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Something has been hugely bugging me.

Multi purpose kits.

There isn't a logical use for these as ..
1: Noone will ever require the bits in the other purpose kit because there will never be anyone putting torsos / legs of which there are generally one' in the bits boxes at public places.

2: It increases production + plastic cost which are obviously landing on the pricing for the consumer, ending up with heaps upon heaps upon heaps of extra bits to store which will never be used and don't get me started on the "cutting it from the sprues" extra work before you can actually get rid of the sprues. (or am I missing a magical step here?) One cannot offer these sprues to other builders because of.. again.. #1.

It would be so much more logical to just sell mini's, especially the larger ones' as build-as-is (so not as "can also be built as") with at most perhaps extra head options, also keeping their joints rounded in such a way that positioning can simply be customized. As 10.000 extra arms = 10.000 extra unused plastics.
I'm not angry or anything but just tired of having to cut out and store endless bits that will never be useful in any situation other than a rare kitbash occasion, not slinking the pile.

-Helveine

p.s. contemplating mailing the aforementioned to GW, y/n? probably done daily by others?

The cost of plastic is actually pretty trivial. Most of the cost is in design/tooling/packaging/distribution. Plus there are issues like shelf space in stores, SKU bloat, time on the production machines, etc.

Even if there is a lot of wasted parts in a duel kit, from an overall company POV, the small waste in unused plastic bits is made up with the overall product line efficency.

 Nevelon wrote:
The cost of plastic is actually pretty trivial. Most of the cost is in design/tooling/packaging/distribution. Plus there are issues like shelf space in stores, SKU bloat, time on the production machines, etc.

Even if there is a lot of wasted parts in a duel kit, from an overall company POV, the small waste in unused plastic bits is made up with the overall product line efficency.

Had not thought of it from a shelve perspective, but its still illogical for the remainder, all that extra plastic could've been used to make every occasion of -out of order- on the webshop.

If the plastic was the limiting factor, maybe.

If instead of a duel kit you had 2 separate ones there would be a lot more overhead. 2 different boxes that would need to be printed/shipped. But also more then twice the production time. Every time they switch the molds in the machine in downtime. They spend a chunk of time swapping things out, running tests, etc. and then rip off as many sprues as they need. Duel kits, even if a little wasteful, prevent this non-productive time on the machine. They don’t need to do all the set up and break down for example for a shooting vs. assault version of the same units. It’s all the same sprue, so they can just bang out a few thousand sprues (or however many) and then move on to the next kit.

look at old GW sprues before the turn of the decade, when they really started stressing sprue efficiency. there were arguably more sprues being made for the same number of options

look at one of the Rhino sprues vs a heresy Rhino sprue. they can fit a lot more on there. once you're producing a full sprue, everything within the frame is negligible. if you can fit more on the sprue, why wouldn't you make the most of it?


i know there are criticisms of modern GW sprue layout, but they fact that they can fit a lot more options on the sprues is definitely a plus. maybe it's just my kitbasher's soul, but i'll never turn down a sprue of extra options that i can reuse for future conversions

 StudentOfEtherium wrote:
look at old GW sprues before the turn of the decade, when they really started stressing sprue efficiency. there were arguably more sprues being made for the same number of options

look at one of the Rhino sprues vs a heresy Rhino sprue. they can fit a lot more on there. once you're producing a full sprue, everything within the frame is negligible. if you can fit more on the sprue, why wouldn't you make the most of it?
-removedimgs-
i know there are criticisms of modern GW sprue layout, but they fact that they can fit a lot more options on the sprues is definitely a plus. maybe it's just my kitbasher's soul, but i'll never turn down a sprue of extra options that i can reuse for future conversions

I'm taking all arguments into account dont get me wrong, but I just find my bits boxes piling over even while focussing mainly on a kitbash army of Orks so there's no limit to my kitbashing needs.. and yet I'm already needing bigger bit boxes after filling 6 big ones.

So, lets talk distribution. I'm a retailer of some sort, I buy product at wholesale (lets say 50% MSRP). If a buy a copy of something and it doesn't sell, I've lost out on that product. If I buy 2 and sell one, I've broken even, if I buy 3 and sell 2 I've started to get profitable.

Each box presents this risk. New product obviously sells better, but if there's fewer products overall it creates a safety net. Maybe you get enough interest to sell out on the main draw of a box, but if you don't, maybe someone who already bought one came back for a second. This is the real reason blind purchase packaging was attractive and hit big box Walmart style stores. There's only one product to stock without needing to know the line to know what to stock more of.

From a manufacturing standpoint, the cost of these things is mostly in the mold itself. Molds are pretty set sizes for the machine they print in and they need to be balanced for the plastic to fill them evenly so for multiple reasons, its important to use up all the space available and the mold itself needs to print a lot of copies to make up for its heavy initial cost. It's dramatically cheaper to produce two units on a single sprue than it is two pay for two molds. Like above, it also spreads out the risk. If one unit flops, maybe the other will be a hit.

