Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I couldn’t really find much 40K lore on Beastmen but what I found is that they are abhumans that live in the wilds of human society, shunned away from the large walled off citadels forced to fight for survival.

But what causes this mutation? Especially strange as it appears to occur in multiple places in the human realm. Squats, railings, ogryns etc are generally caused by high or low gravity and other environmental changes which makes sense but why become half goat?

And I’m pretty sure it’s not a chaos thing as wasn’t there Beastmen in the imperial guard at one point?

I think it was chaos, in the old background. The Imperium was a bit less tightly defined and flanderised in those days, so having some expendable chaos tainted cannon fodder was fine.

Pretty sure it's still the case now, but they only fight for chaos forces now?

They are abhuman, not mutants. So you don’t get spontaneous goat babies from normal human parents. But when two goat-people love eachother very much, they might have a kid.

As to why? In-world genetic modification was a thing, and it was probably done for some reasons. Fashion? Durability? Bio-plauge fallout? Who knows.

In RL, 40k has it’s roots as WHFB in space, so a lot of fantasy tropes/minis just swapped their swords for blasters and got sci-fi rules.

They used to serve in the guard back in the RT days. Noted as being more likely to fall to chaos, but also they were ostracized more then other abhumans due to diverse appearances.

Your average imperial citizen might not understand (or care) about the distinction between mutants and abhumans.

 Da Boss wrote:
Pretty sure it's still the case now, but they only fight for chaos forces now?

Imperial Beastmen are still a thing - Gor Half-Horn, Beastman Bounty Hunter is one.

Well…Abhumans are mutants. Specifically stable breeds of mutants which breed true.

What caused the initial mutation though is less clear.

With the background of the Kin, it’s entirely possible all Abhumans started out as deliberate genetic adaptation.

The why is by no means going to be consistent. For Kin, it’s to ensure they can be about their business and fulfil specific roles in the hostile environments they call home.

Beastmen? Well….who knows. Could’ve been a joke. Or a punishment. Could’ve been long forgotten Space Hippies who wanted to get back to nature only for it to go very wrong.

Unless I’m confusing my background, I think Beastmen are said to be more susceptible to spontaneous mutation than other Abhumans? Whether that’s due to a sloppy job done in the first place leaving them with compromised DNA, or a general penchance for chaos worship.

As with a lot of them, it could well have been some sort of Age of Strife thing that their original planet or system could Warped up a notch and they are now Beastmen.

I'm sure there was a little snifter of lore about the Imperial Beastmen seeing the Emperor as some sort of Primeval deity.

Kill Team Gallowfall gives us a ton of information on the Beastmen.

 Nevelon wrote:
They are abhuman, not mutants. So you don’t get spontaneous goat babies from normal human parents. But when two goat-people love eachother very much, they might have a kid.

Actually not true. Beastmen in 40k work very similar to their Fantasy counterparts. Gors can be born from unmutated parents, or a human can turn into one through Warp-exposure, with some even actively seeking out this transformation.

It seems out of most abhuman species, Beastmen are usually the result of Warp Exposure. I know their are other ways, but so far, most sources state warp exposure.

Like Ogryns and Ratlings, there also would have been those humans that evolved on worlds that turned them into Goat-People.

Hell, if the Fenrisian colonists devolved/evolved into Fenrisian Wolves through intense genetic manipulation, then other planets can have half-goats

Fallen Dragon by Peter F Hamilton has a great section on a world where the colonists made a collective decision to self-modify their genetic code to transition to various anthro-animal typologies. Cue conflict when the Earth-force types turn up and try to extract tribute

Its a cool book

 Segersgia wrote:
Kill Team Gallowfall gives us a ton of information on the Beastmen.

 Nevelon wrote:
They are abhuman, not mutants. So you don’t get spontaneous goat babies from normal human parents. But when two goat-people love eachother very much, they might have a kid.

Actually not true. Beastmen in 40k work very similar to their Fantasy counterparts. Gors can be born from unmutated parents, or a human can turn into one through Warp-exposure, with some even actively seeking out this transformation.

It seems out of most abhuman species, Beastmen are usually the result of Warp Exposure. I know their are other ways, but so far, most sources state warp exposure.

I’m mostly pulling from faded memories and the red RT compendium. More recent sources will take precedent over those.

I think one of the "meta" answers is that Citadel liked to re-use model moulds for 40k that were also fantasy.. Remember when you could run Fantasy harpies (sorry- FURIES) in CSM? Hell, Chaos daemons are still 1 to 1 across Sigmar to 40k.
Anyhoo- I think they need to expand on more little-known regiments in background and rules. IE: I'd like more than 5 sentences on the Felids and not have to resort to safe search when looking for fan-made art of them...

