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Had anybody mathhammered power fists vs thunder hammers?

Usually I would assume hitting on 2+ vs 3+ is quite big. As the 6 to wound comes up so rarely. How ever, with T often beeing >8 you are often wounding in 5 and 6 anyway. Then bypassing the save is quite good.

Lastly how often do you fight T>8 and how often does AP come into it?

 Niiai wrote:
Had anybody mathhammered power fists vs thunder hammers?

Usually I would assume hitting on 2+ vs 3+ is quite big. As the 6 to wound comes up so rarely. How ever, with T often beeing >8 you are often wounding in 5 and 6 anyway. Then bypassing the save is quite good.

Lastly how often do you fight T>8 and how often does AP come into it?

2+ to 3+ is actually the smallest change on the die.
5+ to 6+ cuts damage in half. 2+ to 3+ cuts damage by 20%.

With 36 attacks, hitting on a 2+ (Fist) and 3+ (Hammer), against a T9 or higher 2+ save target...



Fist
30 hits
10 wounds
5 failed saves
10 damage, or .28 damage per attack

Hammer
24 hits
4 wounds, 4 DevWounds
2 failed saves, 4 DevWounds
12 damage. .33 damage per attack

If save is changed to 3+, it changes to .37 (Fist) and .37 (Hammer).

This post has been updated-originally I had Fists at AP-3

Thanks.

I also asume fists rise through the roof if the T is 8 or lover.

Hammers increase slightly if the target is oath of momened.

So the argument now is if you have a model with a thunder hammer do you say its a thunder hammer or a thunder fist.

 Corennus wrote:
So the argument now is if you have a model with a thunder hammer do you say its a thunder hammer or a thunder fist.

Rule of cool: Thunder Hammer always wins.

The vast majority of games I play are against vehicles spam with T10+ so in my experience Thunder Hammer all the way. Dev Wounds are a great guarantee against bouncing off of Armour of Contempt.

 Gibblets wrote:
The vast majority of games I play are against vehicles spam with T10+ so in my experience Thunder Hammer all the way. Dev Wounds are a great guarantee against bouncing off of Armour of Contempt.

Against T9+ 2+ armor with AP reduced by one…



.18 damage per Fist attack
.30 damage per Hammer attack

This post has been updated-originally it had Fists as AP-3

Exactly^ and 50% of the wounds by the hammers are mortals so your opponents hot rolling can't stop those.

This makes mekler terminators va assault terminators much closer to damage output in melee.

Also, it puts the space wolf terminators slightly less cool. The gimmick there was 4 melee terminators and on missile launcher one

 Niiai wrote:
This makes mekler terminators va assault terminators much closer to damage output in melee.

Also, it puts the space wolf terminators slightly less cool. The gimmick there was 4 melee terminators and on missile launcher one

TH might be close to Fists, but there is still the 2xLC build to consider for assault terminators.

2 more attacks each, and hitting on 3+ not 4+. S5 vs 8, but twin linked for the re-roll. Same AP, but dam 1 vs 2.

Question is how that maths out. Anything with a single wound should be a no-brainer for the claws, but how do they do compared to MEQ or tougher?

 Nevelon wrote:


TH might be close to Fists, but there is still the 2xLC build to consider for assault terminators.

2 more attacks each, and hitting on 3+ not 4+. S5 vs 8, but twin linked for the re-roll. Same AP, but dam 1 vs 2.

Question is how that maths out. Anything with a single wound should be a no-brainer for the claws, but how do they do compared to MEQ or tougher?

TH/SS Terminators have +1 Wound.
With that in mind, L.Claws are dead on arrival imo.

 MinscS2 wrote:

 Nevelon wrote:


TH might be close to Fists, but there is still the 2xLC build to consider for assault terminators.

2 more attacks each, and hitting on 3+ not 4+. S5 vs 8, but twin linked for the re-roll. Same AP, but dam 1 vs 2.

Question is how that maths out. Anything with a single wound should be a no-brainer for the claws, but how do they do compared to MEQ or tougher?

TH/SS Terminators have +1 Wound.
With that in mind, L.Claws are dead on arrival imo.

W3 helps against D1 and D3. D2 kills them the same, as does D4+.

Lightning Claws vs. T10 2+
60 attacks
40 hits
440/36 or 110/9 wounds
55/9 failed saves, or 6.11 damage, or .51 damage per Terminator

As a reminder, against the same targets (and hitting on a 3+ Fists/4+ Hammers) Terminators do .67 with Fists, and .75 with Hammers.

Against T6-9, it increases to 22.22 damage, or 1.85 damage per Terminator.

Against MEQ...

Claws
60 attacks
40 hits
320/9 wounds
640/27 failed saves, or 23.70 damage, or 1.98 damage per Terminator

Fists
36 attacks
24 hits
20 wounds
40/3 failed saves
80/3 damage, or 26.67 damage, or 2.22 damage per Terminator

Hammers
36 attacks
18 hits
12 wounds, 3 DevWounds
8 failed saves plus 3 DevWounds, for 22 damage, or 1.83 damage per Terminator

Important note
My first post in this thread is wrong. I thought Fists were AP-3, but they are not. Updating it now.

So the claws are slightly better then THammers vs. MEQ, but do you give up the spare wound for them. And not as good vs. anything crunchier. And we generally have plenty of options for clearing chaff.

Thanks for the mathhammer.

The power fists once also come with storm bolters. (Or Combi weapons for space wolves.)

So the debate might come down to bolter vs stormshield. And the heavy weapon addition, sergeants forced powersword and special rule.

How are chainfists compared to thunder hammers?

Chainf Fists are a bit better on the T10 2+sv vehicles because of wounding 3+; as long as AOC doesn't get played.

Chainfists vs. a Vehicle
36 attacks
18 hits
12 wounds
4/6/8 failed saves vs. 2+ (AoC)/2+/3+
8/12/16 damage

Damage of .67 per Terminator vs. 2+ AoC
Damage of 1 per Terminator vs. 2+
Damage of 1.33 per Terminator vs. 3+

Performance is cut in half against a T9+ model that is not a vehicle.