Basically, the thing you need to understand is the biggest threat to most businesses is product that doesn't sell. Margins are low enough that a failed product can wipe out the profits of a half dozen successes. Its better to sell 100 copies of one thing than 150 copies of two.

 LunarSol wrote:
So, lets talk distribution. I'm a retailer of some sort, I buy product at wholesale (lets say 50% MSRP). If a buy a copy of something and it doesn't sell, I've lost out on that product. If I buy 2 and sell one, I've broken even, if I buy 3 and sell 2 I've started to get profitable.

Each box presents this risk. New product obviously sells better, but if there's fewer products overall it creates a safety net. Maybe you get enough interest to sell out on the main draw of a box, but if you don't, maybe someone who already bought one came back for a second. This is the real reason blind purchase packaging was attractive and hit big box Walmart style stores. There's only one product to stock without needing to know the line to know what to stock more of.

From a manufacturing standpoint, the cost of these things is mostly in the mold itself. Molds are pretty set sizes for the machine they print in and they need to be balanced for the plastic to fill them evenly so for multiple reasons, its important to use up all the space available and the mold itself needs to print a lot of copies to make up for its heavy initial cost. It's dramatically cheaper to produce two units on a single sprue than it is two pay for two molds. Like above, it also spreads out the risk. If one unit flops, maybe the other will be a hit.

Basically, the thing you need to understand is the biggest threat to most businesses is product that doesn't sell. Margins are low enough that a failed product can wipe out the profits of a half dozen successes. Its better to sell 100 copies of one thing than 150 copies of two.

I believe that's covered by made to order though.

I do think the trend goes more and more into that direction, I see less retail followed by less browsing ending up with made to order. Both because of a bigger awareness concerning resources and (living)climate as much as pollution from plastics.

Perhaps in the days where live stores were the only option it would make sense to its economy but we're (and I don't like it myself) in a different age now..

Made to order is awful for sprue plastic. It works okay for 3D prints and even small batch resin or pewter, but the advantage of sprue plastic is you can set up a machine and let it churn out thousands at a time. Scheduling machine time around demand creates a ton of downtime on the machines, which means either less product or more machines which are incredibly costly (and why its hard to ramp up production to meet sudden demand).

Plastics have pretty incredible minimal sales to break even. Once that's reached they're effectively free, but they're only profitable with volumes that you only reach with large production runs that can go to a reliable sales partner. Distribution and retail provides a pretty solid guarantee that you'll break even because its ultimately paid for before the final customers have their say. Without it, a single product can sink a company remarkably quick.

 LunarSol wrote:
Made to order is awful for sprue plastic. It works okay for 3D prints and even small batch resin or pewter, but the advantage of sprue plastic is you can set up a machine and let it churn out thousands at a time. Scheduling machine time around demand creates a ton of downtime on the machines, which means either less product or more machines which are incredibly costly (and why its hard to ramp up production to meet sudden demand).

Plastics have pretty incredible minimal sales to break even. Once that's reached they're effectively free, but they're only profitable with volumes that you only reach with large production runs that can go to a reliable sales partner. Distribution and retail provides a pretty solid guarantee that you'll break even because its ultimately paid for before the final customers have their say. Without it, a single product can sink a company remarkably quick.

Fair enough, its sad that the consumer suffers from it all..

I really have no idea what to do with all my bits, noone will buy them in bulk, chances are slim anyone actually needing anything from them they don't already have unless to a blind-kitbash which ..again.. doesn't slink the pile.

A friend already asked me why I bother to cut all the pieces out in the first place and not just throw it in the trash with the sprues.. (of which I have already collected enough to fill a BIG moving-box I also cannot seem to get rid of either)

Well.. I payed for it.
eghhh..

(the sprues I'm willing to donate for free to someone, but not send over mail as that will cost -me-)

If it helps you declutter, you also paid for the box it came in and the shrink wrap around that. The build instructions too for that matter. Not everything you pay for is worth keeping.

I really have no idea what to do with all my bits, noone will buy them in bulk, chances are slim anyone actually needing anything from them they don't already have unless to a blind-kitbash which ..again.. doesn't slink the pile.

 LunarSol wrote:
If it helps you declutter, you also paid for the box it came in and the shrink wrap around that. The build instructions too for that matter. Not everything you pay for is worth keeping.

You don't keep the build instructions?

I keep all those heh. (Used to also keep the boxes but eventually just had to throw those away)

As an aside, in the UK, Warhammer stores have restarted recycling sprues, miniatures and (empty) paint pots in store.

https://www.terracycle.com/en-GB/brigades/warhammer-uk#@40.77027075200147:-95.93705549677736zoom:4

It definitely makes bigger kits worth the price tag.

