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So I'm assuming mistakes weren't made here and it was intentional not to include the detachment rules and stratagems with the new datacards. Just warning everybody they aren't there, which is extremely frustrating as now I have to lug my codex around as well as my cards... /sigh.

that, to quite a large level, negates the utility of the cards - the benefit being to specifically not have to lug the book about and just take the cards, or even just the subset you plan on using

it also means a 3d party or home brew product is, once again, more useful

I was wondering what they were gonna do to make codex purchases useful. At first I thought it would be to the only way to get the codex release cards. It is worth mentioning that the stated goal of the cards, IIRC, was to make it so you weren’t constantly page flipping for all the info. This would still do that… just not how we actually wanted it.

TreeStewges wrote:
I was wondering what they were gonna do to make codex purchases useful. At first I thought it would be to the only way to get the codex release cards. It is worth mentioning that the stated goal of the cards, IIRC, was to make it so you weren’t constantly page flipping for all the info. This would still do that… just not how we actually wanted it.

make the card deck comprehensive

then sell it as a two part bundle with the codex.. now its not cannibalising sales, and is more useful as a card deck

incidentally also stick the strategems on individual cards

I see the use of the word “lug”. And I fear it’s doing some, aha, heavy lifting here. Very heavy lifting.

In the worst days, having to carry around your Codex, prints or a device to show FAQs, plus various other and sundry books that might have a sneaky Stratagem or two, or rules clarifications inexplicably not available elsewhere.

Carrying your Codex (the genuine Bare Minimum, going back to 2nd Ed) and *shock horror* a pack of oversized cards you don’t strictly need when you have your Codex is…..nothing. At all.

Yes this post is assuming the current situation keeps on. We may need to pack further books in future, who truly knows right now.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I see the use of the word “lug”. And I fear it’s doing some, aha, heavy lifting here. Very heavy lifting.

In the worst days, having to carry around your Codex, prints or a device to show FAQs, plus various other and sundry books that might have a sneaky Stratagem or two, or rules clarifications inexplicably not available elsewhere.

Carrying your Codex (the genuine Bare Minimum, going back to 2nd Ed) and *shock horror* a pack of oversized cards you don’t strictly need when you have your Codex is…..nothing. At all.

Yes this post is assuming the current situation keeps on. We may need to pack further books in future, who truly knows right now.

I agree that it's less stuff to carry around now than it was but the point is if they had included 6 more cards, double sided with detachment rules on one side and strats for said detachment on the other you wouldn't need the codex at all. There's essentially no point to buying the cards as you'll still need the codex for your detachment rules and all the info on the cards is in the codex. As other have pointed out this was most likely done to force people to buy codices. Typical scummy GW business model.
Ironically, I personally would have bought both the codex and the cards regardless as I enjoy the lore and artwork included with the codices that isn't included with the data cards. It just irks me that I have to bring an extra thing with me for no reason other than greed.

thing is, its less now but in say six months, when some new campaign book comes out with half a page of new strategems you want, and some other expansion that has a new datacard etc

how long does it stay a reasonably small rulebook, a codex and a ring binder with the updates..

how long before someone at GW once again eyes a copy of the complete Star Fleet Battles rules and things "pft, amateur!" and once more you are back to needing two rules grots to drag the books around behind you?

I don't object to a codex with nice artwork (though artwork, not photos of studio models with a slightly different background), some lore stuff, short story pages, maps etc

I just don't want to have to drag it behind me and again have the leopardmobile struggle with hills and have to leave Mrs L at home just to make space for it all

Ghom wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I see the use of the word “lug”. And I fear it’s doing some, aha, heavy lifting here. Very heavy lifting.

In the worst days, having to carry around your Codex, prints or a device to show FAQs, plus various other and sundry books that might have a sneaky Stratagem or two, or rules clarifications inexplicably not available elsewhere.

Carrying your Codex (the genuine Bare Minimum, going back to 2nd Ed) and *shock horror* a pack of oversized cards you don’t strictly need when you have your Codex is…..nothing. At all.

Yes this post is assuming the current situation keeps on. We may need to pack further books in future, who truly knows right now.

I agree that it's less stuff to carry around now than it was but the point is if they had included 6 more cards, double sided with detachment rules on one side and strats for said detachment on the other you wouldn't need the codex at all. There's essentially no point to buying the cards as you'll still need the codex for your detachment rules and all the info on the cards is in the codex. As other have pointed out this was most likely done to force people to buy codices. Typical scummy GW business model.
Ironically, I personally would have bought both the codex and the cards regardless as I enjoy the lore and artwork included with the codices that isn't included with the data cards. It just irks me that I have to bring an extra thing with me for no reason other than greed.