 Segersgia wrote:
Kill Team Gallowfall gives us a ton of information on the Beastmen.

 Nevelon wrote:
They are abhuman, not mutants. So you don’t get spontaneous goat babies from normal human parents. But when two goat-people love eachother very much, they might have a kid.

Actually not true. Beastmen in 40k work very similar to their Fantasy counterparts. Gors can be born from unmutated parents, or a human can turn into one through Warp-exposure, with some even actively seeking out this transformation.

It seems out of most abhuman species, Beastmen are usually the result of Warp Exposure. I know their are other ways, but so far, most sources state warp exposure.

I think there was always room for both methods to exist, but it is a shame they have retoconned beastmen to mostly be mutants rather than mostly abhumans.

That means they aren't the same as their Fantasy counterparts. Because Beastmen in Fantasy are a separate race, rather than being mutants.

 Olthannon wrote:
That means they aren't the same as their Fantasy counterparts. Because Beastmen in Fantasy are a separate race, rather than being mutants.

In fantasy they're both iirc. They originated when *something chaosy that I can't remember* happened, causing beast to mutate into man and man into beast. They can reproduce, but there are also examples of human couples birthing a mutant that then joins the beastmen (albeit as some kind of third-rate citizens; this was the origin story of one of their special characters). Mutation was a big theme in their codexes. I wouldn't bat an eye at a fantasy human turning into a full gor after some kind of ritual/chaotic exposure.

This is based on possibly outdated lore though, I dropped out of fantasy before the sigmarines landed.

As an aside, lorewise they were supposed to be far more varied than just anthropomorphic cows and goats, but since that's all gw made models for that's what they've become.

shortymcnostrill wrote:

 Olthannon wrote:
That means they aren't the same as their Fantasy counterparts. Because Beastmen in Fantasy are a separate race, rather than being mutants.

In fantasy they're both iirc. They originated when *something chaosy that I can't remember* happened, causing beast to mutate into man and man into beast. They can reproduce, but there are also examples of human couples birthing a mutant that then joins the beastmen (albeit as some kind of third-rate citizens; this was the origin story of one of their special characters). Mutation was a big theme in their codexes. I wouldn't bat an eye at a fantasy human turning into a full gor after some kind of ritual/chaotic exposure.

This is based on possibly outdated lore though, I dropped out of fantasy before the sigmarines landed.

As an aside, lorewise they were supposed to be far more varied than just anthropomorphic cows and goats, but since that's all gw made models for that's what they've become.

Yes in fantasy parents used to leave mutated children on the edge of beastmen forests. Some of them became adults within the tribe though most did not.

 Haighus wrote:

 Segersgia wrote:
Kill Team Gallowfall gives us a ton of information on the Beastmen.

 Nevelon wrote:
They are abhuman, not mutants. So you don’t get spontaneous goat babies from normal human parents. But when two goat-people love eachother very much, they might have a kid.

Actually not true. Beastmen in 40k work very similar to their Fantasy counterparts. Gors can be born from unmutated parents, or a human can turn into one through Warp-exposure, with some even actively seeking out this transformation.

It seems out of most abhuman species, Beastmen are usually the result of Warp Exposure. I know their are other ways, but so far, most sources state warp exposure.

I think there was always room for both methods to exist, but it is a shame they have retconned beastmen to mostly be mutants rather than mostly abhumans.

Woah... I never said they weren't abhumans. It hasn't been retconned as far as we know, though the Imperium has considered changing their status from Abhuman for the longest time now; like atleast 5 codices ago.

Remember, the difference between an abhuman and mutant or xenos in the Imperium is influenced by Imperial politics. The Kin are an offshoot of humanity, yet there are branches in the Imperium that consider them Xenos. Same with Beastmen; their association with the Warp and bestial appearance makes their inclusion as "second class citizens" that more problematic for the extreme puritanical branches of the Imperium.

Sort of.

An Abhuman is a stable breed of mutant. As in if two Beastmen or two Ratlings or two Ogryns love each other very much, the Imperial Stork will deliver a baby Beastmen, Ratling or Ogryn.

A mutant mutant is born with its deformity, or spontaneously mutates due to environment or warp exposure. And should it knock boots, any offspring won’t share the same mutations, and may, potentially, be born without said mutation.

Beastmen have pretty much always been very different in 40k and Fantasy. They only existed in 40k due to the original crossover in model ranges, but their origin was always different.

In 40k they were just abhumans, along with catgirls, ogryn, etc...

