by the fires of ambition, alien empires sworn to reclaim the stars, and the corruption of reality by malevolent gods.
https://www.warhammer-community.com/press_releases/amazon-studios-secures-first-of-its-kind-rights-to-warhammer-40000-with-henry-cavill-set-to-star-and-executive-produce-global-franchise/

I return to the 10th edition reveal of Ultras vs Nids being the perfect setting to squeeze what is an otherwise unapologetic grimdark into Amazon's "socially responsible" expectation for their investment, by uniting humanity for a common cause under a socially responsible banner of everyone wins. While news coverage of UFO's and Alien Motherships hanging out in our solar system make headlines prior to national elections.

tauist wrote:My 2 cents on the trailer:

GW's CGI-fu seems to have improved slowly but steadily. However, the human faces were still kind of naff and I felt the ligthing of the scenes was too dark and the action too visually hard to follow most of the time. Watch the clip with the audio muted and you'll see what I mean

In terms of the storytelling content, it felt like a mediocre Hollywood movie trailer. Overly bombastic and utterly void of substance. But then again, isn't this stuff meant for the same audience who loves tranformers movies et al?

I saw nothing but pretense of depth

YMMV as usual

"40K is a satire" ... of Rogue Trader. No more, no less. They're trolling themselves basically. Peak irony/dad hipsterism or capitalism? I don't really GAF enough to find out

Whatever it is, I don't think we'd have much to discuss, but our personal fluff if it weren't capitalism. But maybe that's what you mean like a multi-generational community driven narrative? I think that exists too though right?

One thing on the CGI I get you on the faces, however when you speak of the action being hard to follow consider where action has been with cinema in general, with zoom/cut/skip sequences where you can't tell just WTF is going on until it's over.

I think allowing breaks where we get to watch the camera pan out at distance rather keep us constantly placed at the center of the action whipping to and fro like a chicken with its head cut off is much better way to go.

I personally feel this doesn't really have that so it is progress in my book. That said I know someone who just can't take any spinning or whirling, running with the camera/flashy lights, so no further explanation required, but I would think most action flix would be a drag then, but I am open to checking out some good examples of what you like if you have any?

There was a little of that with the running of the Nids, a few skips here and there, and Apothecary Marine (which was classic horror), but I think it was well done and I got a few Pitch Black and Alien flash backs.

catbarf wrote:

...It's a Saturday morning cartoon setting for a toy soldier tabletop game. The overwhelming majority of Black Library novels are pulpy action schlock.

If someone's reading 40K fiction and thinks they're partaking in sophisticated satire of the human condition, they need to get out more.

If they really showed what was in 40K it wouldn't be on Saturday mornings and they wouldn't be doing community out reach at the grade schools if the Puritans had an idea (think the Satanic Panic of the '80s with Dungeon & Dragons.)

That said where does anyone get their ethics from anymore? Unless you're religiously instructed or raised by philosophers, no one's reading folk tales. The last few generations were raised by TV and the web so naturally our ethics have been outsourced to those producing on these mediums in the form of sitcoms and cartoons with mores. And I think there's plenty of bad examples of what not to do/be like in 40k.

Otherwise sure maybe not sophisticated, but simplicity makes it accessible. Granted there's a lot of gratuitous pulp filler there attempting to appeal to our base triggers because that's what sells today. The fluff has become something of a counter to that.

Tyel wrote:Yeah. Maybe its too be cynical, but I feel this is just a reaction to all the fans going the cinematics for 8th and 9th were too "Imperium triumphalist."

8th especially - "It is the traitors that should fear us! Possession of this galaxy is Mankind's birthright. The stars are ours for the taking!"

So this is very much "The Imperium and Humanity is screwed."

Its a cool video but I don't really feel much beyond that. It also kind of cheats by doing the whole "big fight in darkness so you can't see the detail" - but that's pretty standard stuff.

Exactly, and as I mentioned people are already talking about this relating it to IRL examples for better or for worse.

AtoMaki wrote:

Tyel wrote:
So this is very much "The Imperium and Humanity is screwed."

Yeah, and it is off-putting because it should be "The Imperium is going strong, and (because of that) Humanity is screwed."

Agreed again, that's exactly the point being made by GW. I've just been following some of the controversies surrounding criticism of gatekeepers whether justifiable or not.

Listen through the trailer again, nearing the end Guilliman says "Belief will not save us", "Lies will not protect us"

Truth!

Ok is it sad we have to take this lesson from 40k? or that we have to learn it at all?

 MalusCalibur wrote:

 Adeptekon wrote:

Guff

I could comment further on how ridiculous what you're saying is, but at this point I can only assume you're trolling; because to genuinely take any life lessons from 40k at all, much less something as shallow as this trailer, is frankly insane.

catbarf wrote:...It's a Saturday morning cartoon setting for a toy soldier tabletop game. The overwhelming majority of Black Library novels are pulpy action schlock.

If someone's reading 40K fiction and thinks they're partaking in sophisticated satire of the human condition, they need to get out more.

I doubt I could put it any better than that.

I appreciate you giving me the benefit of the doubt, for what it's worth from your perspective which is presumably far less cynical on society. I assure you there's an actual discussion being had. If I may make an assumption, you don't sound much the post-modernist type or interested entertaining the ideas here, which is perfectly alright. However when it comes to Guilliman in this trailer I think he very well may be just one that can.

 AtoMaki wrote:

 Adeptekon wrote:

Agreed again, that's exactly the point being made by GW.

No, GW's point is that the Imperium is failing (despite what its propaganda is saying) and with it, Humanity is failing too. And the Big Hero is really SAD about it, but that's a defining narrative in Nobledark settings. It wouldn't stick out from, say, Lord of the Rings or Halo, but Warhammer 40k? Eeeeehhh...

