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For tenth edition the combi-weapons were consolidated into the new profile of:

24", A 1, S 4, AP 0, D1 with ANTI-INFANTRY 4+, DEVASTATING WOUNDS, RAPID FIRE 1

However, today I was looking through the Leviathan instruction book and I noticed something weird.

In the part of the book that gives rules for all the units in the box the combi-weapons each have a different profile.

The combi-flamer used by the lieutenant has the profile of:

24", A 2, S 4, AP -1, D1 with ANTI-INFANTRY 4+, DEVASTATING WOUNDS, IGNORES COVER

The combi-melta used by the Sternguard sergeant is:

24", A 2, S 4, AP -1, D1 with ANTI-VECHILE 4+, DEVASTATING WOUNDS, MELTA 2

The combi-plasma used by the Sternguard model is:

24", A 2, S 4, AP -1, D1 with ANTI-MONSTER 4+, DEVASTATING WOUNDS, HAZARDOUS

Also each one has a better BS by 1 for each for some reason.

Do you think these are the alpha rules or the rules for these weapons in the future codex?

Others have mentioned it - some believe that's going to be the post codex statline, but many believe that Leviathan was just printed before the new statline was finalized. I tend to lean into the latter as codexes are still a trickle roll out meaning some will be using one profile, the rest will be using the other.

Yep, I mentioned that in a couple of other threads.

I like that it gives each combi-weapon a niche rather than just squishing them all into one mono-profile that doesn't really capture what any of them do. I'd probably give the Combi-Flamer an extra shot, but other than that the options presented here work really well.

I'd even go so far as to say that all Melta weapons should have Anti-Vehicle and all Plasma Anti-Monster. Gives Plasma a role beyond "generally better than the rest, so always taken".

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Yep, I mentioned that in a couple of other threads.

I like that it gives each combi-weapon a niche rather than just squishing them all into one mono-profile that doesn't really capture what any of them do. I'd probably give the Combi-Flamer an extra shot, but other than that the options presented here work really well.

I'd even go so far as to say that all Melta weapons should have Anti-Vehicle and all Plasma Anti-Monster. Gives Plasma a role beyond "generally better than the rest, so always taken".

Makes me wonder that a combi-grav would do since grav weapons already have Anti-vehicle 2+.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Yep, I mentioned that in a couple of other threads.

I like that it gives each combi-weapon a niche rather than just squishing them all into one mono-profile that doesn't really capture what any of them do. I'd probably give the Combi-Flamer an extra shot, but other than that the options presented here work really well.

I'd even go so far as to say that all Melta weapons should have Anti-Vehicle and all Plasma Anti-Monster. Gives Plasma a role beyond "generally better than the rest, so always taken".

I like Flamer as Anti-Infantry mostly. I start to sit on the fence when it starts hitting TEQ, Immortals, Destroyers (The more heavily armored/insulated stuff) etc. But mostly I like it as Anti-Infantry.

I'd move MONSTER CHARACTERs to a different Keyword to preserve their balance and put Grav and Plasma on ANTI-MONSTER.

I'd put Melta on ANTI-VEHICLE.

I'd put ANTI-CHARACTER on Sniper rifles.

I'd give most of the characters Lone Operative, even if they have Leader.

I'd change PRECISION to pick Leaders out (as it does now) and ignore LONE OPERATIVE (and the bespoke Super Stealth abilities that mimic it- because this should have been a USR) like they used to ignore LOOK OUT SIR. Right now LONE OPERATIVE has no "counter".

My suspicion is that they decided to condense down Combi-weapons later in the design process, possibly when they made the controversial decision to go with flat points for units.

The current combi-weapon is side-grade to the Storm Bolter for Terminator models. It is probably somewhere in the neighborhood of a side-grade for Sternguard Veterans over their Sternguard bolt rifles. So it is only when you have the choice of a bolter of Combi-weapon that it is a straight upgrade, which would be no less true for the individually stated combi-weapons.

I will added that Anti-Vehicle 4+, Devastating Wounds, Melta 2 is a dirty set of weapon rules. All day, every day, twice on Sunday good.

 alextroy wrote:
somewhere in the neighborhood of a side-grade for Sternguard Veterans over their Sternguard bolt rifles.

It's legit not even close.

You're right, because I didn't notice that Sternguard Bolt Rifles are Rapid Fire 1

That is really strange given the most Bolt Rifles are not Rapid Fire. I think somebody made a mistake here.

 alextroy wrote:
You're right, because I didn't notice that Sternguard Bolt Rifles are Rapid Fire 1

It's not just that. The Sternguard Bolt Rifle has all the weapon rules ON TOP of Devastating Wounds itself. The targets that the Combi-Weapon is better against is so minimal that switching would be ludicrous.

If you could get as many attacks with a Combi-Weapon as the Sternguard Bolt Rifle, the Anti-Infantry would be very nice for getting Mortal Wounds on Infantry Targets. However, the SG BR always one attack more than the Combi-Weapon and is more accurate before you even factor in the ability for it to benefit from Heavy. It's just silly.

 alextroy wrote:
You're right, because I didn't notice that Sternguard Bolt Rifles are Rapid Fire 1

That is really strange given the most Bolt Rifles are not Rapid Fire. I think somebody made a mistake here.

It may have been a mistake (haven't really done the math as I have so much painting ahead of new Sternguard in my project table queue), but I also think it was intentional not accidental. Most of these new rules are a nostalgia laden fan service to previous editions - like new Star Wars movies pulling out the "I have a bad feeling about this." line.

Looks more to me like they started with one weapon and then kept on adding things because of changes in design.

It's a Special Ammo Boltgun so Devastating Wounds, Rapid Fire 1, A 1.
Space Marines have 2 attacks with Boltguns? OK, it is Devastating Wounds, Rapid Fire 1, A 2.
Sternguard are now Primaris and use Bolt Rifles? OK, it is Assault, Devastating Wounds, Heavy, Rapid Fire 1, A 2.

Player base: Bolt Rifles aren't Rapid Fire anymore.
GW: We'll fix that in the errata.