I’m afraid that’s just not how capitalism works.

Do keep in mind GW aren’t a charity

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

Ghom wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I see the use of the word “lug”. And I fear it’s doing some, aha, heavy lifting here. Very heavy lifting.

In the worst days, having to carry around your Codex, prints or a device to show FAQs, plus various other and sundry books that might have a sneaky Stratagem or two, or rules clarifications inexplicably not available elsewhere.

Carrying your Codex (the genuine Bare Minimum, going back to 2nd Ed) and *shock horror* a pack of oversized cards you don’t strictly need when you have your Codex is…..nothing. At all.

Yes this post is assuming the current situation keeps on. We may need to pack further books in future, who truly knows right now.

I agree that it's less stuff to carry around now than it was but the point is if they had included 6 more cards, double sided with detachment rules on one side and strats for said detachment on the other you wouldn't need the codex at all. There's essentially no point to buying the cards as you'll still need the codex for your detachment rules and all the info on the cards is in the codex. As other have pointed out this was most likely done to force people to buy codices. Typical scummy GW business model.
Ironically, I personally would have bought both the codex and the cards regardless as I enjoy the lore and artwork included with the codices that isn't included with the data cards. It just irks me that I have to bring an extra thing with me for no reason other than greed.

I’m afraid that’s just not how capitalism works.

Do keep in mind GW aren’t a charity

I don't have any issues with capitalism. I'm a big fan of it. That does not mean that companies can't engage in scummy practices.

Can't you just like... scan the pages you want? boom problem solved.

Ghom wrote:
So I'm assuming mistakes weren't made here and it was intentional not to include the detachment rules and stratagems with the new datacards. Just warning everybody they aren't there, which is extremely frustrating as now I have to lug my codex around as well as my cards... /sigh.

I read the product content for both the "old" data card packs and the "new" tyranid data card pack.

The "old" ones ( current for non nid armies ) flat out advertise they have detachment rules, stratagems, etc...

The new Tyranid one doesn't advertise those at all, and only include basic rules for synapse, shadow in the warp and additional rules for combat patrol.

Next time, read the packaging. Be more diligent before when purchasing. Protect yourself.

All that said, I do agree that the value of the new tyranid data card pack isn't something I would spend money on at all. No thank you.

Ghom wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I see the use of the word “lug”. And I fear it’s doing some, aha, heavy lifting here. Very heavy lifting.

In the worst days, having to carry around your Codex, prints or a device to show FAQs, plus various other and sundry books that might have a sneaky Stratagem or two, or rules clarifications inexplicably not available elsewhere.

Carrying your Codex (the genuine Bare Minimum, going back to 2nd Ed) and *shock horror* a pack of oversized cards you don’t strictly need when you have your Codex is…..nothing. At all.

Yes this post is assuming the current situation keeps on. We may need to pack further books in future, who truly knows right now.

I agree that it's less stuff to carry around now than it was but the point is if they had included 6 more cards, double sided with detachment rules on one side and strats for said detachment on the other you wouldn't need the codex at all. There's essentially no point to buying the cards as you'll still need the codex for your detachment rules and all the info on the cards is in the codex. As other have pointed out this was most likely done to force people to buy codices. Typical scummy GW business model.
Ironically, I personally would have bought both the codex and the cards regardless as I enjoy the lore and artwork included with the codices that isn't included with the data cards. It just irks me that I have to bring an extra thing with me for no reason other than greed.

If you had all that in the cards, why would you need to buy the codex? Perhaps the better solution was pack the cards with the codex so if you had one you had the other - but then someone could sell the other on Ebay as half the set, so on and so on...

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I see the use of the word “lug”. And I fear it’s doing some, aha, heavy lifting here. Very heavy lifting.

In the worst days, having to carry around your Codex, prints or a device to show FAQs, plus various other and sundry books that might have a sneaky Stratagem or two, or rules clarifications inexplicably not available elsewhere.

Carrying your Codex (the genuine Bare Minimum, going back to 2nd Ed) and *shock horror* a pack of oversized cards you don’t strictly need when you have your Codex is…..nothing. At all.

Yes this post is assuming the current situation keeps on. We may need to pack further books in future, who truly knows right now.

Counterpoint: old codexes and most reference materials were fewer pages, and perhaps more importantly, paperback. They were also cheaper. So usually it was a lighter, cheaper gaming load in the good days. (Pre 5th)

For 2nd ed, probably all three Rulebook+Wargear Book+Codex Imperialis were altogether about the same thickness as just the 9th ed Space Marine codex.