Not sure were we got off track? I reply, you reply, I agree, you say no? Tell me something new?

Sim-Life wrote:

 tauist wrote:
I felt the ligthing of the scenes was too dark

This is deliberate in order to hide shortcuts and lack of detail and such to make it less work for the animators.

Nothing wrong with a daytime setting, but beyond the mood factor, I think it's arguable that Iron Within was much better animation, and much darker than this, but it's also an example of what I dislike during battle sequences. Super dark, cut and skip action, screen wobbling all over the place in attempt to place you in the mix, feels more like someone with unsteady hands trying to get this all on cam. I didn't really get too much of that feeling in this trailer.

warhead01 wrote:The only thing of value I found in this trailer was the announcement of 10th edition. The cgi was very nice an all sure hurray for GW's cgi improvements?
No meaning, no morals, no analogies, nothing. But I am very happy that the OP seems to have fond the answer to the meaning of life from a game trailer.

Warhammer 40,000 SSDD setting with new rules!

Hey at least you're not offended by a few musings over a fantasy game. I'll think twice before do something like this again in the face of jaded gnosticism.

 warhead01 wrote:

 Adeptekon wrote:

warhead01 wrote:The only thing of value I found in this trailer was the announcement of 10th edition. The cgi was very nice an all sure hurray for GW's cgi improvements?
No meaning, no morals, no analogies, nothing. But I am very happy that the OP seems to have fond the answer to the meaning of life from a game trailer.

Warhammer 40,000 SSDD setting with new rules!

Hey at least you're not offended by a few musings over a fantasy game. I'll think twice before do something like this again in the face of jaded gnosticism.

Do what ever makes you happy. I'm actually very disconnected from the vast majority of media people like to consume so I was wondering if what you were seeing in this trailer was something int he zeitgeist I wouldn't even know about or maybe news related in irl. But was not able to discern what it was you found so meaningful.
and while I see little value in the trailer my comment was meant to be just a little humorous regarding your opening post and musings.

Thought for the day - Be just and fear not.

All good mate, yeah (it was in general) some things I had seen floating around the web, reddit, new articles, youtube comments, etc, but also something that struck me when I compared the dialog of this one to older trailers that just seem to be incredibly flat on dialog, all action (Matrix style flying through the air swiping at stuff) and nothing for thought other than the usual "the mutant, the heretic" blah blah blah.

Regardless of any IRL stuff which we probably shouldn't get into at this rate, I'd be surprised if GW wasn't trying to make something of it for marketing purposes. I think for better or for worse, 40k could be on the precipice of something big with Amazon studios getting involved.

Also it's not my intent to challenge anyone's old school wisdom, but as noted things sure seem to be forever influx.

JohnnyHell wrote:The main point was the voice over was a lie.

He preaches victory while the Imperium loses ground on all sides.

Pious and blindly proud in the face of overwhelming odds.

Precisely in that the preachers, officials, and even he himself carries out the lie as a commander.

I took it like a double confession.

Someone caught him griping to himself over pretty much the same things a couple weeks earlier:

Mr. Burning wrote:

 Adeptekon wrote:

 warhead01 wrote:

 Adeptekon wrote:

warhead01 wrote:The only thing of value I found in this trailer was the announcement of 10th edition. The cgi was very nice an all sure hurray for GW's cgi improvements?
No meaning, no morals, no analogies, nothing. But I am very happy that the OP seems to have fond the answer to the meaning of life from a game trailer.

Warhammer 40,000 SSDD setting with new rules!

Hey at least you're not offended by a few musings over a fantasy game. I'll think twice before do something like this again in the face of jaded gnosticism.

Do what ever makes you happy. I'm actually very disconnected from the vast majority of media people like to consume so I was wondering if what you were seeing in this trailer was something int he zeitgeist I wouldn't even know about or maybe news related in irl. But was not able to discern what it was you found so meaningful.
and while I see little value in the trailer my comment was meant to be just a little humorous regarding your opening post and musings.

Thought for the day - Be just and fear not.

All good mate, yeah (it was in general) some things I had seen floating around the web, reddit, new articles, youtube comments, etc, but also something that struck me when I compared the dialog of this one to older trailers that just seem to be incredibly flat on dialog, all action (Matrix style flying through the air swiping at stuff) and nothing for thought other than the usual "the mutant, the heretic" blah blah blah.

Regardless of any IRL stuff which we probably shouldn't get into at this rate, I'd be surprised if GW wasn't trying to make something of it for marketing purposes. I think for better or for worse, 40k could be on the precipice of something big with Amazon studios getting involved.

Also it's not my intent to challenge anyone's old school wisdom, but as noted things sure seem to be forever influx.

GW is not using this trailer to market anything Amazon produces using the rights to 40k that they have obtained.


GW are indeed using the trailer to market something...10th ed!

Amazon is a cashcow GW will exploit. GW is already going hard with a cease and desist campaign on Amazon against copycats which is part of their greater on going campaign over fan derivative (works which I'm sure you know about).

Once the path is clear, and GW owns all the animators, Amazon makes the movie/tv series, which then catapults GW to new heights. They hope 10th edition will be not only snatched up by everyone to follow, but will be far more digestible to the broader public once people's interests are piqued, and they learn there's neat/cool game behind it all. Therefore moar minis, moar books, more art, action figures, moar money.

They're not thinking like fans, they're thinking like a business. When you think like a business you need to look at all avenues that generate potential income or it doesn't make sense, because it doesn't make dollars if you don't.

This is my prediction.