Take the Knight kit as a prime example. Chainglaive, battle cannon, melta cannon, fist, gatling cannon, las-doodad, plus the top mounted weapons and little extra nipple gun.
All of that can easily be interchanged and swapped with a little knowhow and makes the kit much more worth the £105 cost.

 Leopold Helveine wrote:
Something has been hugely bugging me.

Multi purpose kits.

There isn't a logical use for these as ..
1: Noone will ever require the bits in the other purpose kit because there will never be anyone putting torsos / legs of which there are generally one' in the bits boxes at public places.

2: It increases production + plastic cost which are obviously landing on the pricing for the consumer, ending up with heaps upon heaps upon heaps of extra bits to store which will never be used and don't get me started on the "cutting it from the sprues" extra work before you can actually get rid of the sprues. (or am I missing a magical step here?) One cannot offer these sprues to other builders because of.. again.. #1.

It would be so much more logical to just sell mini's, especially the larger ones' as build-as-is (so not as "can also be built as") with at most perhaps extra head options, also keeping their joints rounded in such a way that positioning can simply be customized. As 10.000 extra arms = 10.000 extra unused plastics.
I'm not angry or anything but just tired of having to cut out and store endless bits that will never be useful in any situation other than a rare kitbash occasion, not slinking the pile.

-Helveine

p.s. contemplating mailing the aforementioned to GW, y/n? probably done daily by others?

Amount of plastic spent is irrelevant. Plastic is dirt cheap.

For GW expense comes from # of sprues they have to design.

Can you do what you suggest without increasing # of different sprues they need to design?

If you double the # of sprues they need to design you basically almost double their expenses.

Triple? Almost triple their expense.

You also slow down production the more different sprues you have to cast. Just for example producing 100 box A takes more time than 50 box B and 50 box C. If you can combine B and C to A you get same # of boxes in less time.

And seeing how they can't keep up with demand as is more time required to produce everything last thing GW needs...

If you can’t find someone to buy in bulk, ask around on Facebook. I used to be into that scene, buying quart-sized bags of bits. As a kitbasher, I loved it.

A lot of the time, you will have extra arms and stuff for which you don't have spare bodies, but if all you need are bodies, then maybe 3d printer go brrr.

> I'm not angry or anything but just tired of having to cut out and store endless bits that will never be useful in any situation other than a rare kitbash occasion, not slinking the pile.

This bugs me too, but I think it's more of an issue designing the multi-piece sprue than multi-piece sprues in general. Frex, maybe they could have replaced some bits with a 6th torso and legs so each sprue would make six figures, not five? Dunno. (Warning: Big picture of sprue. )



As someone who backs too many soft plastic single-mold miniatures boardgames, I do notice that multi-piece allows you to build -- and therefore equip -- miniatures that are difficult to make in soft-plastic, although soft-plastic looks to increasingly have multi-piece figures (sure wish they wouldn't pre-assemble b/c of mold lines, though). Multi-piece also allows you to customize your miniatures to your existing collection (eg. build some gunfighters with rifles when your others are pistols). I'm fiddling with Museum Wax so I can swap heads. (Warning: Painted heads.)

 Leopold Helveine wrote:


I really have no idea what to do with all my bits, noone will buy them in bulk, chances are slim anyone actually needing anything from them they don't already have unless to a blind-kitbash which ..again.. doesn't slink the pile.

A friend already asked me why I bother to cut all the pieces out in the first place and not just throw it in the trash with the sprues.. (of which I have already collected enough to fill a BIG moving-box I also cannot seem to get rid of either)

Well.. I payed for it.
eghhh..

(the sprues I'm willing to donate for free to someone, but not send over mail as that will cost -me-)

Except for a handful that can come in handy if making junk terrain or melting into spue goo (for gap filling) - why the hell are you saving all that spue??

About your excess bitz - keep whatever you like/think will be useful later & just donate the rest to you flgs. Let them worry about it.

For ex: I've got a local shop that has such a bitz bin. They charge $1/bit, $2/weapon bit. They have 2 boxes: weapons (all veriaties) & non-weapens.
They don't specifically buy/trade just for bitz. But any they get with armies/models/units they take in trade goes into the bin. And anyone's free to make donations....

 Leopold Helveine wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:
If it helps you declutter, you also paid for the box it came in and the shrink wrap around that. The build instructions too for that matter. Not everything you pay for is worth keeping.

You don't keep the build instructions?

I keep all those heh. (Used to also keep the boxes but eventually just had to throw those away)

I build everything as soon as I get it so I can get rid of the packaging as quickly as possible.

 ced1106 wrote:
> I'm not angry or anything but just tired of having to cut out and store endless bits that will never be useful in any situation other than a rare kitbash occasion, not slinking the pile.

Higher price for box preferable?

That or there would be no alternative build at all.

But increase the expense and slow down production and you can bet it would not be GW that pays for that...It would be you.