I remember an articles on the community site that said that the idea was that the cards would have all the info about the units while all the info about the detachment would be on a two page spread in the book so you could leave the book open on those two pages and not have to flip through the book to find info on the units.

Ghom wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I see the use of the word “lug”. And I fear it’s doing some, aha, heavy lifting here. Very heavy lifting.

In the worst days, having to carry around your Codex, prints or a device to show FAQs, plus various other and sundry books that might have a sneaky Stratagem or two, or rules clarifications inexplicably not available elsewhere.

Carrying your Codex (the genuine Bare Minimum, going back to 2nd Ed) and *shock horror* a pack of oversized cards you don’t strictly need when you have your Codex is…..nothing. At all.

Yes this post is assuming the current situation keeps on. We may need to pack further books in future, who truly knows right now.

I agree that it's less stuff to carry around now than it was but the point is if they had included 6 more cards, double sided with detachment rules on one side and strats for said detachment on the other you wouldn't need the codex at all. There's essentially no point to buying the cards as you'll still need the codex for your detachment rules and all the info on the cards is in the codex. As other have pointed out this was most likely done to force people to buy codices. Typical scummy GW business model.
Ironically, I personally would have bought both the codex and the cards regardless as I enjoy the lore and artwork included with the codices that isn't included with the data cards. It just irks me that I have to bring an extra thing with me for no reason other than greed.

More like 18 cards. Index had 3 cards after all.

But yea still not too much.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I see the use of the word “lug”. And I fear it’s doing some, aha, heavy lifting here. Very heavy lifting.

In the worst days, having to carry around your Codex, prints or a device to show FAQs, plus various other and sundry books that might have a sneaky Stratagem or two, or rules clarifications inexplicably not available elsewhere.

Carrying your Codex (the genuine Bare Minimum, going back to 2nd Ed) and *shock horror* a pack of oversized cards you don’t strictly need when you have your Codex is…..nothing. At all.

Yes this post is assuming the current situation keeps on. We may need to pack further books in future, who truly knows right now.

You're still going to need to carry around FAQs/errata for the codex/cards and the core rules now.

Plus, it would be absurdly naive to think that there isn't going to be a bunch of 'required' supplementary material from various sources added over time...

 KingGarland wrote:
I remember an articles on the community site that said that the idea was that the cards would have all the info about the units while all the info about the detachment would be on a two page spread in the book so you could leave the book open on those two pages and not have to flip through the book to find info on the units.

that could be good if:

- the books were spiral bound such that they actually would stay open on those pages without needing weights and/or damaging the books

&

- you had the space to leave your book (and your opponents book) open, essentially a space 18"-24" at the end of the table for such things so they can easily be seen - having to shove them under the table etc doesn't count.

note you also need the pages of the main rulebook with the strategems, space for the various mission card decks etc as well

leopard wrote:
thing is, its less now but in say six months, when some new campaign book comes out with half a page of new strategems you want, and some other expansion that has a new datacard etc

how long does it stay a reasonably small rulebook, a codex and a ring binder with the updates..

how long before someone at GW once again eyes a copy of the complete Star Fleet Battles rules and things "pft, amateur!" and once more you are back to needing two rules grots to drag the books around behind you?

I don't object to a codex with nice artwork (though artwork, not photos of studio models with a slightly different background), some lore stuff, short story pages, maps etc

I just don't want to have to drag it behind me and again have the leopardmobile struggle with hills and have to leave Mrs L at home just to make space for it all

We would be so lucky to have GW take inspiration from the SFB rulebook. Thicker than a phonebook? Yes. The best cross-indexed, expandable, quick to navigate and reference rulebook ever? Also yes.

It would have been nice to have everything on the cards. If people are going to spring for the extra game aids, they should be worth it. (I’m not one of those people, I spend enough on core rules and codexes). Right now I’ve got 2 Combat Patrols packed in my KR case, and the army/unit rules are printed out and just slipped into each of the boxes housing that army. Very portable, very convenient. Index cards should get you that, but now you need to also scan/print the detachment rules or have to lug the codex for just those pages. Why stop at a job 90% done? (cynical answer, so you still buy the codex) The cards save you flipping around the book/app, but that’s it. Granted, that is value added, but worth the price?