In Fantasy they are definitely aligned with chaos 100%. The first beastmen were made when Slannesh caused a bunch of depraved human nobles to have a hugging party during which they devolved into beastmen and continually made more beastmen who joined the hugging party and kept it going for a long time. Beastmen can reproduce with each other as well as normal humans, and in addition humans sometimes have beastmen children because chaos has corrupted everything to an extent. And those children are sometimes let go on the edge of forests instead of killed on sight where they can survive, or if the parents are chaos worshippers they might have a relationship with the local beastmen herd already.

Kinda gives me some Innsmouth vibes with how the beastmen operate around the more fringe elements of society.

Catgirls? Not seen these and I’m not sure I want to.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Beastmen have pretty much always been very different in 40k and Fantasy. They only existed in 40k due to the original crossover in model ranges, but their origin was always different.

In 40k they were just abhumans, along with catgirls, ogryn, etc...

In Fantasy they are definitely aligned with chaos 100%. The first beastmen were made when Slannesh caused a bunch of depraved human nobles to have a hugging party during which they devolved into beastmen and continually made more beastmen who joined the hugging party and kept it going for a long time. Beastmen can reproduce with each other as well as normal humans, and in addition humans sometimes have beastmen children because chaos has corrupted everything to an extent. And those children are sometimes let go on the edge of forests instead of killed on sight where they can survive, or if the parents are chaos worshippers they might have a relationship with the local beastmen herd already.

Kinda gives me some Innsmouth vibes with how the beastmen operate around the more fringe elements of society.

I don't know where you get the Slaanesh thing from. In Fantasy, the First Beastmen came to be thanks to the collapse of the Old Ones' Polar Gates; warping both humans and animals into mutated new forms. They aren't even as homogenous as the Tabletop makes us want to believe in Fantasy. Caprigors and Bovigors are what we often see because we have minis of them, but there are plenty others. Lakemen are a thing in Bretonnia, as well as the Ymir in Norsca, Apemen from the Southlands, or even the Tiger Headed Beastmen of Ind.

The New Kill Team book places the biology of 40k Beastmen much closer to their Fantasy counterparts. Turnskins are a thing in 40k now, as well as the human-born Gaves. They even share similar practices now, including raising abandoned Gaves into their herds, Herdstones, and even living within dark forests. As i said previously, in 40k, the Beastmen's status as Abhumans is constantly called into question by Imperial institutions, and in Fantasy, they are also described as mutants.

As a side note: I believe the reason for this renewal of lore has to do with the way Games Workshop wants to unify Chaos in all its settings. The rules (as paradoxical as nonsensicle as they be) of Chaos apply the same way in Fantasy, as they do in 40k and AoS.

I also believe this means that Beastmen aren't necessarily 100% alligned with Chaos in the settings. That was the main difference between 40k and Fantasy, and even then it wasn't that clear cut. AoS has atleast one example of Beastmen in the Realm of Hysh who lived a peaceful existence. In 40k, Beastmen are willing to worship the Imperial Cult. Kill Team also describes why some Beastmen join Chaos, as the Imperium often treats them worse than servitors. Even in Fantasy, there are grey areas. Beastwomen Does are described as timid and shy, while the Tiger Headed Beastmen are considered by the people of Ind as noble, but fickle.

Apologies if this skips too much into side-tangents.

 Segersgia wrote:
The Kin are an offshoot of humanity, yet there are branches in the Imperium that consider them Xenos.

The Kin actually prefer this. They are concerned that if the Imperium sees the Kin as an off-shoot of humanity, there will be a push to "reincorporate" the Kin into greater Humanity. But if the Imperium views the Kin as xenos, the Imperium will be more inclined to ignore the Kin except when there is direct competition between the two groups (which is rare, since the Kin occupy areas that are difficult for the Imperium to operate in).

Went back and looked. Seems you are correct. The orgy I was thinking of did happen, but it wasn't the origin of the first beastmen. It was just a particular event which created a bunch of beastmen.

Eumerin wrote:

 Segersgia wrote:
The Kin are an offshoot of humanity, yet there are branches in the Imperium that consider them Xenos.

The Kin actually prefer this. They are concerned that if the Imperium sees the Kin as an off-shoot of humanity, there will be a push to "reincorporate" the Kin into greater Humanity. But if the Imperium views the Kin as xenos, the Imperium will be more inclined to ignore the Kin except when there is direct competition between the two groups (which is rare, since the Kin occupy areas that are difficult for the Imperium to operate in).

I suspect their status depends on whether or not they’ve stuff to trade.

Got rare minerals and that to trade? Thank you, cousin!

Trying to muscle in on our rare minerals and that? Eurgh! Filthy thieving Xenos!