3rd edition D&D is what got me into scanning/printing for that kind of stuff. Just for one character you would need a handful of books, often for one feat/spell/magic item in each. Game bag was starting to hurt my shoulder. GW has come close to this in the past, where you would need your core codex, formation rules, new units/rules from campaign books, etc. But for required splatbooks to lug around, not the king of the hill.

the main thing with SFB in that book is how little pointless text there is, its all (except a page in the "R" section and some bits of the ship descriptions) actually rules. no fluffier bits that contradict the actual rules leading to confusion

its an engineering document (which is fitting given it was written by engineers)

back OT, the solution is basically making your own reference cards from the codex, and updating them as required - which can also include appropriate bits from the core rulebook (I find sticking a book & page reference adjacent in a margin helps too)

works nicely for strategem cards too as you can keep one to hand if you plan to use it as a reminder

a turn sequence card is also good

 Insectum7 wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I see the use of the word “lug”. And I fear it’s doing some, aha, heavy lifting here. Very heavy lifting.

In the worst days, having to carry around your Codex, prints or a device to show FAQs, plus various other and sundry books that might have a sneaky Stratagem or two, or rules clarifications inexplicably not available elsewhere.

Carrying your Codex (the genuine Bare Minimum, going back to 2nd Ed) and *shock horror* a pack of oversized cards you don’t strictly need when you have your Codex is…..nothing. At all.

Yes this post is assuming the current situation keeps on. We may need to pack further books in future, who truly knows right now.

Counterpoint: old codexes and most reference materials were fewer pages, and perhaps more importantly, paperback. They were also cheaper. So usually it was a lighter, cheaper gaming load in the good days. (Pre 5th)

For 2nd ed, probably all three Rulebook+Wargear Book+Codex Imperialis were altogether about the same thickness as just the 9th ed Space Marine codex.

Counter counter? Hardback doesn’t add that much weight. 3rd Ed was anomalous for its super low “who needs background” page count. And, hardbacks tend to have much better binding, and as such don’t deteriorate as quickly, and are naturally hard to mangle.

^"Hard to mangle" isn't really an issue if the edition is only going to last 3 years. And honestly the only truly mangled book I have is the hardback RT book. The softcover one is in better shape!

I'll take paperback any day, thank you.

 Insectum7 wrote:
^"Hard to mangle" isn't really an issue if the edition is only going to last 3 years. And honestly the only truly mangled book I have is the hardback RT book. The softcover one is in better shape!

I'll take paperback any day, thank you.

Agree with this.

Hardbacks are nice long term. Look great on the shelf, take a beating better. But with a 3 year cycle? I’d rather they charged less and delivered the same content in a format that is slimmer, easier to transport, and will hold up as long as it needs to. I’d take those savings and buy more minis. No net-loss to GW. Plus it would lower a barrier of entry into the game.

My RT hardcover is also the only book in my collection that has issues. Even my softback WHFB 5th edition stuff, which I played a LOT harder then anything 40k related is still in great shape.

Agreed on the softback front.

I have no interest in paying a substantially higher price just for some better protection for reprinted fluff and soon-to-be-outdated rules.

I would add, too, that the books used to contain a lot of nice art.

The hardback books, meanwhile, are a just marketing catalogue full of photos. You know, the sort of thing companies give away for free to show off their range.

Softcover books are easier to flip through...

I was surprised at how fething thin the new 'Nid 'Dex is. Whatever happened to the fluff sections that described each creature. Now we're stuck with a gakky paragraph on a datacard and that's about it.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Softcover books are easier to flip through...

I was surprised at how fething thin the new 'Nid 'Dex is. Whatever happened to the fluff sections that described each creature. Now we're stuck with a gakky paragraph on a datacard and that's about it.

softback is easier to cut the binding off as well if desired

and they have scrapped the fluff sections???

guess it fits now, you are not meant to customise them, you are meant to paint them in the approved style only, build with the approved load out.

GW are trying to make it a tabletop video game, you get what they tell you, the model its just its stats, imagination is not required, or desired, why won't you just paint them the way you are supposed to...

the old artwork beats a photo of a pre-production model painted in a way they refuse to generally explain

how have GW gone from "Waaargh the Orks!" which was 100% fluff to what we have now

leopard wrote:

how have GW gone from "Waaargh the Orks!" which was 100% fluff to what we have now

Coorperatism

 Insectum7 wrote:

leopard wrote:

how have GW gone from "Waaargh the Orks!" which was 100% fluff to what we have now

Coorperatism

ah yes, my bad, sorry

as you were

*cries*

^It is what it is. :shrug:

There’s NO fluff section?
What. The. Hell.

I’m more of a rules guy, but I got into the hobby first because of the lore, and it’s still fun.

 Insectum7 wrote:
^It is what it is. :shrug:

I'm still painting things in unofficial colours and they can't stop me

hang on, theres a knock at the door..